Frieza vs planets of superhumans

Originally posted by dadudemon
Namekian fusion is an exponential power in increase.

Piccolo was between 3500-20,000 before fusing with Nail. How do I know?

When he fought Nappa, it was, at most, 3500. Not much of a different in his power would have occured before he fused with Nail.

Nail was 42,000. Add those power levels up and you still do not get something even close to 500,000+. Frieza's second form was supposed to be over a million. Piccolo was something like 800,000-1,000,000 when he fought second form Frieza.

Obviously, the power jump was exponential when he fused with Nail. The exponential growth is about a power of 1.28.

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_power_levels

That same would hold true when he fused with Kami.

So, if we assume the power jump is close to 1.28, every time they fuse (it could be higher or lower), it would take only 3 fusions with Nail to create a power level greater than 120,000,000.

Originally posted by menokokoro
Soooo, what you are saying, is that I was right? 😆

If you claimed it was exponential growth to fuse.....YES! 😄

When he fought Nappa, it was, at most, 3500. Not much of a different in his power would have occured before he fused with Nail.

Training with King Kai, that can account for a lot.

Well, in filler at least, even Yamcha was stronger than the normal members of the Ginyu Force.

But that is filler.

How strong Piccolo is is hard to say.

I'd say he's about as strong as Goku when he fought Vegeta. Since they had both trained with King Kai then.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If you claimed it was exponential growth to fuse.....YES! 😄

But just to throw it out there: Nail's PL would have to increase by 300x before he'd reach final form Frieza's level (42,000 x 300 = 12,600,000... Final form Frieza's PL -at 100%- was 12,000,000.) So that means if he did a 3-Namek fusion, he'd have to get a 150x power boost with each fusion. Just can't see that happening. /shrug

Originally posted by King Kandy
I'd say he's about as strong as Goku when he fought Vegeta. Since they had both trained with King Kai then.

Originally posted by Galan007
Well, even if a Namek's power increases 3x with every other Namek they fuse with, it still doesn't amount to some kind of super-duper amalgam that would wtfpwn Frieza. For instance, Nail's PL = 42,000. If he merged with a random Namek and got a 3x boost in power, his PL would then bump to 126,000. If he were to then fuse with yet another Namek and receive an additional 3x boost, he'd jump to a PL of 378,000 -- so right there we have a 3-Namek fusion that doesn't even amount to base from Frieza's PL.

But just to throw it out there: Nail's PL would have to increase by 300x before he'd reach final form Frieza's level (42,000 x 300 = 12,600,000... Final form Frieza's PL -at 100%- was 12,000,000.) So that means if he did a 3-Namek fusion, he'd have to get a 150x power boost with each fusion. Just can't see that happening. /shrug

I think he was significantly stronger then that. For one, Piccolo was quite a bit more powerful when he first got to King Kai's planet then Goku was when he first got there (if you recall, Piccolo was able to catch Bubbles right off the bat like it was nothing.) Secondly, when Piccolo was first resurrected/transported to Namek, he could sense Frieza's power and still wasn't worried about fighting him -- and that was before he fused with Nail. I realize that isn't the best power gauge out there, but it should count for something...

But where would Nail get the time to even perform all of these fusions and then you have to remember, there were only 200 namekians and some of them were children. Frieza can shoot a casual blast and take out the entire population of Namekians if he wanted to. Then the fusion wasn't something that happened instantly, it took time, time that Nail won't have.

I thought Frieza and Goku power level was higher than 12 million.

Originally posted by carver9
But where would Nail get the time to even perform all of these fusions and then you have to remember, there were only 200 namekians and some of them were children. Frieza can shoot a casual blast and take out the entire population of Namekians if he wanted to. Then the fusion wasn't something that happened instantly, it took time, time that Nail won't have.

Originally posted by Q99
Training with King Kai, that can account for a lot.

It can only count up to how much Goku grew minus a bit, which is about 8000, at the most.

