Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Liberty Prime wasn't tanking mini-nukes. For ****s sakes, not everything that has a mushroom cloud is some kind of ultimo-nuclear explosion.
Oh? So the Vertibird ordinance (Which is listed in both the GECK and Wikifiles as a Mini-Nike) is.... not a mini-nuke? Interesting....
Originally posted by ArtificialGloryDing ding ding.
A (very) low-yield nuclear bomb?
How low is "low", though? There are to my knowledge at least ten real life yields of nuclear weapons.
Which brings me to my point. People always go so balls deep over the Liberty Prime mini-nuke thing, but they don't understand how nuclear weaponry works. "Mini" literally means "smaller than the average". But there is no average yield for nuclear weapons, so how can you have a "mini" nuke compared to a "regular" nuke? You can't.
There's no such thing as a mini-nuke, there is only nuclear and non-nuclear, and just because something is nuclear does not mean that it automatically has a certain intensity.
Meaning, "Liberty Prime tanked a mini-nuke!" is a meaningless statement, and is not an indication of its durability in any way, shape, or form.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Ding ding ding.How low is "low", though? There are to my knowledge at least ten real life yields of nuclear weapons.
Which brings me to my point. People always go so balls deep over the Liberty Prime mini-nuke thing, but they don't understand how nuclear weaponry works. "Mini" literally means "smaller than the average". But there is no average yield for nuclear weapons, so how can you have a "mini" nuke compared to a "regular" nuke? You can't.
There's no such thing as a mini-nuke, there is only nuclear and non-nuclear, and just because something is nuclear does not mean that it automatically has a certain intensity.
Meaning, "Liberty Prime tanked a mini-nuke!" is a meaningless statement, and is not an indication of its durability in any way, shape, or form.
A mini nuke is basically the most powerful explosion you'll get from a weapon found in the Fallout universe. There are few explosives that have more power that are available to either side of this fight. So it IS a good representation. NCR can throw whatever they want at it, it's not going to stop it.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
My point was that there is no such thing as a mini-nuke and being hit by a nuclear explosion in as of itself is not indicative of any durability limits. The fact that the mini-nuke in FA3 is the strongest weapon in the game has no bearing on that.
There's also no such thing as a lazer gun. Or a tesla canon. Since when are we applying realistic laws to a fantasy game?
In the Fallout universe there IS such thing as a mini nuke.
Originally posted by TacDaveyOnly by actual feats, the destruction of Boulder City is far superior to what destroyed Liberty Prime, your own fanwank means little. 🙂
A mini nuke is basically the most powerful explosion you'll get from a weapon found in the Fallout universe. There are few explosives that have more power that are available to either side of this fight. So it IS a good representation. NCR can throw whatever they want at it, it's not going to stop it.
Oh, and House's super awesome Lucky 38 laser cannons I guess.
DSZ, I will answer your word-quilt (I assume, have not really looked at it) later, or maybe I will not. It is so hard to say.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
How low is "low", though? There are to my knowledge at least ten real life yields of nuclear weapons.
The very fact that your trying to compare a known miniature nuclear weapon fired from a MANPAD to a full scale actual Fatman (IE: like the one in Megaton) is silly. Nobody here ever said that even the Experimental MIRV compares to the Megaton bomb.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Which brings me to my point. People always go so balls deep over the Liberty Prime mini-nuke thing, but they don't understand how nuclear weaponry works. "Mini" literally means "smaller than the average". But there is no average yield for nuclear weapons, so how can you have a "mini" nuke compared to a "regular" nuke? You can't.
Your comparing several dozen tonnes of TNT sized blasts (For the Mini-Nuke) to a full scale Nuke detonation (25 Megatonnes at the very least).
Are you going to educate us on how nuclear weaponry works in Fallout now? because it seems to me that your trying to apply a real world context to it. There is none. Fallout is a fantasy, with fantasy weapons.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
There's no such thing as a mini-nuke, there is only nuclear and non-nuclear, and just because something is nuclear does not mean that it automatically has a certain intensity.
Thermonuclear detonation, no matter the size, has a flashpoint of tens of thousands of degrees, about as much as the surface temperatures of some stars. it is this factor plus the shockwave that does most of the bombs damage. The radiation is an aftereffect. Now obviously, the bigger the detonation, the larger area the flashpoint covers and the larger the shockwave. However, that doesn't explain Liberty Prime's ability to shrug off direct hits by these mini-bombs, he'd be right inside the flashpoint, and yet, nothing. This also says something for direct missile hits, countless laser and plasma shots harmlessly plinking off him.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Meaning, "Liberty Prime tanked a mini-nuke!" is a meaningless statement, and is not an indication of its durability in any way, shape, or form.
Already explained. A smaller nuclear detonation is still a nuclear detonation. And again; nobody said he could tank an actual full scaled nuclear blast, given what DID eventually down him had the same effect on Megaton as what a full scaled nuke did.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
My point was that there is no such thing as a mini-nuke and being hit by a nuclear explosion in as of itself is not indicative of any durability limits. The fact that the mini-nuke in FA3 is the strongest weapon in the game has no bearing on that.
