Originally posted by D_Dude1210Yes, that's the instance I'm talking about. Hulk had him on his knees after the attack, eventough as he delivered the attack he had to break free of Silver Surfer’s attack trying to stop him.
The "Hulk" instance I'm referring to is their first encounter when Hulk double punches him and he just stands up and says it didn't affect him at all. Right before he drain the Gamma radiation from him.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Top-tiers take direct hits from other top-tiers all the time, get up, and keep on fighting. It seems rather amusing that you use a common occurance as something that is impressive. Again. But then, you used ships as high-end durability feat. haermm
His durability has also been shown so that he can take multiple direct hits from BRB's hammer and just shrug it off, taking a power punch (meant to knock him out) from SuperGod Herc and just standing up right after, etc.
Since you mentioned something about Surfer shrugging off hammers.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer07.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer08.jpg
Post scans of the Hercules instance. In the meantime, let's remember how Surfer did against a skyfather trying to knock him out.
http://img385.imageshack.us/f/warlockandtheinfinitywatch25bl4.jpg/
Originally posted by D_Dude1210It's, again, rather amusing that you try to demean DoS Doomsday, who was by the way very impressive, when you use She-Hulk from a period where she wasn't even close to the levels of today. And yes, this obviously wasn't to show that he could have no-sold DoS Doomsday (was it the Death of Superman part that gave it away? I never thought anybody would catch on that, you're a genius), but to show him shrugging off attacks in the manner you showed for Surfer, from an opponent more impressive than the ones Surfer did.
1) I read that issue, that's DOS Doomsday you're talking about (who, btw wasn't all that impressive at all) and that he didn't give that punch his all as on the next panel he kicks Clark in the stomach, knocks the breath out of him and sends him flying.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210"It's Guy" isn't a counter argument, I'm afraid. The fact that top Green Lanterns are capable of amping to high-end levels that allow them to go up against the likes of Mongul and Cyborg Superman is.
2) How is that impressive? :-/ It's GUY.
3) DEF a weakened Doomsday.
Yes, it was a weakened Doomsday, as I've already specified. But I hope you’re not suggesting he’s below She-Hulk or anything, are you? haermm
Originally posted by D_Dude1210You know that old saying, “I don’t think that word means what you think it does”? This is one of those cases. Feel free to elaborate on why this was hypocritical.
You posting context-based "feats" like you did below and saying that the "Crunch" manipulation feat is laughable is a bit hypocritical don't you think?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210An entire random space fleet? That is ridiculous, how could Surfer survive such a thing? I mean, surviving in black holes, the center of stars, planetary explosions are one thing, but space fleets and their lazers?! dur
Yes it is. An entire space battle fleet firing their full ordinance at you and you just raising an eyebrow after it is pretty impressive. Show an instance where Superman did the same.
I truly feel sorry for you.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210(1). Well, that’s vague. haermm Feel free to debunk it with me, though. 
1) That feat with the mini black hole has been rebuked countless times here already.2) IIRC, that feat happened at the Event Horizon the "double black holes". Event Horizon =/= core of a black hole. Not even close. That and the fact he was actually struggling when he did that.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210My point is that it was stated, clear as day, that their powers shield them from the effects of the blackhole. Just a few pages earlier from this statement, Surfer showed the capability to shield both himself and Alicia from the Black Hole’s effects.
His power IS what gives him his durability. :-/ What's your point?Also, pulling an old feat, comparing it to a different feat at a different era from a different story arc/writer and then drawing correlations between the two is a bit reaching isn't it?
There was no mention of the Black Hole amping the Surfer AT THE TIME of his fight with Red Shift and we shouldn't draw correlations between the two.
I disagree. See above.
http://img69.imageshack.us/i/surferblackhole1.jpg/
I smiled and facepalmed at you complaining about using feats from different eras…
…one of them being from 1990 and the other from 1999 haermm
…and saying that it’s somewhat invalid, but yet you feel free to randomly draw feats from every time period, and say they all show what Surfer is capable of. Boo me from using what the comics have shown, but yay you for cherry picking the best ones throughout his history, am I right? 😂
Surfer’s feat is dubious in itself, since the narration makes it clear that it’s their powers that shield them (something that Surfer proved capable of doing just a few pages earlier); that, coupled with the fact that blackholes have actually been shown to increase Surfer’s power, makes this feat rather faulty to bring up.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Thor gets hit by Celestials and keeps on moving. Captain Marvel gets a prolonged beating by Spectre and keeps on going. Superman gets into fights with beings that have Eternity’s DC equivalent on the run and they try to uncreate him, or Quantum Mecahnic gods, gets up and keeps going.