Goku trained for an entire year with King Kai and Piccolo and the others only got to train for almost 2 months.

Goku was also given more specialized training.

This leads me to believe Piccolo was between 3500 (his powered up form against Nappa) and 20,000. That's a generous jump from 3500 using the "8000" number. I should say he could be, at the most, only (8000 * 1/10) + 3500 = 4300

Why 1/10? Cause the trip to Namek took one month, it took them several days to leave right after the fight, and several days passed on Namek while they were there:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2894-1/dragon-ball/chapter-245.html

That scene shows Bulma visiting the ship very shortly after the fight ended (she was transported from the hospital where Gohan was, to that site.)

She said that they would leave in 5 days but it changes to 10 days, here:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2894-6/dragon-ball/chapter-245.html

Then here it says it took them 37 days:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2895-14/dragon-ball/chapter-246.html

So 37 +10 = 47 days since Piccolo died.

Goku went from earth to Namek in 6 days. Total days so far: 53. Since Goku arrived on Namek AFTER the Ginyu force, 53 is how many days passed before Piccolo was revived....54 at the most.

Here, we see how much time has passed during a dozen or so chapters since this arch started: half a day.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2909-11/dragon-ball/chapter-260.html

So we know they weren't pissing around for many days before Piccolo came back.

But we must continue...

Here, the Ginyu force will take 5 days to arrive on Namek (this would put it around 52 days).

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2913-5/dragon-ball/chapter-264.html

But Vegeta thinks it will be 3 or 4 days, here:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2919-3/dragon-ball/chapter-270.html

Let's go with the high end estimate...so total days are after 5 days have passed would be 52 days.

Four days pass since that cave scene.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2919-13/dragon-ball/chapter-270.html

So our total days are at 52, not 53. The Ginyu force arrived very shortly after that statement.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2921-1/dragon-ball/chapter-272.html

And in the same day, Piccolo is brought to planet Namek.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2943-1/dragon-ball/chapter-294.html

It looks like night because they just summoned the dragon (Namek didn't have any nights.)

So a total time of 52 days passed. POSSIBLY 53 days if you want to add more time for the trips across Namek (which seemed to take 4 hours, full speed, for Krillin, before he got a power boost (2 hours after)).

Goku's power, during his fight with Raditz, was around 420-480 (I forget.)

He increased it to 8000 with his training on Namek in one year.

Piccolo only got 53 days, at the very most. Goku's special ability, if he can be said to have one, is his enormous growth speed. I do not think Piccolo could grow to close to 1 million, which is around what Freiza's second form was supposed to be, in only 58 days. His power growth is not as steep as Goku's. If Nail's power was added to Piccolo's, that means that Piccolo would have to have been very close to 1 million, already, because 42,000 + x ~ 1,000,000. X has to be close to a million and x is Piccolo's power level. Piccolo does NOT have the Saiyan ability to become significantly stronger than his previous form, right after near death. Vegeta went from 18,000 to 24,000 after his near death recovery from fighting the Z-Warriors on Earth. So that's a jump of 33% each time. That could be exponential growth, for sure. But Piccolo does not have that ability.

On another thought, let's see how far Goku went in his training till he fought the Ginyu: His power rose all the way to 180,000. He DOES say "Kao Ken" so his power may be just 90,000.

But let's see if the numbers work out for 180,000, first, then we'll go lower end estimate.

His power against Vegeta and Nappa was 8000.

He got a Senzu Bean from Yajirobe or Korrin (I don't remember) when he was in the hospital. So that's a 33% growth, there.

Then, he had 7 left for his trip in space, for his 6 day flight to Namek. He used 4 and had 3 left (which he used to revive Gohan, Krillin, and Vegeta.) So that's 4 other instances of 33% growth for a total of 5 instances. Easy power growth...

8000 * (1.3333333333333333^5) ~ 33712

Does 33712 equal 180,000? No.

Does 33712 equal 90,000? No.

