HOTU vs. The Presence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just like a darkseid/xmen crossover. The characters are real yet this appearance isn't canon. By your logic every crossover counts since the characters are real. Laughin.

All except those were different companies. This was the same company with a character with only one stand alone title that originated from another canon title.

Either way, toaa outsmarted thanos in the end, but outsmarted isn't really proper diction. Toaa actually used thanos. He was a puppet the entire time and he will be to presence as well. To say that a given character can "out-god" god is ridiculous. Think about it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
And can have his power taken and Thanos has shown the ability to handle supreme power. 2+2=4. Just like a darkseid/xmen crossover. The characters are real yet this appearance isn't canon. By your logic every crossover counts since the characters are real. Laughin.

Originally posted by Sirius77
All except those were different companies. This was the same company with a character with only one stand alone title that originated from another canon title.

Either way, toaa outsmarted thanos in the end, but outsmarted isn't really proper diction. Toaa actually used thanos. He was a puppet the entire time and he will be to presence as well. To say that a given character can "out-god" god is ridiculous. Think about it.

Uhm, Thanos was tricked but found the loophole out of the problem showing even he can fix and save reality even though the supreme being could not do it himself.

This is a battle and Thanos has the power to easily beat the presence without any argument being presented how the presence wins only that he does.

Therefore I accept your concession.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
He can have his power taken in the same way that TOAA had its power taken away by Thanos 😉 . When those beings took the power of Yahweh that didn't mean that Yahweh didn't still have his power. and Lucifer managed to still trick those guys anyways. You're arguments are flawed and skewed in favor of Thanos on purpose. 😉

Thanos wins unless you can present an argument in the dcu of how the presence can in otherwise you have nothing.

🙂

Originally posted by quanchi112
The company decides what is canon and what isn't. That's the point. Just because a dcu character comes into vertigo or vice versa until their histories are mentioned or tied in completely only those appearances are canon especially when didio has stated they are separate.

Uhm, Thanos was tricked but found the loophole out of the problem showing even he can fix and save reality even though the supreme being could not do it himself.

This is a battle and Thanos has the power to easily beat the presence without any argument being presented how the presence wins only that he does.

Therefore I accept your concession.

Cool story bro.

There are vertigo characters under DC titles. Just recently st was brought into brightest day. They have merged the two continuities. Thus the name DC/Vertigo as opposed to Vertigo and DC. They have all been tied in, read Brightest Day, or DOV, Day of Judgement, ect.... You aren't recognizing these instances or what they imply because you know it would mean an instant lose for thanos.

You're wrong. He wasn't tricked, he was used. Just like he is by Death or any other cosmic entity that needs a tool. Toaa was no different, he planned it from the beginning, he just allowed thanos to believe that he was doing his own thing. So why do something like that when you could get a power hungry little whelp to do it for you and teach a lesson at the same time? He attained power, and yet again couldn't hold onto it. That's not supremacy, it's incompetence. The Presence or Toaa have none of that. That's only one of the reasons why either one would win.

I didn't give a concession. You've just been wanking thanos so hard that you convinced yourself that I did. Carry on though.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Cool story bro.

There are vertigo characters under DC titles. Just recently st was brought into brightest day. They have merged the two continuities. Thus the name DC/Vertigo as opposed to Vertigo and DC. They have all been tied in, read Brightest Day, or DOV, Day of Judgement, ect.... You aren't recognizing these instances or what they imply because you know it would mean an instant lose for thanos.

You're wrong. He wasn't tricked, he was used. Just like he is by Death or any other cosmic entity that needs a tool. Toaa was no different, he planned it from the beginning, he just allowed thanos to believe that he was doing his own thing. So why do something like that when you could get a power hungry little whelp to do it for you and teach a lesson at the same time? He attained power, and yet again couldn't hold onto it. That's not supremacy, it's incompetence. The Presence or Toaa have none of that. That's only one of the reasons why either one would win.

I didn't give a concession. You've just been wanking thanos so hard that you convinced yourself that I did. Carry on though.

