HOTU vs. The Presence.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos' actions in marvel's the end were referenced making it canon in his own series. Boom. Lucy's actions in his solo title and this never affected the dcu so logically creation wasn't saved by elaine just the vertigo one. Double boom.

Ne is one dc universe as are the other 52. Yes, probably one character but not all of their actions are canon. I also think any other universe' actions which affect all of reality and aren't even mentioned in the main dc reality.

Thanos came out on top like he always does. Thanos isn't all knowing but he does quickly do the best he can in the situations he finds himself in. Triple boom.

The supreme being needed Thanos. Thanos came out on top. This wasn't about teaching anyone a lesson it was about fixing the flaw with Thanos did. Quandruple boom.

Except we have seen a weaker character than Thanos Cronus absorb Presence's power. Thanos can do the same. You have no argument other than he's supreme. So is Thanos so he wins.

Lol, Lucy's actions were referenced in Specter's mini. He was seen relaxing on a beach, then Michael was referenced as well. Twice. In Specter's mini when they fought, and then again in DOJ when they all came to the gates of heaven after Asmodel usurped Specter's power. Also, you're getting the continuity mixed up. The end of Lucy's series hasn't happened yet apparently. Elain may not have even become supreme yet. Also, the two continuities (if you like to call them that) are combined by the fact that they are both tied together through Lucy's reference of the GEB who was tied to characters such as Zatanna, Etrigan, ST, ect....

Also lol @ Cronus being weaker than thanos. He failed at keeping supreme power just like thanos did. The only difference is that he wasn't used as explicitly as thanos was. So Presence wins.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not just feats but also portrayal. Thanos was portrayed as supreme being and proved it. He showed he has the means to win based off of presence's showings.

Everything I have argued has happened in comics. You saying presence wins based off of being supreme isn't a debating tactic since Thanos is also supreme.

TOAA is the writer this is based off of fictional comic book characters and Thanos has the power and the means to win.

Lmao, so Toaa isn't implied to be supreme but thanos is? So based off the fact that Presence holds creation in his hands, is essentially dreaming up creation as he goes, and is outright said to be supreme isn't enough?

Everything that I've said has happened, all you have done throughout the entire duration of this argument is wank thanos. Thanos is not supreme, if he was, he wouldn't have lost the power of Toaa's creation through incompetence, greed, and lack of understanding.

So thanos can punch the writers in the face. You're trolling now.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Lol, Lucy's actions were referenced in Specter's mini. He was seen relaxing on a beach, then Michael was referenced as well. Twice. In Specter's mini when they fought, and then again in DOJ when they all came to the gates of heaven after Asmodel usurped Specter's power. Also, you're getting the continuity mixed up. The end of Lucy's series hasn't happened yet apparently. Elain may not have even become supreme yet. Also, the two continuities (if you like to call them that) are combined by the fact that they are both tied together through Lucy's reference of the GEB who was tied to characters such as Zatanna, Etrigan, ST, ect....

Also lol @ Cronus being weaker than thanos. He failed at keeping supreme power just like thanos did. The only difference is that he wasn't used as explicitly as thanos was. So Presence wins.

The characters can interact yes but the actions of lucy's series aren't canon which you yourself agree to since you stated it happens in the future. Wonderfully nuking your own argument as to it being canon.

Thanos wielded such power due to experience. Cronus was ignorant and couldn't handle it. The Spectre even freaked when he was given a glimpse as well. Thanos can handle supreme power but Cronus can't.

You haven't even given a reason why Presence wins. Not one. If Cronus can absorb his power then so can Thanos and since Thanos can wield supreme power yet Cronus can't then Thanos wins.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Lmao, so Toaa isn't implied to be supreme but thanos is? So based off the fact that Presence holds creation in his hands, is essentially dreaming up creation as he goes, and is outright said to be supreme isn't enough?

Everything that I've said has happened, all you have done throughout the entire duration of this argument is wank thanos. Thanos is not supreme, if he was, he wouldn't have lost the power of Toaa's creation through incompetence, greed, and lack of understanding.