So, as I stated, Goku's special ability is his ability to grow faster in strength. If we go to the low end, we could use logs to figure out Goku's level up to 90,000.

Originally posted by dadudemon
If you claimed it was exponential growth to fuse.....YES! 😄

K, I did the calculation using logs.

In this equation, 8000*(x^5) = 90000

x = 1.6227 OR, in other words, a 62.27% growth rate, each time he heals. That's a much greater heal rate than Vegeta's 33%: almost double Vegeta's.

Anyway, if we are to take it a step further and say that Kao Ken was not used and use 1800000, that math is much more in favor of a gigantic growth.

1.8639 or, 86.39% growth each time Goku recovers.

Piccolo is no where near a Saiyan, in that regard, so Vegeta is more than proof that he could not come anywhere near the 900,000+ power level increase required to fuse with Nail and be nearly even with the 1,000,000+ form of Frieza's second form.

In other words, Namekian fusion is an exponential growth...a huge one.

Piccolo went from around a power level of 1,000,000 to well over 150,000,000 because he had to fuse with Kami, Goku was 150,000,000 when he fought Frieza, Android 17 was far stronger than Trunks who was supposedly around Goku's even more powerful form when he came back to Earth...meaning...Piccolo's fusion with Kami exponentially raised his power level from 1,000,000 to something well over 150,000,000...just the same as it did raising his power from 3500-20,000 to near a million.

What do we have? We can see if they numbers work out...

We'll go with 20,000 for his King Kai training, to be safe. I'll pretend that his fusion with Kami increased his power to 250,000,000.

20000^x = 1,000,000

x = 1.395

1000000^x = 250,000,000

x = 1.399

That's remarkably close and it scales very nicely.

I do not think Toriyama worked out algorithms in his studio before coming up with these things...but it just happened to work out fairly well.

I would consider the fusion dance technique to NOT be as complete as the earings or Namekians fusions...but to be close.

Originally posted by carver9
BuI thought Frieza and Goku power level was higher than 12 million.

It is. Frieza's is 120,000,000 and Goku's is 150,000,000.

Originally posted by menokokoro
Well...I didn't per se, but I did say that they could win through fusion.

I worked it out. It's fairly exponential in growth.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It can only count up to how much Goku grew minus a bit, which is about 8000, at the most.

Goku trained for an entire year with King Kai and Piccolo and the others only got to train for almost 2 months.

Goku was also given more specialized training.

This leads me to believe Piccolo was between 3500 (his powered up form against Nappa) and 20,000. That's a generous jump from 3500 using the "8000" number. I should say he could be, at the most, only (8000 * 1/10) + 3500 = 4300

Why 1/10? Cause the trip to Namek took one month, it took them several days to leave right after the fight, and several days passed on Namek while they were there:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2894-1/dragon-ball/chapter-245.html

That scene shows Bulma visiting the ship very shortly after the fight ended (she was transported from the hospital where Gohan was, to that site.)

She said that they would leave in 5 days but it changes to 10 days, here:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2894-6/dragon-ball/chapter-245.html

Then here it says it took them 37 days:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2895-14/dragon-ball/chapter-246.html

So 37 +10 = 47 days since Piccolo died.

Goku went from earth to Namek in 6 days. Total days so far: 53. Since Goku arrived on Namek AFTER the Ginyu force, 53 is how many days passed before Piccolo was revived....54 at the most.

Here, we see how much time has passed during a dozen or so chapters since this arch started: half a day.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2909-11/dragon-ball/chapter-260.html

So we know they weren't pissing around for many days before Piccolo came back.

But we must continue...

Here, the Ginyu force will take 5 days to arrive on Namek (this would put it around 52 days).

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2913-5/dragon-ball/chapter-264.html

But Vegeta thinks it will be 3 or 4 days, here:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2919-3/dragon-ball/chapter-270.html

Let's go with the high end estimate...so total days are after 5 days have passed would be 52 days.

