Capital Wasteland Brotherhood of Steel vs NCR

Originally posted by Nephthys
You mean the old, rich assholes who never want to leave their tower? Yes, clearly they can be recruited.

And the mercenary troops that protect them?

That reminds me, Reily's rangers, Outcast reintegration, and leftover Talons are also options.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'll give you that one. Though iirc the Brotherhood doesnn't recruit ghouls. Still only 20ish people.

Owen is more open-minded than those BOS from the west. Oh, and then there's the case with Roy Phillips, if he takes over Tenenny Tower too...

Originally posted by Nephthys
The fortifications are irrelevent since your OP said that it was the Brotherhood attacking. Big deal, Hoover Dam purifies water as well. Either that or by New Vagas Project Purity has somehow purified all of America. And I think it would be disarsterous for them to get a flood of volunteers anyway since Capital Wasteland is near barren and they have no way of producing food other than raiding supermarkets. They lack the farms the NCR has. The Brotherhood just can't sustain much of an army. Not even mentioning that I doubt they have 50+ sets of extra Power Armor.

What is the first action before engaging an act of war Neph? Answer = the preperation of defences against enemy retaliation.

You made this about land size earlier. I countered, the CW is not as big as the equivelant of 2 to 3 states worth of land, but the CW BOS know it well.

The Dam does NOT purify water, at all. I would need a source for that, since Hoover is a hydroelectric dam that has nothing to do with water purification.

It was stated that the BOS found a cache of Power Armors beneath the Pentagon that would last indefinitely. That shoots that down.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Why aren't they fighting mutants anymore? And you're absolutely right they'll 'draw' from those places. Their recruitment rating won't be that high. If the Capital Wasteland is really as safe as you make it sound, why bother joining the Brotherhood?

The muties are receding because by the time of Broken Steel, they are out of FEV and cannot continue to replenish their numbers as they once did. That and the Brotherhood now have access to far better tech, recources and supplies due to Adams being captured.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, thats only what we see in the game in Vagas. In the motherland they have actual Power Armor. Vault City has access to alot of Pre-War tech, Power Armor included.

It was stated that they can't produce new ones, hence why they salvage from dead Paladins. They don't have the schematics for it, the Brotherhood took them (along with a large bunch of other weapons and equipment schematics) from Mariposa before they left it for Lost Hills.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You made the thread the NCR vs the ECBOS, don't blame me if you didn't think about how massive the NCR really is. If they deploy even 1% of the numbers they had 100 years ago they'll still outnumber the Brotherhood by well over 50-1. And LOL! Its directly stated in the game that Lyons recruits have a shockingly bad survival rating.

That was due to the mutants bleeding them dry, thats not a problem now, plus their tech has been improved due to captured Enclave resources.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also bullshit on Gunneys training being superior to Vetern Ranger training. Vet Rangers are the best of the best, and more than a match for a Brotherhood member in Power Armor.

Heheheheh, Proof?

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Oh, and then there's the case with Roy Phillips, if he takes over Tenenny Tower too...

He kills Daring Dashwood. The Brotherhood would never accept an individual who committed such a crime against humanity. uhuh

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
He kills Daring Dashwood. The Brotherhood would never accept an individual who committed such a crime against humanity. uhuh

You mean the same Daring Dashwood that was solely responsible for the enslavement of Rockopolis? dgrin

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
You mean the same Daring Dashwood that was solely responsible for the enslavement of Rockopolis? dgrin

It was an honest mistake. uhuh

And reply to my points on the other page. uhuh

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Heheheheh, Proof?

1N3sEfokID0&feature=relmfu

OWNED!

Though on a more mature but still correct page, the Rangers just are the superiorly trained force. The Brotherhood relies on their Power Armor while the Rangers are just balls to the walls tough as nails and the best trained force we've seen so far in Fallout. These guys scare the shit out of the Legion for ****s sake.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
iirc, the deathray ceased working once you blew up the other mothership.

no, you just don't have a reason to keep using it. The deathray not firing is game restriction. There was nothing stated anywhere I can find about the 2nd Death Ray no longer functioning (the one fired from the bridge)

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Given that it was constructed with tech at Big MT, holorifles could likely be mass produced with the matter manipulation tech and the NCR's resources, and I don't think I need to tell you the holorifle is superior to all the Zeta weaponry save the alien blaster.

