Ymir vs Mephisto

Originally posted by 753
IIRC G was being kept malnourished and sedated by thanos/annihilus tech, but he was being used to devour planets, however, they kept him from accessing that energy and the PC he metabolized from it. it was stored in canisters in the ship I believe. the plan was to accumulate a big enough meal and then rig his body to detonate, which would cause the extinction event that would leave annihilus as the sole survivor in the cosmos. I'll look for scans later

for instance, the US millitary started out with a single nuclear weapon -- which was enough to decimate a city, but that's about it. over the years, however, they've stockpiled enough nuclear weapons to destroy most everyone/thing on the planet. you see, they may have manufactured all the weapons, but that doesn't change the fact that the original weapon could only destroy a single city.

that said, if galactus was capable of storing -and not using- all the bio-energy he absorbs, then I have no doubt he could preform such a grand feat... but as it stands, he cannot. the energy he absorbs metabolizes FAR too quickly.

Originally posted by Mindset
Galactus hunger is never really sated, though.

I mean, he is "sated" when he eats a planet, but then he can easily consume the energy from his ship which also makes him "sated".

The fact that Galactus's position in the Universe is to keep order prevents him from simply consuming all he wants.

Changing his hunger did not change his ability to absorb/consume. Even if you were never able to tell when you were full you could not simply eat without having to eventually stop.

changing his hunger DID alter his ability to consume though. it grew geometrically and everytime he consumed something he HAD to consume MORE. could he do this without having been manipulated by a celestial? i have no idea, but nothing i've seen would indicate he could do so. lost in all this is the fact that he also needed a celestial-built machine in order to absorb the energies he was absorbing in that arc. the machine created that black hole. it's not like he consciously performed this feat, or even did it on his own. it also took how many YEARS for him to perform it? that time bubble really complicated things. 😬

beyond all that, this whole arc is non-canon as it happened in the future.

all that aside, the issue i have with it is simple--g has always been shown to need energy from a living source. in the celestial arc, he absorbed EVERYTHING--time, space, matter, living or non-living didn't seem to matter--and seemed to gain from it. he was a garbage dump for the black hole tech. the galactus we see would never do that--more to the point, based on what we've seen of him, he couldn't do that, at least not and GAIN power.

there are far too many problems with this arc (cool as it was) for me to say that what happened in it could be replicated by the standard version of galactus we have seen for so long.

Originally posted by 753
I don't see why not. the fact that he onlys eats enough to survive is a product of his mentality, not of an upper cap on how much he can eat in one go.

i've actually never contended otherwise. you COULD be right. my point all along has been that we don't KNOW the upper limit, and that the celestial arc cannot be used as PROOF he could absorb the universe because of all the circumstances surrounding it.

not really hard to do, most celestials dont have feats near G's. Id say toaa, arishem, exitar, dreaming one are stronger than him on average.

speculation i'm afraid. we have no way of knowing because the others really have no feats.

my mistake then

👆

pr and inimalist sound good, I was think about mr master too. how many judges participate?

mm really isn't around very often. i was remiss in not mentioning pr. personally, i'd rather have people who don't always take part in cosmic discussions. maybe save on SOME preconceived notions? digi, pr, bada would be great imo. if they'd be willing. we could find 2 more pretty easily i think if you wanted 2 others.

I was thinking regular space. standard versions and equipment. if the point is comparing their full power, perhaps CIS should be off. in any case, no ultimate nullifier allowed. [/B]

problem with regular space for odin is that many feel he is weaker outside of asgard. for g it doesn't matter WHERE he is. cis off? hmm, i'd like other opinions on that issue. anyone else have thoughts? should it be cis off? tourneys always use characters IN character.....

btw--not sure you've seen this, but it is a point i have been consistent on throughout my time in the forum: i didn't throw out this bz in order to demonstrate that odin is more powerful than g. i've LONG said g>odin. i want to bz to show that the gap in their displayed power levels is far closer than most want to admit. basically it's a battle of respect for odin.

course, that doesn't mean i plan on losing..... 😖hifty:

Originally posted by Galan007
that said, if galactus was capable of storing -and not using- all the bio-energy he absorbs, then I have no doubt he could preform such a grand feat... but as it stands, he cannot. the energy he absorbs metabolizes FAR too quickly.

i said the same thing in another thread. stop stealing my material. 😐

Originally posted by Galan007
...which isn't nearly the same as using his personal power to destroy both universes.

for instance, the US millitary started out with a single nuclear weapon -- which was enough to decimate a city, but that's about it. over the years, however, they've stockpiled enough nuclear weapons to destroy most everyone/thing on the planet. you see, they may have manufactured all the weapons, but that doesn't change the fact that the original weapon could only destroy a single city.

that said, if galactus was capable of storing -and not using- all the bio-energy he absorbs, then I have no doubt he could preform such a grand feat... but as it stands, he cannot. the energy he absorbs metabolizes FAR too quickly.

