Ymir vs Mephisto

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I feel like I'm dumber having read Zozop and Rage's posts.

baka Really? Care to actually contest anything in my posts instead of just being a whiny little prick?

I think Odin and Galactus are peers for the most part. There's nothing silly about that. Yes, during the age when Thomas was at helm -Odin's lowest level- and Galactus was pushed as the third Universal force, I think he was above Odin by a noticeable amount, but that era was quickly left behind with Odin being written as a Galactic level being under Simonson.

^ Yes, I'm the whiny little prick here. I'm the one who's grasping at straws to boost my favorite character's supporting cast 🙄

I think your entire argument hinges on obsolete statements and past "depictions" rather than accurate understanding of the current status quo.

Basically it boils down to the Celestials shitting all over Odin and Galactus being seen as the Celestial's peer.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
IIRC, Mephisto was using illusions in that fight but it was never directly stated that his destruction/recreation of Mjolnir was an illusion.

However, it would make much more sense that it was an illusion like IIRC Odin was, based on his past interactions with Thor/Asgard and his goal in that issue. I believe he planned to demoralize Thor. Returning Mjolnir to him would be counterproductive.

Still, as nothing is conclusive, it's still speculation no matter how well it mashes up with the rest and you can't use that as a basis for a real argument.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I already told you what happened. Unless the writer etc. made a comment that says otherwise, I have no reason to believe the Cosmic Cube wasn't added to the totality of Doom's power.

The fact that Celestials were considered to be above Galactus etc. however suggests that they would have.

Yes. But we'll see soon enough in May how the two compare in power.

And Galactus is considered above Odin. Go figure. And seriously, don't get your hopes up.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
The point is that contractual agreements seem to lend Death Gods a lot of power. They had an agreement. Mephisto fulfilled that agreement. Contracts don't exist only in paper. Do I have to go digging for an interview?

Might have been speculated? Lulz. I'm telling you the apparent case. You don't have to like it or even agree.

I'm telling you that neither Odin, nor Hela have the power to retcon Marvel Earth. When they do so, let me know.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
^ Yes, I'm the whiny little prick here.

Well, at least you admit your faults.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think your entire argument hinges on obsolete statements and past "depictions" rather than accurate understanding of the current status quo.

Hey, if you can point me to a scene which shows Odin at lower levels then previously scene, then I'll concede. But as far as I know, Odin is no less powerful now than he was in his fight with Seth in the late 90's. Could you argue that his status is lower down the food chain? Sure, but as far as I know, there haven't been any real depictions of Odin going all out in a decade now. So, it'd be pure conjecture.

And you know what's ironic? Most of the people who want Odin to be below Galactus by some noticeable amount are usually the people who want Galactus to be some third Universal level force or truly cosmic entity.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Basically it boils down to the Celestials shitting all over Odin and Galactus being seen as the Celestial's peer.

Hilarity. The same Celestials whos hit over Odin would shit over Galactus.

And it's amusing how people use Odin's basically lowest point since his creation -at that time- as the basis for his standing in power levels. If I were to do the same for Galactus? Well....it wouldn't be pretty for the big guy.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And it's amusing how people use Odin's basically lowest point since his creation -at that time- as the basis for his standing in power levels. If I were to do the same for Galactus?

Lulz.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Just because Mephisto has used illusions doesn't make that scene an illusion. Mephisto's realm and its laws are subject to Mephisto's will completely. It's always been that way. A demonstration of that specific fact shouldn't be covered up with some flimsy speculation. We both know what happened.

No, it doesn't by it's nature. I'm simply telling you that there is a good possibility and that it would make it a lot more sense. Like I said, it's not conclusive as it involves speculation. Calling it flimsy speculation won't change the fact that it makes sense. I'm not trying to pass it off as what happened.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
We both know Doom didn't use the Cosmic Cube to wish Odin's beatdown. We both know Galactus' power was the ultimate goal of Doom despite the Cube. We both know that when Doom eventually lost the Cube, it was beneath his notice.

Lawlz, we do? Whatever you say bud.

Doom was crazy, mad with power, blah blah blah. You know all this.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And Galactus is considered above Odin. Go figure. And seriously, don't get your hopes up. Do you have to go digging for an interview because you apparently don't comprehend that actions > words? When Hela directly retcons Marvel Earth history, let me know. Characters have entered into contracts, been released and/or thwarted them and history hasn't been retconned. Cynthia von Doom, Johnny Blaze, Shalla Bal, etc.