Uhm, Elijah built the Holorifle, and gave the sole working model to the Courier, whom had to upgrade it 3 times in order for it to come anywhere close to the levels your talking about. I don't remember finding anything reguarding Holorifles being produced at Big Mt, but I know Elijah found the tech to build one there...

That said, doesn't NCR have a really big bias for ballistic weapons as a default anyway?

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Well, considering that most of the labs and such are either located underground or in fortified buildings, and that they would have to find Big MT first, I sincerely doubt that's a plausible strategy.

Unless they are packing a full energy dome like the commonwealth, I doubt that. They teleported a safe from underground, and a footlocker from a fortified structure.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Not really. Though the Lone Wanderer can get 5 more perks then the Courier, the Courier has better stats, and generally much better equipment. Plus, considering the ending of The Lonesome Road, which is by far and away a more hostile environment then anything in Fallout 3, I think it just goes to show just how much of a BAMF The Courier is.

Better stats? And better equipment only due to the game progression, thats like me saying the equipment in Oblivion is better than that in Morrowind. and we both know thats false.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Their soldiers are also noticeably super human, and make great use of fear/ psychological warfare tactics, sabotage, lack of morality, and such evens out the NCR's superior tech.

They are physically stronger than NCR men, but not superhumanly so.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
It was an honest mistake. uhuh

He was seduced by the dark side! jugg666happy

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
And reply to my points on the other page. uhuh

Relax, I didn't even see your ninja post till now! ninjafox

Originally posted by Nephthys
1N3sEfokID0&feature=relmfu

OWNED!

Oh wow, game stats! w00tshnone

Originally posted by Nephthys
Though on a more mature but still correct page, the Rangers just are the superiorly trained force. The Brotherhood relies on their Power Armor while the Rangers are just balls to the walls tough as nails and the best trained force we've seen so far in Fallout. These guys scare the shit out of the Legion for ****s sake.

You have proof that ranger Training is superior to Britherhood training I assume? because the brotherhood doesn't just use power armors... I'm pretty sure Recon Armor is also widely used.

And scare the shit out of the Legion? Are you serious? raise_eyebrow

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
no, you just don't have a reason to keep using it. The deathray not firing is game restriction. There was nothing stated anywhere I can find about the 2nd Death Ray no longer functioning (the one fired from the bridge)

Uhm, Elijah built the Holorifle, and gave the sole working model to the Courier, whom had to upgrade it 3 times in order for it to come anywhere close to the levels your talking about. I don't remember finding anything reguarding Holorifles being produced at Big Mt, but I know Elijah found the tech to build one there...

That said, doesn't NCR have a really big bias for ballistic weapons as a default anyway?

Unless they are packing a full energy dome like the commonwealth, I doubt that. They teleported a safe from underground, and a footlocker from a fortified structure.

Better stats? And better equipment only due to the game progression, thats like me saying the equipment in Oblivion is better than that in Morrowind. and we both know thats false.

They are physically stronger than NCR men, but not superhumanly so.

He was seduced by the dark side! jugg666happy

I thought it was because they sustained heavy damage from the other ship.

Given that The Think Tank is the greatest collection of scientific minds in the Fallout verse, and The Courier already has a working prototype, it would only make sense, given the NCR's resources and the one year of prep, that Big MT could reproduce the holorifle with its matter manipulation tech. Same goes for pretty much most of the technology The Courier has. Including the superior Advanced Enclave Power Armor.

I've never really come across the NCR having any sort of bias, but I sincerely doubt the NCR would turn down the offer for a cheaply produced, highly advanced weapon that makes their current guns look like peashooters.

Kay. Though, they would still have to actually find the Big MT facilities, and they would have to now what they're looking for. The matter manipulation tech, for example, looks like vending machines. Though, given just how advanced Big MT is, it would certainly not be out of the question to create an energy shield, especially if it has access to the NCR's resources.

The Courier has the potential to develop his skills further, not counting skill books and all that. And the equipment the Courier has is not so much better, as it is more advanced. Like the Advanced Enclave Power Armor, the Holorifle, ect.

The soldiers from Caesar's Legion are capable of fighting and killing Super Mutants and armored Brotherhood members in combat. I would believe so.

Lies, Daring Dashwood is a paragon of good. uhuh

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
I thought it was because they sustained heavy damage from the other ship.