Here's the thing by your logic all what if's and elseworlds count since it's done within the same company.

Thanos did have the choice to do whatever he wanted he was only tricked into taking the power but what he decided to do with it was his own choice. Sorry you can't accept it. Thanos not only saved reality which the supreme being couldn't do on his own he also bettered himself and survived the process. Thanos was needed for it the supreme being doesn't go around teaching lessons the supreme being needed aid and Thanos. Boom.

That isn't a reason either can win. Thanos has the means to win you're argument or lack thereof falls apart in two different spots. One being you can't say someone wins based on a title alone. Secondly, Thanos achieved what even the supreme being of marvel could not.

Thanos absorbs his power which has been proven on panel in dc and in Thanos' book.

^ no. Now your just being deliberately asinine. There is a difference in being brought into continuity and being part of a franchise. If you can't tell the difference then I just don't know how you function in society with that kind of logic. You twist and bend whatever you want to suit your purposes and whenever someone else remotely tries the same thing you attempt to crucify them as wankers. Bad form chap.

Originally posted by Uriel005
^ no. Now your just being deliberately asinine. There is a difference in being brought into continuity and being part of a franchise. If you can't tell the difference then I just don't know how you function in society with that kind of logic. You twist and bend whatever you want to suit your purposes and whenever someone else remotely tries the same thing you attempt to crucify them as wankers. Bad form chap.

I don't twist anything my case has always been based off of comics and then I hear lucy comments and what not trying to rationalize or take away from the portrayal of the presence within the dcu.

You misspelled champ.

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The company decides what is canon and what isn't. That's the point. Just because a dcu character comes into vertigo or vice versa until their histories are mentioned or tied in completely only those appearances are canon especially when didio has stated they are separate.

Uhm, Thanos was tricked but found the loophole out of the problem showing even he can fix and save reality even though the supreme being could not do it himself.

This is a battle and Thanos has the power to easily beat the presence without any argument being presented how the presence wins only that he does.

fine. so since the DC decided that a great amount of the vertigo stories take place within "the 52", then that makes it ALL canon right?

so Thanos was tricked into taking that power for himself?? when did that happen?? oh yea right............IT DIDNT. and as a matter of fact I believe this got explained to him by AW near the end too.

and proof that absorbing Creation = beating the Presence is wat again??

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am seeing those characters brought into but that doesn't suddenly make all of Lucy's actions canon to the dc verse. That's what you aren't understanding, sport.

Here's the thing by your logic all what if's and elseworlds count since it's done within the same company.

Thanos did have the choice to do whatever he wanted he was only tricked into taking the power but what he decided to do with it was his own choice. Sorry you can't accept it. Thanos not only saved reality which the supreme being couldn't do on his own he also bettered himself and survived the process. Thanos was needed for it the supreme being doesn't go around teaching lessons the supreme being needed aid and Thanos. Boom.

That isn't a reason either can win. Thanos has the means to win you're argument or lack thereof falls apart in two different spots. One being you can't say someone wins based on a title alone. Secondly, Thanos achieved what even the supreme being of marvel could not.

Thanos absorbs his power which has been proven on panel in dc and in Thanos' book.

if Lucy exists with the Vertigo universe, and the Vertigo-realm is STATED as being within "the 52", then I cant see how U can maintain that "his showings arent canon" with the rest of the DCU; thats just being pig-headed.

also, we saw that a few of the Elseworlds & Hypertime -characters have their own Earths, but I guess (according to you) only the feats that we saw in THAT REVELATION count as being valid for them, and not the watever book they made their 1st appearances in.......right??

😆

Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I haven't. Just because swamp thing jumps into the dcu that doesn't mean all vertigo characters and their entire histories are canon.

I don't twist anything my case has always been based off of comics and then I hear lucy comments and what not trying to rationalize or take away from the portrayal of the presence within the dcu.