Still multiple hits from Abstracts.
But Surfer being destroyed by two attacks, followed by another two that have him so beaten up the abstracts actually turn their backs on him and leave him to die is suddenly the be-all-end-all? haermm
Oh, you Surfer fans.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210😂
Superman was being uncreated, pls indicate where it states that Superman's durability is what is slowing the process down or if the process got slowed down at all.Or are you just making an assumption here?
“It is my durability that’s allowed me to resist being attacked for two pages by somebody powerful enough to have Kismet on the run and to create whole realities, fellow reader. Can I get back to screaming in pain, now?”
Amazing. Just amazing.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Try to keep up, because I’m not going to make the logical connexions for you. I said don’t make me laugh at the Crunch feat when you brought it up in relation to “surviving something that kills abstracts” – I didn’t dismiss him taking the beating from Tenebrous and Aegis, in fact, the whole Dominus/Quantum Mechanic examples were to illustrate Superman doing the same thing.
And you say "don't make me laugh" at the Crunch feat...?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210That’s trolling. Or conceding. Choose which one you think is less of a blow to your self-esteem.
I KNEW these context-based plot devices were gonna be brought up. Sigh. Not even gonna bother.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Superman has used T-Vo more times than Surfer has gone up against abstracts and defeated them. But it's not really needed. Not even half of the feats I just posted are needed to prove that Superman is more powerful than Surfer.
And are you really bringing in the T-VO feat here?? Really?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Surfer hasn’t been shown to have lightspeed reaction time, and when he encounters speedsters that are, at best, Superman level (like the Runner) or far below (Midnight Sun, Ganymede) his limits in combat speed are clearly shown. Nobody is claiming Surfer doesn’t have superspeed reaction time, but not even close to Superman.
Nope. Surfer has been shown to have light-speed reaction time. And the ability to blitz himself. His limbs might not move like the Flash, but he's been able to chase down erratically moving light signals before. And Surfer's durabiltiy will more than allow him to tank Superman's punches.It's sad how ppl keep insisting that Surfer has no superhuman reaction speed.
Expand on what you mean by “tank” Superman’s punches.
Don't waste your time, Philo. No chance of having any sort of reasonable exchange with this guy. The critical thinking and reading comprehension skills are just simply not there.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Superman has done the shrugging off hits routine quite a few times, with some of the most notable examples being:a). No-sells Doomsday's attack.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/DoomsdayFirstAttacks1.jpg
b). No-sells Guy’s yellow ring amped punches, catches his strike, then leaves. (Hal, amped in a similar manner, punched Cyborg Superman's jaw off, as an example)
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/SupermanGuyNo-selling.jpg
c). No-sells Doomsday Rex. (weakened, yes, but I somewhat believe that his strikes aren't below She-Hulk, lawlz)
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/nosellingddrex.jpg
Anyhow, when trolls who do not actually read comics simply reference scans from respect threads and use recycled arguments, the matter 'shrugging off attacks' comes up frequently it seems. For Superman it's essentially, "Does a bear shit in the woods?"
ALL OF THESE took place prior to DOS. Byrne-man here.
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/Palming%20and%20Toughness/PalmingandToughness4a.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/Palming%20and%20Toughness/PalmingandToughness4b.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/Palming%20and%20Toughness/PalmingandToughness9a.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/Palming%20and%20Toughness/PalmingandToughness9b.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/Spire84/Superman/Palming%20and%20Toughness/PalmingandToughness9c.jpg
And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Sigh. Yet another poster that believes that being a condescending ass is a viable debating technique. I swear, the majority of Superman fanbois seem to have this in common. It's sad, I HAD a lot of respect for you as a debater prior to this, but if you're not gonna conduct yourself respectfully to your fellow posters, then neither am I.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Yes, that's the instance I'm talking about. Hulk had him on his knees after the attack, eventough as he delivered the attack he had to break free of Silver Surfer’s attack trying to stop him.
Wow. Is THAT how you interpret that instance? The fact that the writer seems to strongly point out that the Hulk's attack had no effect at all on the Surfer thru that instance escapes you??