I never heard that anywhere... Plus, they had shields. If the LW played it right, he could defeat the other ship with no damage whatsoever.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Given that The Think Tank is the greatest collection of scientific minds in the Fallout verse, and The Courier already has a working prototype, it would only make sense, given the NCR's resources and the one year of prep, that Big MT could reproduce the holorifle with its matter manipulation tech. Same goes for pretty much most of the technology The Courier has. Including the superior Advanced Enclave Power Armor.

They'd still need energy weapons training on par with Gunney's training to even come close to having that kind of effectiveness. You can't develop a training regiment, prototype and test a new energy weapon, produce and deploy them to an entire army the size of NCR's in one year, especially if they prove as incompetent with frontier logistics as they did against the Legion.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
I've never really come across the NCR having any sort of bias, but I sincerely doubt the NCR would turn down the offer for a cheaply produced, highly advanced weapon that makes their current guns look like peashooters.

They do, especially in New Vegas. Even against the Mojave BOS, they essentially used a human wave to overcome them rather than equip their forces with Pulse weapons they had back in FO2. Instead they sent their soldiers into a meat grinder.

That said, there is a difference bitween saying no to advanced weapons, and being able to train and equip their entire front line with them, at the very best you could say one soldier per squad would have an energy weapon.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Kay. Though, they would still have to actually find the Big MT facilities, and they would have to now what they're looking for. The matter manipulation tech, for example, looks like vending machines. Though, given just how advanced Big MT is, it would certainly not be out of the question to create an energy shield, especially if it has access to the NCR's resources.

They are advanced, ut not as advanced as the Commonwealth, plus Big Mt has had it's own intercene warfare they have had to get over. besides, the Sierra Madre is another source of those vending machines and holograms. and spotting that cloud from orbit would not be hard.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
The Courier has the potential to develop his skills further, not counting skill books and all that. And the equipment the Courier has is not so much better, as it is more advanced. Like the Advanced Enclave Power Armor, the Holorifle, ect.

Compared to Advanced Mk2 Enclave Power Armor, Mk2 Tesla Armor and Hellfire PAs? And Firelance, plus unlimited Atomisers, Destabilisers and Drone Cannons/reprogrammed Drones?

Their skills are exacly the same, with the Courier getting Survival, and the Lone Wanderer having sparate skills for Big & Small Guns. Besides, some of the LW's perks are much much better.

While we are on the subject of tech, lets cut the red tape here. In 5 years with Enclave tech and resources, The Pitt and Zeta's Epoxy, repairing Prime would take only a few months, not years, same with the Mission Disabled Base Crawler at Adams. NCR has nothing that could stand against those, short of perhaps helios One, and that is if the Courier chose to activate it and NOT fry the NCR with it. (personally I would rather have redirected power in an even distribution to help unlock "For Auld Lang Syne", and this gives NCR Remnant Support)

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
The soldiers from Caesar's Legion are capable of fighting and killing Super Mutants and armored Brotherhood members in combat. I would believe so.

Not consistently though, and err, the V87 mutants are stated to be stronger than the Mariposa ones. especially when we dive into Overlord and Behemoth territory.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Lies, Daring Dashwood is a paragon of good. uhuh

Just like Maxwel Smart eh? sneer

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I never heard that anywhere... Plus, they had shields. If the LW played it right, he could defeat the other ship with no damage whatsoever.

They'd still need energy weapons training on par with Gunney's training to even come close to having that kind of effectiveness. You can't develop a training regiment, prototype and test a new energy weapon, produce and deploy them to an entire army the size of NCR's in one year, especially if they prove as incompetent with frontier logistics as they did against the Legion.

They do, especially in New Vegas. Even against the Mojave BOS, they essentially used a human wave to overcome them rather than equip their forces with Pulse weapons they had back in FO2. Instead they sent their soldiers into a meat grinder.

That said, there is a difference bitween saying no to advanced weapons, and being able to train and equip their entire front line with them, at the very best you could say one soldier per squad would have an energy weapon.

They are advanced, ut not as advanced as the Commonwealth, plus Big Mt has had it's own intercene warfare they have had to get over. besides, the Sierra Madre is another source of those vending machines and holograms. and spotting that cloud from orbit would not be hard.