On average? Sure, I can live with that but I believe that to only be the case with a fed Galactus etc. and/or the usually seen "base level" Odin.

Of course actions > words. No one ever contested that. I am however pointing out that contractual agreements grant higher end demons like Mephisto and Hela (Who I would have argued to be nigh equals in at least combined forces if not individual might) a lot of power when necessary. Quesada and/or Breevort touched on this in the past -for whatever it's worth- and now it's just established in continuity. I do not understand why you have trouble accepting that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm telling you that neither Odin, nor Hela have the power to retcon Marvel Earth. When they do so, let me know.

In the Avengers/Fantastic Four: Domination Factor series, Loki used Odin's magic inside a ceremonial golden apple to rewrite reality, and at the end of the story it was again used to restore the MU proper.

In Thor #499, Odin's sword, which he had infused with memories of Asgard, had enough residual magic in it to create an alternate reality complete with its own set of gods.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Lol at more of this Odin=Galactus bullshit.

Rage, stop embarrassing me, it's hard enough to be your friend already. 🙁

I'm sorry bro. 🙁 I won't preach the unpopular -yet correct- opinion next time. God forbid I change some minds or destroy the made up status quo people have in their heads.

Wait, is this that comedy routine you've been telling me about?

Haha, you had me going there for a bit.

ahah

Edit: You've guys taken too long to reply. I'm going to bed.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lulz.

No, it doesn't by it's nature. I'm simply telling you that there is a good possibility and that it would make it a lot more sense. Like I said, it's not conclusive as it involves speculation. Calling it flimsy speculation won't change the fact that it makes sense. I'm not trying to pass it off as what happened.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lawlz, we do? Whatever you say bud.

Doom was crazy, mad with power, blah blah blah. You know all this.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
On average? Sure, I can live with that but I believe that to only be the case with a fed Galactus etc. and/or the usually seen "base level" Odin.

Of course actions > words. No one ever contested that. I am however pointing out that contractual agreements grant higher end demons like Mephisto and Hela (Who I would have argued to be nigh equals in at least combined forces if not individual might) a lot of power when necessary. Quesada and/or Breevort touched on this in the past -for whatever it's worth- and now it's just established in continuity. I do not understand why you have trouble accepting that.

I do not understand why you wholly rely on a Death God's "contractual power" when it's actually disproven on-panel. Or that you ignore that Mephisto's highest on-panel feats >>>>>>>>> Hela's highest on-panel feats. Or that even granting Hela's non-feat as an argument, you ignore that Mephisto's feat wasn't a consequence of a contractual breaking wiping out past events, but a contractual undertaking wiping out past events.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In the Avengers/Fantastic Four: Domination Factor series, Loki used Odin's magic inside a ceremonial golden apple to rewrite reality, and at the end of the story it was again used to restore the MU proper.

In Thor #499, Odin's sword, which he had infused with memories of Asgard, had enough residual magic in it to create an alternate reality complete with its own set of gods.

We also both know that the other Asgard and Asgardians were pale reflections of true Asgard and the true Asgardians. That's still not retconning history.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm sorry bro. 🙁 I won't preach the unpopular -yet correct- opinion next time. God forbid I change some minds or destroy the made up status quo people have in their heads.

for my part i've offered a BZ. i'll take odin and someone can take galactus. quanchii already ran from the challenge. like any tourney match, we'll go by feats and on-panel evidence to decide a winner.

am i saying odin>galactus? no. what i am saying is that based on feats and past history, demonstrations in power make this a lot closer than most are willing to allow. and that is NOT using low-end galactus feats in the least.

so, meh.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Basically it boils down to the Celestials shitting all over Odin and Galactus being seen as the Celestial's peer.

proof of this?

on a seperate note: status and power are 2 seperate things entirely. in the cosmic hierarchy, galactus's ROLE/STATUS>>>>>>>>>>>>odin's role/status. however, status does not necessarily imply power.....

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
But as far as I know, Odin is no less powerful now than he was in his fight with Seth in the late 90's.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
And it's amusing how people use Odin's basically lowest point since his creation -at that time- as the basis for his standing in power levels.

Hmm...

lulz

Meh.

Originally posted by leonidas
am i saying odin>galactus? no.

Originally posted by leonidas
so, meh.

😕

Originally posted by zopzop
I agree it's BS, based on showings Odin > Galactus on average.