Originally posted by Philosophía
Top-tiers take direct hits from other top-tiers all the time, get up, and keep on fighting. It seems rather amusing that you use a common occurance as something that is impressive. Again. But then, you used ships as high-end durability feat. haermm
Since you mentioned something about Surfer shrugging off hammers.
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer07.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsSilverSurfer08.jpg
Post scans of the Hercules instance. In the meantime, let's remember how Surfer did against a skyfather trying to knock him out.
http://img385.imageshack.us/f/warlockandtheinfinitywatch25bl4.jpg/
Your argument is only viable as a "common occurrence" if you ignore the fact that in those 2 instances:
1) Surfer was (other than being tossed around) COMPLETELY unaffected by BRB's strongest blows. This is the same BRB that was busting planets during that arc. You trying to downplay the feat, notwithstanding.
2) You can argue the Herc (see Chaos War) incident, but it happened on-panel and trying to discredit it by using a condescending posting tone really doesn't prove your point.
Then posting 2 instances where:
1) Thor here was arguably amped by his rage.
2) This was Odin, the highest skyfather out there who would KTFO Superman easily with one hit as well (you wanna debate that fact?).
3) BOTH of the instances where you presented scans were pre-Annihilation Surfer.
Crappy logic there, buddy.
Originally posted by Philosophía
It's, again, rather amusing that you try to demean DoS Doomsday, who was by the way very impressive, when you use She-Hulk from a period where she wasn't even close to the levels of today. And yes, this obviously wasn't to show that he could have no-sold DoS Doomsday (was it the Death of Superman part that gave it away? I never thought anybody would catch on that, you're a genius), but to show him shrugging off attacks in the manner you showed for Surfer, from an opponent more impressive than the ones Surfer did.
Yeah, the same Doomsday who took how long to get out of an alien coffin and bust out of the ground? :-/
All the combined force of DDs and Superman's punches did in that arc was shatter nearby glass...
Yeah, he SURE is impressive. Geez, how did I fail to see that?? 😮 You, sir, have shown me the light.
FYi, common consensus in the forum is that BRB would decisively beat DOS Doomsday.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=406569&pagenumber=3
But I'm sure you believe differently.
Originally posted by Philosophía
"It's Guy" isn't a counter argument, I'm afraid. The fact that top Green Lanterns are capable of amping to high-end levels that allow them to go up against the likes of Mongul and Cyborg Superman is.
Tell that to Batman.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Yes, it was a weakened Doomsday, as I've already specified. But I hope you’re not suggesting he’s below She-Hulk or anything, are you? haermm
Got any proof that THIS (obviously slower, weaker, less durable) Doomsday is more impressive? Or are you gonna go to the "just because" argument here?
Originally posted by Philosophía
You know that old saying, “I don’t think that word means what you think it does”? This is one of those cases. Feel free to elaborate on why this was hypocritical.
The fact that you present context-laden Deus Ex Machina "feats" as proof of Superman being more powerful and yet "laugh" when I mention the Crunch feat? :-/
Originally posted by Philosophía
An entire random space fleet? That is ridiculous, how could Surfer survive such a thing? I mean, surviving in black holes, the center of stars, planetary explosions are one thing, but space fleets and their lazers?! dur
Again, downright raising an eyebrow at an entire space fleet's weaponry is a viable durability feat. Many of Earth's CURRENT lasers burn many times hotter than the sun. One would naturally assume that a space-faring race's weaponry would hit a little harder than that.
Feel free to show something that Superman has done similar to this.
Originally posted by Philosophía
I truly feel sorry for you.
I'm not the one who feels the need to act like an angry gorilla simply to protect a comic book character on an online forum.
You might really wanna look inwards there buddy before feeling sorry for anyone else.
Originally posted by Philosophía
(1). Well, that’s vague. haermm Feel free to debunk it with me, though. 
The fact that the Singularity wasn't completely formed and that the feat itself is more an indication of durability/strength rather than any form of being powerful that he had?
Originally posted by Philosophía
(2). When he entered the space rift, he was actually inside the first blackhole, withstood it and accelerated out of it until he encountered the second blackhole, which, along with the first one, created a space/time rift (thus why you see two sets of heads/limbs for both Superman and the creature). He resisted being inside the black hole, encountering the second and the time/space rips made by both of them.
And had a hard time doing it and was obviously affected by it (via the scans). The Surfer did a whole lot better than he did.