Compared to Advanced Mk2 Enclave Power Armor, Mk2 Tesla Armor and Hellfire PAs? And Firelance, plus unlimited Atomisers, Destabilisers and Drone Cannons/reprogrammed Drones?

Their skills are exacly the same, with the Courier getting Survival, and the Lone Wanderer having sparate skills for Big & Small Guns. Besides, some of the LW's perks are much much better.

While we are on the subject of tech, lets cut the red tape here. In 5 years with Enclave tech and resources, The Pitt and Zeta's Epoxy, repairing Prime would take only a few months, not years, same with the Mission Disabled Base Crawler at Adams. NCR has nothing that could stand against those, short of perhaps helios One, and that is if the Courier chose to activate it and NOT fry the NCR with it. (personally I would rather have redirected power in an even distribution to help unlock "For Auld Lang Syne", and this gives NCR Remnant Support)

Not consistently though, and err, the V87 mutants are stated to be stronger than the Mariposa ones. especially when we dive into Overlord and Behemoth territory.

Just like Maxwel Smart eh? sneer

Kay. But being the idealist good guys they are, the Brotherhood would never use blow up an entire nation anyway. biscuits

The NCR could just hire the Hidden Valley Brotherhood to help train NCR soldiers for that, in exchange for tech. 131

I wasn't aware that the pulse guns could be produced for virtually nothing. But, asides from that, the NCR does have good leaders, like Hanlon.

Well, equipping them is no problem, since with the vending machines, the NCR could easily supply all their soldiers, but, yeah, it probably would make more sense that a smaller amount of soldiers be outfitted.

I wasn't aware the Commonwealth possessed matter manipulation technology, or remote teleportation. And the Sierra Madre is not an option. Asides from the fact the Brotherhood would still have to know exactly how the NCR is creating its supplies, since they're not going to guess that they're vending machines, the ones in the Sierra Madre are locked to the coins you find there, whereas The Think Tank, being the creators, could easily modify their own to take much more common material.

Yes, actually. The Mk2 armor in Fallout 3 is stated to be inferior to the Advanced Power Armor the Enclave had in Fallout 2. Furthermore, when comparing DT, Hellfire Armor is the same as T-51b, suggesting that they are about the same as far as damage protection goes. I don't think I need to tell you that the Advanced Power Armor is superior to the T-51b. Asides from that, yes, common weapons like the LAER rifle in Big MT are generally superior to that you find on Zeta. Firelance is the one factor I can't say for certain the Courier has an advantage over, though the Courier has his own assortment of powerful weaponry, like the Sprtl-Wood 9700, which makes Vengeance look like a joke.

Having a higher level suggests the Courier has more potential, and really? iirc, the perks were relatively the same as in 3, when all the DLC was introduced, except now more varied. And, as far as actual lore goes, the Courier generally seems stronger, like having his body upgraded when going to Big MT, or being so badass that creatures that hunt deathclaws actually avoid him.

Actually, the NCR does, in fact, have a solution to those. The Lonesome Road, as you may well know, is home to a large stockpile of nuclear arms. It is not beyond reason that the Courier, being loyal to the NCR, would alert the military to its presence, and help extract those arms.

biscuits

Though, wasn't the Basecrawler, like, completely destroyed?

Still though, being capable of beating down super mutants is impressive none the less. A single one was capable of scaring the piss out of the Fiends to the point they didn't like attacking a settlement.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Kay. But being the idealist good guys they are, the Brotherhood would never use blow up an entire nation anyway. biscuits

Nobody said they had to use full powered shots... 131

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
The NCR could just hire the Hidden Valley Brotherhood to help train NCR soldiers for that, in exchange for tech. 131

You really think the Hidden Valley Chapter would side with the NCR over their own? huhu

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
I wasn't aware that the pulse guns could be produced for virtually nothing. But, asides from that, the NCR does have good leaders, like Hanlon.

No, but they had the tech, they had access, and they had the funds, and yet still they didn't deploy them even though they knew they where up against the Brotherhood, and experienced against the Brotherhood as Colonel Moore was stated to be, should have known better.

Whom get overwritten by absolute bungholes like General Oliver and President Kimbal, Cheif Hanlon is outranked.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Well, equipping them is no problem, since with the vending machines, the NCR could easily supply all their soldiers, but, yeah, it probably would make more sense that a smaller amount of soldiers be outfitted.