Four days pass since that cave scene.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2919-13/dragon-ball/chapter-270.html

So our total days are at 52, not 53. The Ginyu force arrived very shortly after that statement.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2921-1/dragon-ball/chapter-272.html

And in the same day, Piccolo is brought to planet Namek.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2943-1/dragon-ball/chapter-294.html

It looks like night because they just summoned the dragon (Namek didn't have any nights.)

So a total time of 52 days passed. POSSIBLY 53 days if you want to add more time for the trips across Namek (which seemed to take 4 hours, full speed, for Krillin, before he got a power boost (2 hours after)).

Goku's power, during his fight with Raditz, was around 420-480 (I forget.)

He increased it to 8000 with his training on Namek in one year.

Piccolo only got 53 days, at the very most. Goku's special ability, if he can be said to have one, is his enormous growth speed. I do not think Piccolo could grow to close to 1 million, which is around what Freiza's second form was supposed to be, in only 58 days. His power growth is not as steep as Goku's. If Nail's power was added to Piccolo's, that means that Piccolo would have to have been very close to 1 million, already, because 42,000 + x ~ 1,000,000. X has to be close to a million and x is Piccolo's power level. Piccolo does NOT have the Saiyan ability to become significantly stronger than his previous form, right after near death. Vegeta went from 18,000 to 24,000 after his near death recovery from fighting the Z-Warriors on Earth. So that's a jump of 33% each time. That could be exponential growth, for sure. But Piccolo does not have that ability.

On another thought, let's see how far Goku went in his training till he fought the Ginyu: His power rose all the way to 180,000. He DOES say "Kao Ken" so his power may be just 90,000.

But let's see if the numbers work out for 180,000, first, then we'll go lower end estimate.

His power against Vegeta and Nappa was 8000.

He got a Senzu Bean from Yajirobe or Korrin (I don't remember) when he was in the hospital. So that's a 33% growth, there.

Then, he had 7 left for his trip in space, for his 6 day flight to Namek. He used 4 and had 3 left (which he used to revive Gohan, Krillin, and Vegeta.) So that's 4 other instances of 33% growth for a total of 5 instances. Easy power growth...

8000 * (1.3333333333333333^5) ~ 33712

Does 33712 equal 180,000? No.

Does 33712 equal 90,000? No.

So, as I stated, Goku's special ability is his ability to grow faster in strength. If we go to the low end, we could use logs to figure out Goku's level up to 90,000.

Hhhmmm... you got a couple of things wrong there. Goku training majority of the time on King Ki planet was him getting use to the intense gravity and that was majority of the time. The reason why his body was unable to handle it was due to his low power level.

Piccolo didn't need this training, his body was basically already adjusted to the intense gravity. Then you have to look at it like this. Piccolo asked Ki to train him instead of going through all of the foolishness of adjusting to the gravity but ki denied him. That when Piccolo told ki that he was going to train on his own "which he did". I THINK (can't remember) that KK gave in and decided to train him but the training was done off panel.

Piccolo rceived training and majority of it was off panel. There really isn't a telling how powerful Piccolo was. Remember, Piccolo was able to take on all 3 of the Z fighters that were there with him and going by the increase in power that Goku received after leaving King Ki planet (and Ki himself stating that the 3 Z fighters that were there became stronger than Goku after leaving his planet), Piccolo was able to stalemate 3 people with a power level of 18k or possibly higher. Let's not forget, there were still days left after his fight against the 3 which lead to additional training.

Another thing... the Goku that faced Captain Ginyu power level was higher than 180k. He asked Ginyu if he wanted him to continue increasing so we really don't have a gauge on where he was at power wise.

What we do know is after healing from his near death experience... his power level jumped exponentially. He did well against a frieza that power level was over 10 million which is INSANE.

Another thing, the Goku that fought Nappa and Vegeta power level was higher than 8000... you have to remember, he was using kao ken which increased it to 20k during his fight against Vegeta... the 8000 quote was from a holding back Goku.