Originally posted by Philosophía
My point is that it was stated, clear as day, that their powers shield them from the effects of the blackhole. Just a few pages earlier from this statement, Surfer showed the capability to shield both himself and Alicia from the Black Hole’s effects.
http://img69.imageshack.us/i/surferblackhole1.jpg/I smiled and facepalmed at you complaining about using feats from different eras…
…one of them being from 1990 and the other from 1999 haermm
And you don't get my point. I wasn't "complaining", I just found it to be silly that you would attempt to downplay the feat by making a correlation between two completely different feats with completely different context that are spaced 10 years apart when there is ZERO on panel evidence to support your ASSUMPTION.
Originally posted by Philosophía
…and saying that it’s somewhat invalid, but yet you feel free to randomly draw feats from every time period, and say they all show what Surfer is capable of. Boo me from using what the comics have shown, but yay you for cherry picking the best ones throughout his history, am I right? 😂
The feats I showed (other than the Hulk/She-Hulk ones) were more recent showings after Galactus' apparent post-annihilation upgrade to the Surfer. I wasn't cherry picking, at all. If anyone cherry picked here, it's you, by going to old showings that the Surfer has in order to downplay his more recent feats.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Surfer’s feat is dubious in itself, since the narration makes it clear that it’s their powers that shield them (something that Surfer proved capable of doing just a few pages earlier); that, coupled with the fact that blackholes have actually been shown to increase Surfer’s power, makes this feat rather faulty to bring up.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Thor gets hit by Celestials and keeps on moving. Captain Marvel gets a prolonged beating by Spectre and keeps on going. Superman gets into fights with beings that have Eternity’s DC equivalent on the run and they try to uncreate him, or Quantum Mecahnic gods, gets up and keeps going.
Notice that the MARVEL character here actually had viable durability feat while the DC ones had one w/c was amped and the other that was completely based on an assumption? And yet, somehow you correlate them as identical feats in terms of viability?
Funny how a DC fanboy's mind works.
Originally posted by Philosophía
But Surfer being destroyed by two attacks, followed by another two that have him so beaten up the abstracts actually turn their backs on him and leave him to die is suddenly the be-all-end-all? haermm
Oh, you Surfer fans.
😂
Suffering 4 direct hits from TWO abstracts who were trying to kill him is pretty impressive. You trying to downplay the incident notwithstanding.
The only comparable feat you have is Superman being "uncreated" wherein you provided ZERO proof that his durability was actually resisting it. But yeah, feel free to create ASSUMPTIONS by reading up more than what is being written on panel just so you can feel better at night. You seem to be good at that.
Oh, you Superman fans.
Originally posted by Philosophía
“It is my durability that’s allowed me to resist being attacked for two pages by somebody powerful enough to have Kismet on the run and to create whole realities, fellow reader. Can I get back to screaming in pain, now?”
Amazing. Just amazing.
I see. You have ZERO on panel indication that there was any form of resistance being demonstrated here or that this "un-creation" process was taking longer due to any form of resistance from Superman, yet you ASSUME that there is....
Assumption with no evidence. Yet you come to me with an insulting matter-of-factly tone and an assuredness of being indisputably correct. h1a8 level "logic" right there.
But feel free to hide faulty logic behind your condescending tone.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Try to keep up, because I’m not going to make the logical connexions for you. I said don’t make me laugh at the Crunch feat when you brought it up in relation to “surviving something that kills abstracts” – I didn’t dismiss him taking the beating from Tenebrous and Aegis, in fact, the whole Dominus/Quantum Mechanic examples were to illustrate Superman doing the same thing.
No it didn't. Neither feat is comparable in viability to the Surfer's feat at all. See above. And yes, he DID survive something that could kill abstracts. That's written on-panel as well. What basis/argument did you present that disputes this? Or is "don't me me laugh"/ "LOLZ" and being insulting the only argument you have?
Originally posted by Philosophía
That’s trolling. Or conceding. Choose which one you think is less of a blow to your self-esteem.
Let's go back to your "power feat "list shall we?
Originally posted by Philosophía
Superman has destroyed Multiversal evil gods by singing, forcibly depowered Primordial Annihilators by absorbing the exact opposite of what powers him up (anti-sunlight), has destroyed space/time by punching hard. He repairs breaches in reality by rubbing his hands really fast, he contains blackholes in his palms. He contains the Bleed, the very essence of ultimate destruction and creation, when nobody but trans-multiversal beings like the Monitors, analogues of the writers, are stated to be capable of. As a few examples. I haven't even gotten into the likes of T-Vo, with which he matches for power beings more powerful than Surfer's master.