I was reffering to actual propper deployment of the weapons, not just physical production.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
I wasn't aware the Commonwealth possessed matter manipulation technology, or remote teleportation. And the Sierra Madre is not an option. Asides from the fact the Brotherhood would still have to know exactly how the NCR is creating its supplies, since they're not going to guess that they're vending machines, the ones in the Sierra Madre are locked to the coins you find there, whereas The Think Tank, being the creators, could easily modify their own to take much more common material.

Scouting and infiltration works well in that case. And the Sierra Madre would still be an option, as there are many of the machines there. Reverse engineering is what the Brotherhood does, and they do it well.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Yes, actually. The Mk2 armor in Fallout 3 is stated to be inferior to the Advanced Power Armor the Enclave had in Fallout 2.

Actually, APAMKII has DR, not DT, which uses an entirely different formula of damage resistance. However, in fluff, APAMKII is the superior model by far. And since Game Restriction is on the table, I'll side with the fluff.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Furthermore, when comparing DT, Hellfire Armor is the same as T-51b, suggesting that they are about the same as far as damage protection goes. I don't think I need to tell you that the Advanced Power Armor is superior to the T-51b.

Again, fluff points to a different conclusion, And if I may add, the damage resistance of T-51B was due to it's extreme rarity on FO3, whereas it's damage threshold drops by half that in FONV. I took that as a game statistic anomaly, which is another reason to use fluff instead of gaming stats.

That said...

Text From The Fallout Wiki
It is the peak of Enclave power armor research, boasting to be the best model of power armor thus far that has been revealed. The duraframe design allows it to provide more protection than any other model of power armor in the Fallout universe. This armor is the most advanced model of power armor in the Fallout universe, due mostly to its superior protection, fire resistance, and duraframe design.

ALL Enclave Power Armor is superior to T-51b canonically. If you really want to go statistics for DT, the APAMKII that you can console cheat to get in NV is actually superior to the T-51b in the game by having a DT of 32, and that is 7 points better than T-51b and 2 better than Remnants PA. This fact pretty much wins the point for me. hmph

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Asides from that, yes, common weapons like the LAER rifle in Big MT are generally superior to that you find on Zeta. Firelance is the one factor I can't say for certain the Courier has an advantage over, though the Courier has his own assortment of powerful weaponry, like the Sprtl-Wood 9700, which makes Vengeance look like a joke.

The LAER does equal damage to the Disintegrator, and it deteriorates almost twice as fast per shot. and the Desintegrator is common on Zeta, the LW can conceivably collect up to 200 of them alone...

The Sprtl-Wood is as unique as the Firelance...

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Having a higher level suggests the Courier has more potential, and really? iirc, the perks were relatively the same as in 3, when all the DLC was introduced, except now more varied. And, as far as actual lore goes, the Courier generally seems stronger, like having his body upgraded when going to Big MT, or being so badass that creatures that hunt deathclaws actually avoid him.

A standard perk makes the LW a friggin Cyborg... 313_rage

And the Almost Perfect perk combined with the bobble heads makes him beyond the Courier stat wise.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Actually, the NCR does, in fact, have a solution to those. The Lonesome Road, as you may well know, is home to a large stockpile of nuclear arms. It is not beyond reason that the Courier, being loyal to the NCR, would alert the military to its presence, and help extract those arms.

You mean the same nukes that you either launch at NCR,The legions home bases, or sabotage altogether?

Besides, The Satcomm Aray has those as well, and IIRC one of the forts (Probably Constantine) has a sizable arsenal of nukes as well...

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Though, wasn't the Basecrawler, like, completely destroyed?

No, if you look at the wreckage, the actual crawler is still intact, only the sat uplink on top was wiped out, and that can be rebuilt.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Still though, being capable of beating down super mutants is impressive none the less. A single one was capable of scaring the piss out of the Fiends to the point they didn't like attacking a settlement.

And yet the CW Brotherhood where facing off the stronger variety and where fighting pretty evenly.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Nobody said they had to use full powered shots... 131

You really think the Hidden Valley Chapter would side with the NCR over their own? huhu

No, but they had the tech, they had access, and they had the funds, and yet still they didn't deploy them even though they knew they where up against the Brotherhood, and experienced against the Brotherhood as Colonel Moore was stated to be, should have known better.