Oh? so tanking a weapon that has set limits and feats is suddenly inadmissable because you cant figure out how it works? Wierd.... And I thought it was because "He didn't tank mini-nukes" a few posts ago...
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Can you show me a mini-nuke in the game? I am aware of a weapon that is called a mini-nuke, but I have not see an actual mini-nuke.
Here are the Mini-Nuke and the Fatman Launcher that fires them.
YouTube video
And this is how the weapon is used in-game.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Only by actual feats, the destruction of Boulder City is far superior to what destroyed Liberty Prime, your own fanwank means little. 🙂
Only we never see the destruction of Boulder City, and so trying to draw up a comparative is utterly meaningless. Especially considering what eventually destroyed Prime had the power to destroy Megaton in a fasion only a full scale Nuclear Blast could match. It leveled the Citadel to an extent unmached by anything else in the game, and it mission killed the Base Crawler. Hell man, the Bradley-Hercules Sat Missiles make ARCHIMEDES look like shit, considering the Satelite Laser didn't even damage the Solar Panels when it was set on automatic to level the NCR at Helios One.
Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh, and House's super awesome Lucky 38 laser cannons I guess.
Which are effectively featless exept for shooting down Bombs and Missiles something today's tech is capable of doing.
Originally posted by NemeBro
DSZ, I will answer your word-quilt (I assume, have not really looked at it) later, or maybe I will not. It is so hard to say.
I'll be waiting.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
[B]The very fact that your trying to compare a known miniature nuclear weapon fired from a MANPAD to a full scale actual Fatman (IE: like the one in Megaton) is silly. Nobody here ever said that even the Experimental MIRV compares to the Megaton bomb.
I never said it did or didn't, that's inconsequential to my point.
Your comparing several dozen tonnes of TNT sized blasts (For the Mini-Nuke) to a full scale Nuke detonation (25 Megatonnes at the very least).
I'm not making any comparisons at all.
Are you going to educate us on how nuclear weaponry works in Fallout now? because it seems to me that your trying to apply a real world context to it. There is none. Fallout is a fantasy, with fantasy weapons.
Thermonuclear detonation, no matter the size, has a flashpoint of tens of thousands of degrees, about as much as the surface temperatures of some stars. it is this factor plus the shockwave that does most of the bombs damage. The radiation is an aftereffect. Now obviously, the bigger the detonation, the larger area the flashpoint covers and the larger the shockwave. However, that doesn't explain Liberty Prime's ability to shrug off direct hits by these mini-bombs, he'd be right inside the flashpoint, and yet, nothing. This also says something for direct missile hits, countless laser and plasma shots harmlessly plinking off him.
Absolutely.
Already explained. A smaller nuclear detonation is still a nuclear detonation.
I needn't go any further, since you agree with me then, I guess.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I never said it did or didn't, that's inconsequential to my point.
You said you can't find a real world equivalent, or can explain the weapon, therefore it's invalid.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I'm not making any comparisons at all.
But you did, you made the comparison on the basis that the Mini-Nuke does not jack up to Megatonne yields like a real nuke would and therefore it's featless against Liberty Prime, despite the fact that even though the Fatman is nowhere near real nuke yields, it is by far the strongets weapon available to the player (And NPCs by extension). The entire point of that feat was to demonstrate that even if the NCR was better equipped, it wouldn't mean anything against Prime.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
So? That doesn't mean that I'm wrong.
In the context of the debate? Yes it is. You cannot apply physics to something that does not exist, is not testable, falsifiable and makes no predictions. That makes the fatman Launcher and it's ammo Science Fiction, not Scientific Theory.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Absolutely.
If you agree, then what was your point?
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
I needn't go any further, since you agree with me then, I guess.
Again, why would you downplay a feat if you agree with the specifics? The entire premise was that Prime withstands Mini-Nukes, not full scale ones. And Mini-Nukes being the absolute best that the NCR can throw at him?
Now, I understand that you had a issue with some people reveling in the fact that rime withstands mini-nukes, and whoever they where, pretty mch used that feat to make him an invincible machine-god on par with the likes of Optimus Prime and the Night Bringer, but that issue had nothing to do with me, and have seen far better feats in other media.
Now that the New Vegas DLC is done, I feel I should bump this, just to point out that, thanks to The Courier having Big MT at his back and call, the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood can kiss its technological advantages goodbye.
And that The Courier would hand The Lone Wanderer his ass to him on a silver platter.
Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Now that the New Vegas DLC is done, I feel I should bump this, just to point out that, thanks to The Courier having Big MT at his back and call, the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood can kiss its technological advantages goodbye.And that The Courier would hand The Lone Wanderer his ass to him on a silver platter.
Big Mt Tech vs Zeta tech? Surely you jest sir! estahuh