You misspelled champ.

agreed, but it DOES mean that Lucifers history is canon since hes also shown up in Demon[U] & [U]Spectre[U], a [U]Superman[U] title, AND [U]Weird Mystery Tales, U really (once again) have *no valid argument* for trying to limit wat should & shouldnt be included as his "canon" when it comes to his appearances.

Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

fine. so since the DC decided that a great amount of the vertigo stories take place within "the 52", then that makes it ALL canon right?

so Thanos was tricked into taking that power for himself?? when did that happen?? oh yea right............IT DIDNT. and as a matter of fact I believe this got explained to him by AW near the end too.

and proof that absorbing Creation = beating the Presence is wat again??

if Lucy exists with the Vertigo universe, and the Vertigo-realm is STATED as being within "the 52", then I cant see how U can maintain that "his showings arent canon" with the rest of the DCU; thats just being pig-headed.

also, we saw that a few of the Elseworlds & Hypertime -characters have their own Earths, but I guess (according to you) only the feats that we saw in THAT REVELATION count as being valid for them, and not the watever book they made their 1st appearances in.......right??

😆

Tazer

I don't even need the paradise lost scan since cronus himself took on the presence's power in heaven in ww issue. Boom.

That isn't canon to the dcu it just means it exists within the entire dc multiverse just like a what if which did occur not to the main 616 though. You really don't even grasp this concept.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

agreed, but it DOES mean that Lucifers history is canon since hes also shown up in Demon[U] & [U]Spectre[U], a [U]Superman[U] title, AND [U]Weird Mystery Tales, U really (once again) have *no valid argument* for trying to limit wat should & shouldnt be included as his "canon" when it comes to his appearances.

Tazer

Either way we are dealing with the dcu presence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
And can have his power taken and Thanos has shown the ability to handle supreme power. 2+2=4. Just like a darkseid/xmen crossover. The characters are real yet this appearance isn't canon. By your logic every crossover counts since the characters are real. Laughin.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Actually no...no. Thanos has never defeated a supreme being. Nor come close.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was the supreme being and defeated all opposition easily. Now give me an example of the presence with a better combat feat. Can't wait.

Thats 2 false claims. Lets keep counting.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Actually no...he wasn't.

Thats 2 false claims. Lets keep counting.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am seeing those characters brought into but that doesn't suddenly make all of Lucy's actions canon to the dc verse. That's what you aren't understanding, sport.

Here's the thing by your logic all what if's and elseworlds count since it's done within the same company.

Thanos did have the choice to do whatever he wanted he was only tricked into taking the power but what he decided to do with it was his own choice. Sorry you can't accept it. Thanos not only saved reality which the supreme being couldn't do on his own he also bettered himself and survived the process. Thanos was needed for it the supreme being doesn't go around teaching lessons the supreme being needed aid and Thanos. Boom.

That isn't a reason either can win. Thanos has the means to win you're argument or lack thereof falls apart in two different spots. One being you can't say someone wins based on a title alone. Secondly, Thanos achieved what even the supreme being of marvel could not.

Thanos absorbs his power which has been proven on panel in dc and in Thanos' book.

The st example was one of many. Lucy and Michael have both made appearances not just in the "Vertigo" universe, but also in the mainstream "New Earth" universe as well. The fact that they both originate from only one source is indicative of the fact that that one source is in fact canon to the New Earth mainstream DCU. The fact that they have appeared multiple times solidifies this. By your logic, Marvel: The End isn't canon either. If you make an argument for one, you must apply it to everything applicable.

What ifs and Elseworlds are stated to different universes. There is ony one Lucy, one Mike and one Presence. Unless you would like to argue that there is more than one LT and more than one Toaa.

Thanos was used like a tool like he always is. Same as he was by death in ti. "Boom".

Thanos didn't achieve anything except for playing the role that Toaa wanted. Then he lost the power just like Toaa planned. To put thanos above the supreme being of Marvel is I think the most fanboyish thing I've ever come across really.