One more thing... Goku didn't train for a year on the Ki planet... a couple of months went by on his journey to the Ki planet on snake way.

Originally posted by Galan007
Well, even if a Namek's power increases 3x with every other Namek they fuse with, it still doesn't amount to some kind of super-duper amalgam that would wtfpwn Frieza. For instance, Nail's PL = 42,000. If he merged with a random Namek and got a 3x boost in power, his PL would then bump to 126,000. If he were to then fuse with yet another Namek and receive an additional 3x boost, he'd jump to a PL of 378,000 -- so right there we have a 3-Namek fusion that doesn't even amount to base from Frieza's PL.

But just to throw it out there: Nail's PL would have to increase by 300x before he'd reach final form Frieza's level (42,000 x 300 = 12,600,000... Final form Frieza's PL -at 100%- was 12,000,000.) So that means if he did a 3-Namek fusion, he'd have to get a 150x power boost with each fusion. Just can't see that happening. /shrug

You're a bit off, there. I already worked out the growth and the power is close to 1.39 for each fusion. Nail had to fuse with Piccolo because Piccolo was fully healthy and Nail was going to die, so, Piccolo was the one that got the boost. Nail would actually be stronger than Piccolo so if Nail was the one that did the mergings, we'd have a much more powerful base to work with...making the exponential growth much greater than Piccolo's.

Here's how it works out if Nail was the one fusing:

42000^(1.397*3) = 1,053,840,595

Also known as "three fusions", like I stated earlier. Two fusions would not be enough to take out final form, full power Frieza.

Originally posted by Galan007
I think he was significantly stronger then that. For one, Piccolo was quite a bit more powerful when he first got to King Kai's planet then Goku was when he first got there (if you recall, Piccolo was able to catch Bubbles right off the bat like it was nothing.) Secondly, when Piccolo was first resurrected/transported to Namek, he could sense Frieza's power and still wasn't worried about fighting him -- and that was before he fused with Nail. I realize that isn't the best power gauge out there, but it should count for something...

He wasn't much stronger than that, actually. 20,000 is pushing it.

Additionally, you're logic of him being much stronger actually greatly hurts your conclusion. IF he was that much more powerful when he got to King Kai's planet, then the amount of training he had to do to get over the gravity was much less than Goku's. Keep in mind that Goku trained in 10 times the gravity of King Kai's planet: 100x gravity. He had to work his way up and got "used to it" while pushing his life to the edge of death 4 times. Goku also has a much higher growth potential than any Namekian.

In other words, it is literally impossible for Piccolo to have gotten very much stronger on King Kai's planet after only having trained there for, at the very most, 53 days. Unless you're going to put forth that Piccolo has a far greater growth rate than Goku, which is directly wrong.

Additionally, Piccolo does NOT think he can beat Frieza when he gets to Namek...he sh*ts his pants when he finally senses Frieza:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2943-2/dragon-ball/chapter-294.html

Here, Nail says that he would have to join his other half to be strong enough to take on Frieza:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2944-1/dragon-ball/chapter-295.html

We know that the growth is exponential, so my numbers work out perfectly to show us Piccolo is around 20,000.

Also, the Namekian says, quite clearly, that his power will increase several times if he joins with him:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2944-2/dragon-ball/chapter-295.html

We have irrefutible evidence that it is a very very large increase in power.

Here Piccolo is, AFTER fusing, saying he can beat Frieza, now.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2944-6/dragon-ball/chapter-295.html

His power jumped much higher than the small Frieza's form, making Piccolo know that he could beat him.

And here, Frieza just slightly less than doubled his power level.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2945-9/dragon-ball/chapter-296.html

Originally posted by carver9
Hhhmmm... you got a couple of things wrong there. Goku training majority of the time on King Ki planet was him getting use to the intense gravity and that was majority of the time. The reason why his body was unable to handle it was due to his low power level.