Whom get overwritten by absolute bungholes like General Oliver and President Kimbal, Cheif Hanlon is outranked.

I was reffering to actual propper deployment of the weapons, not just physical production.

Scouting and infiltration works well in that case. And the Sierra Madre would still be an option, as there are many of the machines there. Reverse engineering is what the Brotherhood does, and they do it well.

Actually, APAMKII has DR, not DT, which uses an entirely different formula of damage resistance. However, in fluff, APAMKII is the superior model by far. And since Game Restriction is on the table, I'll side with the fluff.

Again, fluff points to a different conclusion, And if I may add, the damage resistance of T-51B was due to it's extreme rarity on FO3, whereas it's damage threshold drops by half that in FONV. I took that as a game statistic anomaly, which is another reason to use fluff instead of gaming stats.

That said...

ALL Enclave Power Armor is superior to T-51b canonically. If you really want to go statistics for DT, the APAMKII that you can console cheat to get in NV is actually superior to the T-51b in the game by having a DT of 32, and that is 7 points better than T-51b and 2 better than Remnants PA. This fact pretty much wins the point for me. hmph

The LAER does equal damage to the Disintegrator, and it deteriorates almost twice as fast per shot. and the Desintegrator is common on Zeta, the LW can conceivably collect up to 200 of them alone...

The Sprtl-Wood is as unique as the Firelance...

A standard perk makes the LW a friggin Cyborg... 313_rage

And the Almost Perfect perk combined with the bobble heads makes him beyond the Courier stat wise.

You mean the same nukes that you either launch at NCR,The legions home bases, or sabotage altogether?

Besides, The Satcomm Aray has those as well, and IIRC one of the forts (Probably Constantine) has a sizable arsenal of nukes as well...

No, if you look at the wreckage, the actual crawler is still intact, only the sat uplink on top was wiped out, and that can be rebuilt.

And yet the CW Brotherhood where facing off the stronger variety and where fighting pretty evenly.

The Brotherhood doesn't know how to properly work it though anyway.

Yes, considering that's the reason why the Outcasts shoot the CW Brotherhood on site, and if the Hidden Valley Chapter were to betray the NCR, they would be completely annihilated.

Except now they have that OMA who won them New Vegas that isn't a complete retard. ermmvin
And Oliver isn't so much as incompetent as he is a massive douchebag. And sounds like a 12 year old.

Well, they can give the things out like candy, since they will never run out of supplies. Since the vending machines mean that the NCR can supply itself with food, armor, ammunition, guns, ect. indefinitely. So, I doubt there would be much trouble deploying them.

Lol. Any scouts would that come even close to Big MT would be terminated by dem robo-scorpions. With extreme prejudice. And, you would have to prove the Brotherhood is intelligent and capable enough to reverse engineer ****ing matter manipulation tech. Though they'd still have to guess the vending machines are what's supplying the NCR.

That seems weird, but okie dokie.

The NCR just captures suits off Brotherhood members and sends them to the Think Tank to reverse engineer and improve upon. 131

They both have the same damage, but the LAER has better DPS. And with matter manipulation tech, the LAER could be mass-produced for relatively nothing.

Well, given that it's sold by the Van-Graffs, that would imply there's more then one. Regardless though, it's a gun that still gives The Courier an edge.

The Courier's upgrades are actually detailed though. uhuh
And what the hell kind of Mary Sue perk is that?

Ulysses explains that the Lonesome Road is saturated with nuclear weapons, beyond the ones he planned to launch at wherever. Both actual atomic weapons, and the smaller ones that can be detonated with a laser.

And weren't the SATCOM missiles used by the LW already? I know there was certainly nothing implied in Fallout 3 that suggests it has an arsenal of actual city-busting missiles similar to that in the Lonesome Road.

I'd have to see scans, since I haven't played Fallout 3 in years, though I do plan to play it again soon. mmm

Yeah, but the Brotherhood members have the advantage of wearing armor and having superior weaponry lol. The Legion isn't so fortunate.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
The Brotherhood doesn't know how to properly work it though anyway.

5 years of prep says otherwise, if Somah, Tecorien , and the LW could get the thing working in 5 minutes, then the Brotherhood can shoot a 1 hole in a coin with 5 years worth of time to play with it.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Yes, considering that's the reason why the Outcasts shoot the CW Brotherhood on site, and if the Hidden Valley Chapter were to betray the NCR, they would be completely annihilated.