Also it's not about titles, it's about power, wisdom, and intelligence. Thanos absorbed Toaa's work, not Toaa himself. Toaa and the Presence are both above thanos and their own creations (which would include thanos and beings above him). If Anderson Silva bakes you a cake and you eat it, does that make you able to defeat Anderson Silva in unarmed combat? You're implying that it does Quan. Because both Presence and Toaa are above the things that they have made. Both would stomp thanos with or without the heart for that very reason, among a host of others. Don't be ridiculous.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It stated it multiple times he was the supreme being. Now tell me presence's greatest combat feat. Tell me how presence wins this based off of comics not your imagination.

He said himself he was tricked by the supreme being 😐. So unless he somehow tricked himself into giving up his own power...yeah, no just no.

Originally posted by Sirius77
The st example was one of many. Lucy and Michael have both made appearances not just in the "Vertigo" universe, but also in the mainstream "New Earth" universe as well. The fact that they both originate from only one source is indicative of the fact that that one source is in fact canon to the New Earth mainstream DCU. The fact that they have appeared multiple times solidifies this. By your logic, Marvel: The End isn't canon either. If you make an argument for one, you must apply it to everything applicable.

What ifs and Elseworlds are stated to different universes. There is ony one Lucy, one Mike and one Presence. Unless you would like to argue that there is more than one LT and more than one Toaa.

Thanos was used like a tool like he always is. Same as he was by death in ti. "Boom".

Thanos didn't achieve anything except for playing the role that Toaa wanted. Then he lost the power just like Toaa planned. To put thanos above the supreme being of Marvel is I think the most fanboyish thing I've ever come across really.

Also it's not about titles, it's about power, wisdom, and intelligence. Thanos absorbed Toaa's work, not Toaa himself. Toaa and the Presence are both above thanos and their own creations (which would include thanos and beings above him). If Anderson Silva bakes you a cake and you eat it, does that make you able to defeat Anderson Silva in unarmed combat? You're implying that it does Quan. Because both Presence and Toaa are above the things that they have made. Both would stomp thanos with or without the heart for that very reason, among a host of others. Don't be ridiculous.

Ne is one dc universe as are the other 52. Yes, probably one character but not all of their actions are canon. I also think any other universe' actions which affect all of reality and aren't even mentioned in the main dc reality.

Thanos came out on top like he always does. Thanos isn't all knowing but he does quickly do the best he can in the situations he finds himself in. Triple boom.

The supreme being needed Thanos. Thanos came out on top. This wasn't about teaching anyone a lesson it was about fixing the flaw with Thanos did. Quandruple boom.

Except we have seen a weaker character than Thanos Cronus absorb Presence's power. Thanos can do the same. You have no argument other than he's supreme. So is Thanos so he wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It stated it multiple times he was the supreme being. Now tell me presence's greatest combat feat. Tell me how presence wins this based off of comics not your imagination.

Tell me Toaa's greatest combat feat. If this is about combat feats now then by your logic, Gorgon> Toaa.

Since when do supreme beings need combat feats, since by all rights they technically made them?

What combat feats does thanos have that would even matter to Presence or Toaa? What, are you going to list absorption as a combat feat lol? Toaa just used thanos as an artist's sponge, sopped up his work and repainted it. Somehow you think that the sponge is > the artist.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No...thats 3 false claims.

He said himself he was tricked by the supreme being 😐. So unless he somehow tricked himself into giving up his own power...yeah, no just no.

I see you can't name a combat feat so concede you must.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Tell me Toaa's greatest combat feat. If this is about combat feats now then by your logic, Gorgon> Toaa.

Since when do supreme beings need combat feats, since by all rights they technically made them?

What combat feats does thanos have that would even matter to Presence or Toaa? What, are you going to list absorption as a combat feat lol? Toaa just used thanos as an artist's sponge, sopped up his work and repainted it. Somehow you think that the sponge is > the artist.

Everything I have argued has happened in comics. You saying presence wins based off of being supreme isn't a debating tactic since Thanos is also supreme.

TOAA is the writer this is based off of fictional comic book characters and Thanos has the power and the means to win.