So thanos can punch the writers in the face. You're trolling now.

Thanos chose to give up his supreme power. That's called a choice. It was a problem or should I say such an epic problem the supreme being needed Thanos to achieve it. Highest feat I have ever read.

Thanos didn't lose the power through greed or incompetence he willingly lost it to save all of reality. Please at least be familiar with it before lying through your teeth.

No, he can't I never asserted as such. You fail to grasp the story or you just didn't read it. Only a fool would argue fictional comic book characters vs. real life people. Laughs.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos became the supreme being after he was tricked to fix the flaw. So Thanos did become supreme with this power.

I see you can't name a combat feat so concede you must.

So you are saying thanos tricked himself? Because the supreme being tricked thanos. So thanos obviously wasn't the supreme being.

So you have to concede one of two points.

Either: (1): Thanos was not a supreme being or (2): Thanos was an idiot that somehow tricked himself into giving up ultimate power.

Your choice.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
4th false claim.

So you are saying thanos tricked himself? Because the supreme being tricked thanos. So thanos obviously wasn't the supreme being.

So you have to concede one of two points.

Either: (1): Thanos was not a supreme being or (2): Thanos was an idiot that somehow tricked himself into giving up ultimate power.

Your choice.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
4th false claim.

So you are saying thanos tricked himself? Because the supreme being tricked thanos. So thanos obviously wasn't the supreme being.

So you have to concede one of two points.

Either: (1): Thanos was not a supreme being or (2): Thanos was an idiot that somehow tricked himself into giving up ultimate power.

Your choice.

You really struggle sometimes.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This irks me I will have to dig to find this ww comic. Not on my hard drive and can't recall if it's still on my photobucket the thousands of images would be an absolute headache.

Find it yet?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Find it yet?

Gimme a few mins I will locate the appearance on comic vine.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I quit looking. Let me tell you the issue number. I think off memory it's ww issue 49 of volume three. I can't recall where my ww stuff is though from volume 3.

Gimme a few mins I will locate the appearance on comic vine.

Sure.

Though I have to ask... How is one scan supposed to prove consistently that the Presence is within creation? Especially when there are contradictory ones?

Issue 150 called conquest of november of 1999.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Sure.

Though I have to ask... How is one scan supposed to prove consistently that the Presence is within creation? Especially when there are contradictory ones?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Issue 150 called conquest of november of 1999.

ok.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Moot point as cronus took his actual power in heaven depending on how you choose to interpret the paradise lost scan. Also asmodel when he overtook the spectre was taking his revenge on creation to get to the presence.

question: which presence are you debating here?

Originally posted by -Pr-
ok.

question: which presence are you debating here?

No, I meant, are we talking about the supreme being, or the one that exists within the DCU as an aspect (iirc, you can differentiate).

The Presence, with ease
The Presence or TOAA shouldn't be used for fights imho, it's pointless.

😐

Originally posted by -Pr-
No, I meant, are we talking about the supreme being, or the one that exists within the DCU as an aspect (iirc, you can differentiate).

Originally posted by quanchi112
The one that exists within the dcu as the supreme being. That's from my understanding. I am sure like anything different writers have been all over the map like say Odin and the origin of earth,birth of creation, etc.

Then that wouldn't be the actual presence, just an aspect of it, like the Source or the Hand, iirc.

The Overmonitor
The Presence
The Source
The Hand
The Word
The Spectre

are all aspects of DCs GOD

Originally posted by -Pr-
Then that wouldn't be the actual presence, just an aspect of it, like the Source or the Hand, iirc.

The others might be aspects but this is the presence which the thread is about. The angels wouldn't be freaking out if cronus was just attacking an aspect it was described as the host from the book. In this portrayal this is the supreme being.

Also when asmodel possessed the spetcre he was attacking creation to get to the presence which was alluded to in paradise lost and further leads me to believe this tactic would work as well.