Outcast reintegration is a high possability since post Broken Steel, Lyons pretty much completed the Western Brotherhood's objective. And Lyons wasn't declared an enemy by the council, he was still recognized as the head of that chapter. The only thing they did was determine that of he was going to pursue his own objectives, he would do so alone. Now, he has access to a tech boom not seen by any chapter since Mariposa, and you REALY think the Hidden Valley chapter will turn down Lyons in their state?

Only if they comitted the betrayal before Lyons arrives.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Except now they have that OMA who won them New Vegas that isn't a complete retard. ermmvin
And Oliver isn't so much as incompetent as he is a massive douchebag. And sounds like a 12 year old.

Except that the CWBOS have their own OMA whom is every bit of a BAMF and is hax.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Well, they can give the things out like candy, since they will never run out of supplies. Since the vending machines mean that the NCR can supply itself with food, armor, ammunition, guns, ect. indefinitely. So, I doubt there would be much trouble deploying them.

Deployment requires that every soldier accesses that machine, which takes time. And on top of this, the NCR loves their paperwork. Afterall, with such a resource, supplies would get stolen or go missing by the truckload and end up in bad hands if it wasn't monitored correctly.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Lol. Any scouts would that come even close to Big MT would be terminated by dem robo-scorpions. With extreme prejudice. And, you would have to prove the Brotherhood is intelligent and capable enough to reverse engineer ****ing matter manipulation tech. Though they'd still have to guess the vending machines are what's supplying the NCR.

Right, because the Courier, Ulysess, Christine and Elijah where terminated with extreme prejudice, and 2 of them are Brotherhood trained, amirite? superm

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
The NCR just captures suits off Brotherhood members and sends them to the Think Tank to reverse engineer and improve upon. 131

Heh, they don't have the Duraframe data. Plus, they don't have Zeta tech. bmhm

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
They both have the same damage, but the LAER has better DPS. And with matter manipulation tech, the LAER could be mass-produced for relatively nothing.

The LAER breaks twice as fast, and anyone with the Xenotech Expert perk (Which is stupidly simple to obtain BTW) increases their damage by 20%, And Zeta replicates the weapons as well.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Well, given that it's sold by the Van-Graffs, that would imply there's more then one. Regardless though, it's a gun that still gives The Courier an edge.

It is a unique GRA addon... And against Firelance's impossibly high critical chance, the LW pulverises even behemoths in 1 to 2 shots with the thing.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
The Courier's upgrades are actually detailed though. uhuh
And what the hell kind of Mary Sue perk is that?

The kind that got added in Broken Steel. it is hax, but it is well beyond the Courier. iorilmao

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Ulysses explains that the Lonesome Road is saturated with nuclear weapons, beyond the ones he planned to launch at wherever. Both actual atomic weapons, and the smaller ones that can be detonated with a laser.

You then need to prove that the NCR can construct and launch those weapons... Because from what I remember of LR, it only had the warheads, not a whole missile. And didn't the Courier sabotage the launch systems entirely?

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
And weren't the SATCOM missiles used by the LW already? I know there was certainly nothing implied in Fallout 3 that suggests it has an arsenal of actual city-busting missiles similar to that in the Lonesome Road.

The Bradley Hercules was used twice, it still has at least 2 more salvos. It can wipe out the Citadel in a way only a full scale Megaton Nuke could match. and te SATCOM Array is independet of the Bradley Hercules.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
I'd have to see scans, since I haven't played Fallout 3 in years, though I do plan to play it again soon. mmm

I don't have a screenshot of it. But I did do some investigating around it after the blasts, and the superstructure is still in ne peice.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Yeah, but the Brotherhood members have the advantage of wearing armor and having superior weaponry lol. The Legion isn't so fortunate.

The legion would fall against V87 Super Muties anyways. Overlords are incredibly difficult to deal with, especially their "Ignore DR Tribeam Laser Rifle!" crap!

I'm gonna hold off on replying to you until after I replay Fallout 3 soon, just so I can have a better understanding of stuff.

Heh, Ironically enough, I'm doing the same. 😛

The NCR would win, no doubt.

The CW Brotherhood have power armor training and Liberty Prime as an advantage, and that's about it.