The energy of a single planet contains enough energy for Galactus (prior to the Annihilation Event) to keep him sated for a month, I won't exactly call that burning away energy far to quickly...

And how did a Ymir vs Mephisto Thread get derailed into a potential bz between Odin and Galactus and a general discussion about Galactus?

Originally posted by leonidas
i said the same thing in another thread. stop stealing my material. 😐

Originally posted by Utrigita
The energy of a single planet contains enough energy for Galactus (prior to the Annihilation Event) to keep him sated for a month, I won't exactly call that burning away energy far to quickly...

Originally posted by Utrigita
And how did a Ymir vs Mephisto Thread get derailed into a potential bz between Odin and Galactus and a general discussion about Galactus?

huh. shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
and i said it in a thread before that. stop stalking me! uhuh

only IF he kept his power output to a bare minimum in between feedings. but that's moot anyway, as i was referring to post-annihilation galactus.

But it really plays little consequance either way since your still basing your analyse on a set of circumstances that haven't been shown as being continuous. The only reason we saw Galactus take two heralds was, was as it's the case in the silver surfer mini atm, to replenish the energy he lost being captured in Annihilation. Atm we can assume that Galactus, having only displayed one herald, is back at requiring nothing beyond the ordinary (under normal circumstances) in order to replenish his energy when it dwindles.

Originally posted by leonidas
huh. shrug

More a general question Leonidas, not aimed at you in any way 🙂

Originally posted by Utrigita
But it really plays little consequance either way since your still basing your analyse on a set of circumstances that haven't been shown as being continuous.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Atm we can assume that Galactus, having only displayed one herald, is back at requiring nothing beyond the ordinary (under normal circumstances) in order to replenish his energy when it dwindles.

Originally posted by Utrigita
More a general question Leonidas, not aimed at you in any way 🙂

😂

i know. but realized i actually don't KNOW how we got so far off topic. oh well, it's been a fun discussion.

Originally posted by 753
👆 it was a trans in reference to eternity, my original post said "everyone from trans to midmeta level charatcers have pawned eternity and oblivion" and yes, I was talking about nightmare.

regarding these points--that was oblivion's first ever appearance, i believe, was it not? imo, that is no where near indicative of what oblivion later became. i liken that to some mortal beating despair. it's not that bobby 'beat' the concept of oblivion, just that he HIMSELF did not give in to it. it was a personal, metaphorical victory. least that's my opinion of that encounter.

as for nightmare--that too was very old. when nightmare first arrived on the scene he was considered pretty uber. but he didn't really beat eternity either. he tried to take OVER part of him via sleeping agents through the universe. there was no actual 'battle' per se. a better example would have been dormammu trying to actually directly battle eternity and putting him in a coma for a time..... now THAT was lame.

Originally posted by Galan007
...which isn't nearly the same as using his personal power to destroy both universes.

for instance, the US millitary started out with a single nuclear weapon -- which was enough to decimate a city, but that's about it. over the years, however, they've stockpiled enough nuclear weapons to destroy most everyone/thing on the planet. you see, they may have manufactured all the weapons, but that doesn't change the fact that the original weapon could only destroy a single city.

that said, if galactus was capable of storing -and not using- all the bio-energy he absorbs, then I have no doubt he could preform such a grand feat... but as it stands, he cannot. the energy he absorbs metabolizes FAR too quickly.

I dont think that comparison is very accurate, but I agree that G would need to store up to accompolish something like this. I believe he could achieve an equivalent result by loading taa II up and then detonating the energy stored in it.

Originally posted by Galan007
i think you're somewhat missing what i'm saying. i was only commenting on the sub-universal tasks preformed with galactus' energies during annihilation weakening him so drastically. if the aforementioned power expenditure (<<universal) can weaken him THAT much, there's really no feasible way he could destroy one -let alone two- universes under his own/standard level of power, in one swoop.

just recently surfer had to throw galactus into a star because a planet would not have sated him.