Piccolo didn't need this training, his body was basically already adjusted to the intense gravity. Then you have to look at it like this. Piccolo asked Ki to train him instead of going through all of the foolishness of adjusting to the gravity but ki denied him. That when Piccolo told ki that he was going to train on his own "which he did". I THINK (can't remember) that KK gave in and decided to train him but the training was done off panel.

Piccolo rceived training and majority of it was off panel. There really isn't a telling how powerful Piccolo was. Remember, Piccolo was able to take on all 3 of the Z fighters that were there with him and going by the increase in power that Goku received after leaving King Ki planet (and Ki himself stating that the 3 Z fighters that were there became stronger than Goku after leaving his planet), Piccolo was able to stalemate 3 people with a power level of 18k or possibly higher. Let's not forget, there were still days left after his fight against the 3 which lead to additional training.

Another thing... the Goku that faced Captain Ginyu power level was higher than 180k. He asked Ginyu if he wanted him to continue increasing so we really don't have a gauge on where he was at power wise.

What we do know is after healing from his near death experience... his power level jumped exponentially. He did well against a frieza that power level was over 10 million which is INSANE.

Another thing, the Goku that fought Nappa and Vegeta power level was higher than 8000... you have to remember, he was using kao ken which increased it to 20k during his fight against Vegeta... the 8000 quote was from a holding back Goku.

One more thing... Goku didn't train for a year on the Ki planet... a couple of months went by on his journey to the Ki planet on snake way.

Nothing I said was wrong. It was perfect. I am not even kidding.

I'll go down the list of things that you got wrong.

First, Goku arrived with 158 days left to train out of the year he had.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2860-3/dragon-ball/chapter-211.html

40 days, Goku finally got strong enough to catch Bubbles.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2860-11/dragon-ball/chapter-211.html

Then he was taught the Kao Ken and Genki Dama.

So, no, it took Goku only 40 days with the majority of his time left to spend on learning the advanced techniques.

158 - 40 = 118 days.

So, you're wrong there.

Edit, just checked, it took the other 4 much less time than it did Goku.

Goku took 207 days to get there with a power level around 450...while wearing weighted clothes.

The weakest of them was much stronger than a power level of 450, so, yes, it would not take them nearly as long...but guess how long it took?

It took them from the time Goku was in space for about a day...or a total time of 47 or 48 days to get there.

So they were much stronger than Goku was when he made the trip (which is obvious.)

Not one of them, however, was nearly as strong as Goku who made the trip back to earth in a day and his power level was 8000 when he got back to earth.

So what did we learn from that?

Piccolo had about 6 days of training.

CAN piccolo increase his power from around 3500 to one million in that time frame when Goku increased his from 450 to 8000 in far more time?

No.

How do we know this/

Because Piccolo was around 3500 when he got to King Kai's planet, had 6 days to train, and Goku progressed only to 180,000 by the time he got to Namek when he used his Saiyan regeneration ability no less than 5 times using Senzu beans. In other words, Piccolo wasn't even close to a million.

Also. NO training occured on panel for Piccolo or anyone, for htat manner. You're thinking of the Anime...stick to the manga. So all the rest of what you talked about is null and does not apply to what I said. Also, base form Goku had a power level of 8000 against Vegeta and Nappa. Kai Ken doesn't count and it's quite logical why it does not: we are trying to use the base form Goku as a comparable measure against Frieza...so we have a meter stick for Piccolo's power.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're a bit off, there. I already worked out the growth and the power is close to 1.39 for each fusion. Nail had to fuse with Piccolo because Piccolo was fully healthy and Nail was going to die, so, Piccolo was the one that got the boost. Nail would actually be stronger than Piccolo so if Nail was the one that did the mergings, we'd have a much more powerful base to work with...making the exponential growth much greater than Piccolo's.

Here's how it works out if Nail was the one fusing:

42000^(1.397*3) = 1,053,840,595

Also known as "three fusions", like I stated earlier. Two fusions would not be enough to take out final form, full power Frieza.