Super Singing? Seriously?? Using Deus Ex Machina as proof of him being powerful? Lame. I didn't use the Surfer using the crunch to kill 2 abstracts as an indication of power did I? Space/Time power punching/static cling repair are unquantifiable feats (and static cling was just plain silly). Black hole containment is more durability/strength than power. Containing the Bleed is more of a "spirit/will" feat than actual power.
T-Vo had context to it and you know it. Presenting it here as some sort of proof of power is not just misleading, it's dishonest.
Is this all the "proof" you have of Superman being more powerful?? Did you even read what you posted? How did you even convince yourself that you're even remotely correct?
Seriously, I present a few viable, QUANTIFIABLE feats of the Surfer's durability/power and you come back to me and present SUPER SINGING as proof and come to me with a matter-of-factly condescending attitude and accuse ME of trolling?? Really??
Wow.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Superman has used T-Vo more times than Surfer has gone up against abstracts and defeated them. But it's not really needed. Not even half of the feats I just posted are needed to prove that Superman is more powerful than Surfer.
Like what? Super singing? Super rubbing-his-hand-to-produce-static-cling power? Those are what makes him more powerful??? Really?? LOL. Yeah. Ok, if you say so.
Lame.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Surfer hasn’t been shown to have lightspeed reaction time, and when he encounters speedsters that are, at best, Superman level (like the Runner) or far below (Midnight Sun, Ganymede) his limits in combat speed are clearly shown. Nobody is claiming Surfer doesn’t have superspeed reaction time, but not even close to Superman.
The Runner being Superman-level in speed at best.......?
/facepalm.
So, being able to chase down an erratically-moving electron signal isn't light-speed level reaction time (or at the very least competitive enough to fight and keep up with Superman)? :-/
If you say, so....
Originally posted by Philosophía
Expand on what you mean by “tank” Superman’s punches.
The same way he tanked BRB's best hits? :-/
Originally posted by Spire
Don't waste your time, Philo. No chance of having any sort of reasonable exchange with this guy. The critical thinking and reading comprehension skills are just simply not there.
Seriously? This coming from a guy who stated this as word-of-law:
http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort/q/1851291780
And then gets pwnd by one scan:
http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort/q/1851291780
Then runs away? LOL.
Originally posted by Spire
Anyhow, when trolls who do not actually read comics simply reference scans from respect threads and use recycled arguments, the matter 'shrugging off attacks' comes up frequently it seems. For Superman it's essentially, "Does a bear shit in the woods?"
No one is stating that Superman isn't durable. But how do these compare to the Surfer's feats that I've already stated? :-/ How many of these blows are actually planet-destroying in level?
But I'm wasting my time. You don't debate, you throw around insults and hide behind an argument of a "You don't know what you're talking about" stance and present little/to arguments to defend your case.
If you're willing to debate then let's have at it.
Besides Tenebrous and Aegis, Surfer has survived attacks from other incredibly powerful beings.
Planet destroying attack by Korvac.
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5937/avengersannual1619je3.jpg
Breaks free from Korvac's planet forming attack.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/AvengersAnnual16-20.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/AvengersAnnual16-21.jpg
Edit.
By THIS scan I meant. Cut/Paste fail. S'what happens when you go drinking the night before, I guess.
http://s715.photobucket.com/albums/ww156/ankur2113/?action=view¤t=Thor-FirstThunder4009.jpg
i think surfer vs superman needs to be done in a formal battlezone match with a few posters per respective character.
it would reduce a lot of threads getting derailed by bringing up those two all the time cause any future threads can just have a link to the battlezone, then skip that entire potential flame war any time someone brings up surfer vs superman
Originally posted by carver9
Good job DDude. Keep it up.I think its pretty obvious who is more powerful/durable.
Overall I think Superman is stronger.
I agree psycho.
Power wise... Surfer and Thor imo are the top 2.
I believe in a strength arm wrestling contest Superman is stronger but Surfer versatility and power output is amazing. The argument should be out of Thor and Surfer instead. Which one of those two are more powerful because that would be an unknown question.
Originally posted by Sin I AMWTF??
meh...i dont think it would be that extreme Cytorraks enchantment isnt that powerful, imo Flashes control over the SF is greater than cains being unstoppable