Originally posted by leonidas
regarding these points--that was oblivion's first ever appearance, i believe, was it not? imo, that is no where near indicative of what oblivion later became. i liken that to some mortal beating despair. it's not that bobby 'beat' the concept of oblivion, just that he HIMSELF did not give in to it. it was a personal, metaphorical victory. least that's my opinion of that encounter.

as for nightmare--that too was very old. when nightmare first arrived on the scene he was considered pretty uber. but he didn't really beat eternity either. he tried to take OVER part of him via sleeping agents through the universe. there was no actual 'battle' per se. a better example would have been dormammu trying to actually directly battle eternity and putting him in a coma for a time..... now THAT was lame.

Originally posted by 753
I don't disagree, I'm merely pointing out that very high end characters powerwise, specially the forces of nature types, tend to have have very poor records on panel because writers can't properly handle them. oblivion being koed doesnt even make any sense.

it makes sense to me if it is viewed as a metaphor for bobby actually conquering his 'personal' oblivion. which is the way imo it was meant to be depicted.

btw for 2 guys who are gonna have a bz, we seem to agree a lot. 😂

Originally posted by Galan007
i think you're somewhat missing what i'm saying. i was only commenting on the sub-universal tasks preformed with galactus' energies during annihilation weakening him so drastically. if the aforementioned power expenditure (<<universal) can weaken him THAT much, there's really no feasible way he could destroy one -let alone two- universes under his own/standard level of power, in one swoop.

Your initial focus was on Post Annihilation Galactus that, by requiring more energy currently then previously, would not be capable of performing a universal wide extinction event, because of the energy consumption used in Annihilation when Galactus did something (I'm rather vague here because the only thing I recall Galactus doing of significance was 1. fighting Tenebrous and Aegis 2. Swept a Galaxy clean after being weakened for a substantial amount of time). However Galactus wasn't following the annihilation Event drastically weakened as a result of power expenditure, he was weakened as a result of him not obtaining substance for a prolonged amount of time, a prerequisite that is no longer valid concerning post annihilation Galactus as that Galactus haven't been doing anything else then replenishing his lost energy as a result of Annihilation, in order to return to a pre annihilation hunger level. If your point is that Galactus have never shown the ability to wipe out the universe, then I agree, but I don't agree with your analyse that Galactus can't get to a level where he potentially could (given the information presented to us in Godhunter) because you places his energy consumption level at post annihilation after a event that left his own internal energy levels drastically weakened.

Originally posted by Galan007
just recently surfer had to throw galactus into a star because a planet would not have sated him.

After Galactus had used all his energy (when he has already hungry) to open a wormhole so the Chaos King could be removed from the 616 reality, unless ofcause you would call that normal circumstances, I don't see the relevans in the presented comparison as a mean to gauge recent post annihilation Galactus.

Originally posted by 753
I believe he was weakened because they kept him starved while the power he consumed was kept from him and weaponized, not because he spent it destroying those worlds (they were destroyed through the feeding). the blast that destroyed the wave was released when he was extremely weak from starvation while sedated.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Your initial focus was on Post Annihilation Galactus that, by requiring more energy currently then previously, would not be capable of performing a universal wide extinction event, because of the energy consumption used in Annihilation when Galactus did something (I'm rather vague here because the only thing I recall Galactus doing of significance was 1. fighting Tenebrous and Aegis 2. Swept a Galaxy clean after being weakened for a substantial amount of time). However Galactus wasn't following the annihilation Event drastically weakened as a result of power expenditure, he was weakened as a result of him not obtaining substance for a prolonged amount of time, a prerequisite that is no longer valid concerning post annihilation Galactus as that Galactus haven't been doing anything else then replenishing his lost energy as a result of Annihilation, in order to return to a pre annihilation hunger level. If your point is that Galactus have never shown the ability to wipe out the universe, then I agree, but I don't agree with your analyse that Galactus can't get to a level where he potentially could (given the information presented to us in Godhunter) because you places his energy consumption level at post annihilation after a event that left his own internal energy levels drastically weakened.

i don't think i can be much clearer, but i feel like there is some sort of communication error here..?

Originally posted by Galan007
that's the thing, energy expenditure is energy expenditure. if galactus were to try and destroy multiple universes in one fell swoop, he would not have the privilege of feeding/replacing lost energies as he was doing so. he would have to rely exclusively on his personal energy stores -- and annihilation showed us that even after most of his energy stores are used up, and he is forced to draw on the reserves of his very being to survive, his cumulative power output is still FAR less than universal... let alone multi-universal.

i don't think i can be much clearer, but i feel like there is some sort of communication error here..?

There has, I'm not agreeing entirely with the above either, but yes there have been a miscommunication, atleast as I see it.

What would be usefull, would be a what if that dealt with how exactly Annihilus planned on archiving his goal.