The NCR would have an ENORMOUS numbers advantage. Really just ridiculously big. Not to mention the potential that they would have tech from Big MT which beats out anything in Fallout 3 (Except maybe for the Mothership Zeta stuff, but that's not canon so it doesn't count).

The major disadvantage the NCR has is its senior staff. Colonel Hsu is the reasonable member of the bunch, as is Lt. Gorobets of First Recon and Ambassador Crocker. Ranger Hanlon, though his intentions are honorable, are hindering the NCR's efforts in the Mojave. Colonel Moore has a long standing grudge with the BoS for ending her career as a frontline soldier. General Oliver is pretty much an inept officer, and Hanlon calls him out on it. Any general worth his stars knows that it is better to harass the enemy by knocking down their numbers. Oliver wants to take the Legion out in one big battle just to cement his legacy, not caring that the death toll will be high. Caesar has the right idea when it comes to harassing the enemy, but he could not het the job done. You thin out the enemy's numbers, that makes them easier to fight.

Hanlon is only a hindrance because he's fed up with the war of attrition the NCR's been waging, and he can still be convinced to stop what he's doing and do his job right.

The NCR couldn't take New Vegas without the Courier's help, and all it had to defend itself was some securitrons who weren't even at full power and some gangster families, if memory serves. What can they hope to do against Liberty Prime? It took an orbital bombardment to bring it down. And don't they have the huge mobile fortress now as well along with all it's tech? I haven't played Big MT, but is there anything in there that can stop Liberty Prime or the Mobile Fortress? Also, does the NCR have it? Because if the courier has it I don't think it counts, unless the Courier and Lone Wanderer are active players in the fight.

Originally posted by TacDavey
The NCR couldn't take New Vegas without the Courier's help, and all it had to defend itself was some securitrons who weren't even at full power and some gangster families, if memory serves. What can they hope to do against Liberty Prime? It took an orbital bombardment to bring it down. And don't they have the huge mobile fortress now as well along with all it's tech? I haven't played Big MT, but is there anything in there that can stop Liberty Prime or the Mobile Fortress? Also, does the NCR have it? Because if the courier has it I don't think it counts, unless the Courier and Lone Wanderer are active players in the fight.

NCR was unable to take New Vegas due to be unwilling to fight a war with both Caesar's Legion and Mr. House while having wrecked supply lines.

The Mobile Fortress was blown up.

NCR can be supplied with nuclear warheads from the Great Divide, plus I am moderately certain the same group that created matter manipulation tech could wreak Prime.

If neither the LW or Courier and their assets are involved then lol, the BoS really has no argument. They simply would not be able to fight a self-sufficient nation with a population going into the hundreds of thousands.

Originally posted by LiNaK37
The NCR would win, no doubt.

Pfft.. Yeah ok... 🙄

Originally posted by LiNaK37
The CW Brotherhood have power armor training and Liberty Prime as an advantage, and that's about it.

They have Enclave tech + production, they have Zetatech. And they have the Pitt's production. Excellent deduction...

Originally posted by LiNaK37
The NCR would have an ENORMOUS numbers advantage. Really just ridiculously big. Not to mention the potential that they would have tech from Big MT which beats out anything in Fallout 3 (Except maybe for the Mothership Zeta stuff, but that's not canon so it doesn't count).

No, Zeta does count. just because you don't like it, does not mean it doesn't count.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
NCR was unable to take New Vegas due to be unwilling to fight a war with both Caesar's Legion and Mr. House while having wrecked supply lines.

And you think they will recover from that in 2 years, when they couldn't do it in 4 years post the 1st battle of Hoover?

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
The Mobile Fortress was blown up.

No, it was disabled, as in mission killed, not destroyed...

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
NCR can be supplied with nuclear warheads from the Great Divide, plus I am moderately certain the same group that created matter manipulation tech could wreak Prime.

Yeah, ok.... Nuclear warheads with no triggers are as useful as huge paperweights. The same warheads the Courier either already used, or sabotaged is not an advantage except for nuclear fuel.

And your "certainty" about matter manipulation is suspicion... Considering what was thrown at prime, and what it eventually took to down it, I doubt anything short of Archimedes II would even work.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
If neither the LW or Courier and their assets are involved then lol, the BoS really has no argument. They simply would not be able to fight a self-sufficient nation with a population going into the hundreds of thousands.

But the OP (which I wrote) says otherwise.