Like I mentioned, that would put Nail -beyond- SSJ Vegeta after he exited the time chamber, and roughly equal to USSJ Trunks (both of whom were FAR more powerful than second form Cell.) Surely you can see why that's hard for me to believe, considering that even -after- Piccolo fused with Nail/Kami, he was still barely equal to FIRST form Cell.... So how you think Nail would jump to levels WELL beyond that, just by merging with 2 other no name/weak Nameks, is beyond me..?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Additionally, Piccolo does NOT think he can beat Frieza when he gets to Namek...he sh*ts his pants when he finally senses Frieza:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2943-2/dragon-ball/chapter-294.html

All I see Piccolo doing there is noting Frieza's large power level in comparison to the others he sensed. After noting the aforementioned, he -immediately- begins flying in that direction to confront Frieza. He clearly wasn't worried about fighting him whatsoever.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Here, Nail says that he would have to join his other half to be strong enough to take on Frieza:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2944-1/dragon-ball/chapter-295.html

Originally posted by dadudemon
Also, the Namekian says, quite clearly, that his power will increase several times if he joins with him:

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2944-2/dragon-ball/chapter-295.html

We have irrefutible evidence that it is a very very large increase in power.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Here Piccolo is, AFTER fusing, saying he can beat Frieza, now.

http://www.mangareader.net/105-2944-6/dragon-ball/chapter-295.html

His power jumped much higher than the small Frieza's form, making Piccolo know that he could beat him.

That said, his little outburst there can easily (and rightfully) be written off as hyperbole.

---

Aside from all of that, the Namekians having enough time to preform 2 different fusions before Frieza blasted the shit out of the field, is slim to none -- it's not exactly a fast process, after all.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, still not buying a 3-Namek fusion possessing a PL anywhere near 120,000,000, as you stated earlier.

Despite it's fact? 😬

Originally posted by Galan007
Like I mentioned, that would put Nail -beyond- SSJ Vegeta after he exited the time chamber, and roughly equal to USSJ Trunks (both of whom were FAR more powerful than second form Cell.) Surely you can see why that's hard for me to believe, considering that even -after- Piccolo fused with Nail/Kami, he was still barely equal to FIRST form Cell.... So how you think Nail would jump to levels WELL beyond that, just by merging with 2 other no name/weak Nameks, is beyond me..?

Uhhhh...yeah! That's how it works. 😬 When piccolo fused again, he was somewhere between SSJ and FPSSJ. He was stronger than 16 but equal to 17. 17 man handled 2 or more SSJs like they were nothing. So, yeah, he had BETTER be between those two after 3 fusions. 😬

Originally posted by Galan007
"Shits his pants", eh?

All I see Piccolo doing there is noting Frieza's large power level in comparison to the others he sensed. After noting the aforementioned, he -immediately- begins flying in that direction to confront Frieza. He clearly wasn't worried about fighting him whatsoever.

Yeah, Piccolo shit his pants. As fact, he didn't say he could do it (after sensing his real power) until AFTER he fused...and that was before Frieza went to form 2. 🙂

You're horrendously pwned on this point. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, that's when Frieza was still in his -base- form. Considering that's the form Nail fought, and considering he wouldn't have been able to sense Frieza's power beyond that form, it's safe to say he was referring exclusively to a Piccolo/Kami fusion being superior to Frieza's -base level- power.

You missed the point entirely. facepalm

If he joined with Nail, he'd be strong enough to beat the 530,000 PL Frieza. If he joined with Kami, he'd be strong enough to beat the 530,000 PL Frieza. AKA, the progression for either fusion would be around the same.

Originally posted by Galan007
Never said it wasn't a large increase (hence why I went with a 3x power boost per fusion in my last post.) However, your 'calcs' are clearly WAY off. A 3-Namek fusion would/does -not- have a PL anywhere near what you stated earlier (again, blatant evidence of this can be found by simply looking at Piccolo's fusion history.)

