Originally posted by marwash22
she's taken out 5 or 6 guys before a gun could hit the ground... she's done similar things with other objects showing that her speed is ridiculous. She's entered a room and taken out multiple targets before they even realized she was in the room. She's definitely faster than him.
None of that proves shes faster, the point is you keep using faulty logic to back up your case.
Originally posted by Deadline
His arguments in general are faulty. According to the arguments hes provided Batgirl is slower than Punisher that speaks volumes about his arguments in general. He hasn't really given any of his points any thought at all, he simply thinks that if Batgirl has done something or has an attribute that this gives her the win or makes her better than certain martial artists.
In your opinion.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I actually did."every street-leveller can do that" isn't sound debating logic.
Yea your right ie anything to get you off my back.
Originally posted by marwash22
can he duplicate her feats?
Originally posted by marwash22
they've done this?:http://img239.imageshack.us/i/batgirl017179ax.jpg/
http://img239.imageshack.us/i/batgirl017180dn.jpg/
Hes done something similar In Punisher In The Blood #3 and was arguably more impressive.
This
http://img32.imageshack.us/i/pundeadi0.jpg/
http://img32.imageshack.us/i/pundeadi1.jpg/
is better than this.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/Batgirl%20bullet%20dodging/SaintSaturn/Batgirl13pg03.jpg
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'm not "on your back". Just pointing out my opinion.
I'm probably going to regret this but what was wrong with the arguments I made and why were his arguments better? Naturally you will always assume I'm wrong, my arguements were more compliacted than "any street leveler can do that".
Originally posted by -Pr-Also, where's the dodging in those scans? That one blast?
So the point that its a laser and he wasn't expecting to run out of bullets and the equipment the guy is using is more advanced than a gun is irrelevant? Its was two the first one he was playing possum. I hope were not getting into semantic about the word dodging.
Deadline, this will never end. Your mind is made up and I don't really care to dissuade you from believing something that isn't true.
lemme ask you this: let's pretend that Punisher has speed/quickness equal to Cass... how does that matter when she's a better fighter than he is? What will happen when he runs out of bullets and she is in his face? iirc, when we were doing the MA tiers, you even said yourself that Frank isn't all that great in MA and that the only reason he is as high as he is, is due to his damage soak. It's pretty much a consensus that she is his superior in MA... by a considerable margin.
Punisher gets his ass kicked A LOT, but keeps fighting, not because he's a great MA, but because of the aforementioned damage soak.
Originally posted by marwash22
Deadline, this will never end. Your mind is made up and I don't really care to dissuade you from believing something that isn't true.lemme ask you this: let's pretend that Punisher has speed/quickness equal to Cass... how does that matter when she's a better fighter than he is? What will happen when he runs out of bullets and she is in his face? iirc, when we were doing the MA tiers, you even said yourself that Frank isn't all that great in MA and that the only reason he is as high as he is, is due to his damage soak. It's pretty much a consensus that she is his superior in MA... by a considerable margin.
Punisher gets his ass kicked A LOT, but keeps fighting, not because he's a great MA, but because of the aforementioned damage soak.
Listen your wasting my time. Not even arguing hes faster, completely missing the point.
Originally posted by Deadline
Naturally you will always assume I'm wrong
No, I actually don't.
So the point that its a laser and he wasn't expecting to run out of bullets and the equipment the guy is using is more advanced than a gun is irrelevant? Its was two the first one he was playing possum. I hope were not getting into semantic about the word dodging.
I simply wanted to know why you thought the feat you posted was a better one than the bullet dance or whatever they call it one.
Originally posted by marwash22
Deadline, this will never end. Your mind is made up and I don't really care to dissuade you from believing something that isn't true.lemme ask you this: let's pretend that Punisher has speed/quickness equal to Cass... how does that matter when she's a better fighter than he is? What will happen when he runs out of bullets and she is in his face? iirc, when we were doing the MA tiers, you even said yourself that Frank isn't all that great in MA and that the only reason he is as high as he is, is due to his damage soak. It's pretty much a consensus that she is his superior in MA... by a considerable margin.
Punisher gets his ass kicked A LOT, but keeps fighting, not because he's a great MA, but because of the aforementioned damage soak.
to be fair though, win or lose, he puts up a good showing against marvels top tier MAs
Originally posted by -Pr-
No, I actually don't.
Really? Then explain this.
Originally posted by -Pr-
"every street-leveller can do that" isn't sound debating logic.
Please explain how pointing out that her bullet dodging feats are nothing special isn't good logic, bare in mind that the people Punisher has shot have better dodging/speed feats. The point I was making is shes getting shot and her feats don't give her any advantage,
Originally posted by -Pr-
I simply wanted to know why you thought the feat you posted was a better one than the bullet dance or whatever they call it one.
1. Hes dodging laser fire eventhough it may not be going at lightspeed it's reasonable to assume it is because it's similar in nature to a laser.
2. It's hi-tech, the whole concept of hi-tech equipment is that its better than standard, so its pretty safe to assume its better than shooting a gun.
3. Hes based on Cyclops obvoulsy and I would also assume his gear is activated by thought
4. Punisher was on the ground in a less than ideal position and wasn't expecting to run out of bullets. In other words it harder to dodge something when you didn't think you needed to dodge in the first place.
5. I could possibly argue proximity.
Originally posted by marwash22
Punisher gets his ass kicked A LOT, but keeps fighting, not because he's a great MA, but because of the aforementioned damage soak.
Moot and in the past 5 years thats partially incorrect.
Originally posted by inimalistI'm not claiming he doesn't. I think there has been some sort of misunderstanding and the people arguing for Punisher think the other side is saying this is a total mismatch. The words "rape" or "stomp" haven't been typed in this entire thread. No one is saying Cass would dismantle him, she just wins.
to be fair though, win or lose, he puts up a good showing against marvels top tier MAs
The only advantage Pun has is guns, which as it turns out, isn't really an advantage at all because Cass has numerous bullet dodging feats. It's nonsense to think that because it Pun shooting the bullets, the outcome will be different than any other time she's been shot at.
the chick has the reflexes of a meta and they're supplemented by her ability to predict her opponents moves... c'mon son.
^ All those points have been adressed.
Originally posted by marwash22
The only advantage Pun has is guns, which as it turns out, isn't really an advantage at all because Cass has numerous bullet dodging feats. It's nonsense to think that because it Pun shooting the bullets, the outcome will be different than any other time she's been shot at.
You're still making that argument? Apparently thats a good point. facepalm
Originally posted by Deadline
Please explain how pointing out that her bullet dodging feats are nothing special isn't good logic, bare in mind that the people Punisher has shot have better dodging/speed feats. The point I was making is shes getting shot and her feats don't give her any advantage,
And yet plenty of people disagree. Including me. It just happened to happen AFTER I read your posts.
1. Hes dodging laser fire eventhough it may not be going at lightspeed it's reasonable to assume it is because it's similar in nature to a laser.
2. It's hi-tech, the whole concept of hi-tech equipment is that its better than standard, so its pretty safe to assume its better than shooting a gun.
3. Hes based on Cyclops obvoulsy and I would also assume his gear is activated by thought
4. Punisher was on the ground in a less than ideal position and wasn't expecting to run out of bullets. In other words it harder to dodge something when you didn't think you needed to dodge in the first place.
5. I could possibly argue proximity.
1. I don't believe all energy weapons are light-speed. But if it was, what does that mean you're saying Frank's reflexes are?
2. That's an assumption. You'd need actual evidence to support it.
3. So is that.
4. That's a fair point, but she's still faster.
5. It would still have trouble matching the Cass feat you posted, imo.