You actually used 3 times...which arbitrary...and definitely wrong.

And, no, the calcs are perfect. Deal with it. Not sure why this shatters some sort of dream of yours about DBZ, but you really need to get over it. It's a exponential increase to fuse.

Additionally, we get to clearly see three fusions and, yes, it's WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than enough to handle final form Frieza at 100%...which is what this is about. Nail had a higher base, 42,000, so he would have been much higher had he done the fusions. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
Uhuh. Piccolo ALSO said that he could beat Frieza "no matter how strong he is" -- which couldn't have been further from the truth.

You're wrong.

At the time, Frieza was still his base form. He could have easily beat that form, at the time. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
That said, his little outburst there can easily (and rightfully) be written off as hyperbole.

Incorrect. It is correct: you've missed a key point that madee you incorrectly conclude.

Originally posted by Galan007
Aside from all of that, the Namekians having enough time to preform 2 different fusions before Frieza blasted the shit out of the field, is slim to none -- it's not exactly a fast process, after all.

The thread makes no mention of a scouter so, no, you're wrong there, too. 🙂

There's another reason why they can't fuse and it's very obvious: I would like to submit the reason why if you give up your futile argument that horrendously fails (and will always fail due to the three Namekian fusions clearly being exponential) and you'll like it. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, still not buying a 3-Namek fusion possessing a PL anywhere near 120,000,000, as you stated earlier.

Like I mentioned, that would put Nail -beyond- SSJ Vegeta after he exited the time chamber, and roughly equal to USSJ Trunks (both of whom were FAR more powerful than second form Cell.) Surely you can see why that's hard for me to believe, considering that even -after- Piccolo fused with Nail/Kami, he was still barely equal to FIRST form Cell.... So how you think Nail would jump to levels WELL beyond that, just by merging with 2 other no name/weak Nameks, is beyond me..?

"Shits his pants", eh?

All I see Piccolo doing there is noting Frieza's large power level in comparison to the others he sensed. After noting the aforementioned, he -immediately- begins flying in that direction to confront Frieza. He clearly wasn't worried about fighting him whatsoever.

Yeah, that's when Frieza was still in his -base- form. Considering that's the form Nail fought, and considering he wouldn't have been able to sense Frieza's power beyond that form, it's safe to say he was referring exclusively to a Piccolo/Kami fusion being superior to Frieza's -base level- power.

Never said it wasn't a large increase (hence why I went with a 3x power boost per fusion in my last post.) However, your 'calcs' are clearly WAY off. A 3-Namek fusion would/does -not- have a PL anywhere near what you stated earlier (again, blatant evidence of this can be found by simply looking at Piccolo's fusion history.)

Uhuh. Piccolo ALSO said that he could beat Frieza "no matter how strong he is" -- which couldn't have been further from the truth.

That said, his little outburst there can easily (and rightfully) be written off as hyperbole.

---

Aside from all of that, the Namekians having enough time to preform 2 different fusions before Frieza blasted the shit out of the field, is slim to none -- it's not exactly a fast process, after all.

Good post Galan.

I agree with all of this.

Eh, someone just cuts Frieza in half with a sword.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Eh, someone just cuts Frieza in half with a sword.

HA!

They have to be fast enough, though.

Also, Goku mentions that Frieza must of trained really really hard to get as powerful as he does. Since his parents are obviously very rich, it does not seem implausible that his parents would allow him to get the very best Ki and martial arts training in the universe. Additionally, his species seems to have a long life-span because he looks the exact same when he destroys Vegeta, as he does when he's on Namek.

Additionally, all of DB after the Frieza saga has a gigantic plot hole: any of the saiyans or half saiyans can QUICKLY defeat any foe they are up against by using the technique that Goku and Vegeta did during the Namek Saga: have someone hurt them near to death and have Dende heal them. Do this about 3 or 4 times and no one comes close in power to defeating them. Genius idea, right? Well, not really...cause they already thought of it during the Namek Saga. 😐