Originally posted by Juntai
I don't see Vertigo as a universe. Yes, sometimes they borrow another character, but it doesn't seem a static ongoing universe. It's just an imprint for a collection of some of the best written books in the business. But I don't feel say Scapled, Fables, or Constantine take place at the same time, you know?
That's a good point, but I still see no reason as to why the Presence would not exist throughout all of these continuities. Do you see my point though?
Originally posted by Sirius77It doesn't matter, it's not part of DC. That'd be like suggesting Presence was Lord over the God of War, or Star Wars universe.
That's a good point, but I still see no reason as to why the Presence would not exist throughout all of these continuities. Do you see my point though?
Originally posted by -Pr-
That's pretty definitive imo. mmm
😄 Sure is, and nothing Quan can do about it!
Btw Quan, this "The host from the book he was a threat to meaning the presence", was referring to the angels that live in Heaven. They are the HOST who live in and take care of it, not God/The Presence.
Originally posted by Sirius77
I can see that being valid. So then would you not agree that the Presence, being a supreme entity would pertain to both "universes"? It would just seem odd to me that there would be alternate versions of such an entity.
Same entity but under another continuity with its own story's and brand. Constantine in DC is a much younger version in his 30's and the Vertigo Constantine is in his 60's. Which is fine, showing Constantine can grow older, in the DC side something like that doesn't really happen. True we saw the Source Wall in Lucifer meaning the same universe, just seems they aren't going to allow this (Lucifer) to cross over into the normal DC. They can't tell a story like that under the DC brand.
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Originally posted by kevdudeRight. It's pretty much completely self contained. And Vertigo itself isn't really a universe. They don't call it the Vertigo Universe. Like MU or DCU. It's not ongoing and static, it's just an imprint.
😄 Sure is, and nothing Quan can do about it!Btw Quan, this "The host from the book he was a threat to meaning the presence", was referring to the angels that live in Heaven. They are they HOST who live and take care of it, not God/The Presence.
Same entity but under another continuity with its own story's and brand. Constantine in DC is a much younger version in his 30's and the Vertigo Constantine is in his 60's. Which is fine, showing Constantine can grow older, in the DC side something like that doesn't really happen. True we saw the Source Wall in Lucifer meaning the same universe, just seems they aren't going to allow this (Lucifer) to cross over into the normal DC. They can't tell a story like that under the DC brand.
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Lucifer does exist though, he was in an issue once with Etrigan, iirc, year one maybe? though he was shadowed. He was in a Spectre issue in volume 3, and he was in Sandman, which is still canon to the DCU. But, it's their own interpretation of that character as well, limited only to those appearances.
Originally posted by kevdude
Same entity but under another continuity with its own story's and brand. Constantine in DC is a much younger version in his 30's and the Vertigo Constantine is in his 60's. Which is fine, showing Constantine can grow older, in the DC side something like that doesn't really happen. True we saw the Source Wall in Lucifer meaning the same universe, just seems they aren't going to allow this (Lucifer) to cross over into the normal DC. They can't tell a story like that under the DC brand.
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Lol true that. That was a damn good series.
Originally posted by Juntai
It doesn't matter, it's not part of DC. That'd be like suggesting Presence was Lord over the God of War, or Star Wars universe.
I don't think that the series was that divergent from the company, at least not as much as all of these. Star wars and even GOW are all produced by different companies that, if I'm not mistaken, have DC comics put some of their stories on panel.
Originally posted by Juntai
Most of Vertigo's series' are, particularly for the reader who enjoys getting out of the kiddy side of comics once in a while.
Yeah I kind of get that vibe from most of their titles. They end early, but I think it's for the best. I've always hated it when a series continues when it is no longer compelling, but most vertigo titles know how to begin and end a story.
Originally posted by Juntai
Right. It's pretty much completely self contained. And Vertigo itself isn't really a universe. They don't call it the Vertigo Universe. Like MU or DCU. It's not ongoing and static, it's just an imprint.Lucifer does exist though, he was in an issue once with Etrigan, iirc, year one maybe? though he was shadowed. He was in a Spectre issue in volume 3, and he was in Sandman, which is still canon to the DCU. But, it's their own interpretation of that character as well, limited only to those appearances.
👆 Yeah agree, just noticed on comicvine his appearances show him up in 7 of The Demons run from 1990.
Originally posted by Sirius77He was absorbing the power he just couldn't handle it. Thanos can handle it. It still doesn't change the fact his power can be absorbed.
No, actually he just touched it. He never actually absorbed it, in a matter of fact, he asks for the process to be stopped, signifying that it was not yet finished.How did you get from that scan that Cronus had the ability to erase the Presence from the book, assuming that he even was in the book to begin with?
Thanos was self-embellishing. He even issued a self disclaimer stating that it was his "theory". To say that someone like Odin, who also has experience with massive stores of energy, or the like couldn't do the same would be odd.
There should be no reason as to why a supreme being would have multiple versions.
If he knew, then why did he continue and act as if he was taken aback when Warlock revealed this?
To say that the Presence "of vertigo" is a different Presence from the DCU, would be like saying that there is a different TOAA in every universe in Marvel. Supreme beings are just that--supreme. That is they exist across continuity. It would not make sense for there to be different versions of the Presence when there is supposedly only one version of Darkseid lol.
Because the presence was directly mentioned later in the same issue as having his power taken good thing for the dcu cronus wasn't up to the task.
Odin's never I repeat never had anything even close to the ig. To make the claim Odin could is ignorant as well as contradictory to the story and another theory you can't prove. Thanos is explaining the story through his words he wasn't embellishing you cannot take what you want and ignore the rest just because you're biased.
Warlock even says later on Thanos you were chosen for your will. How many times does the writer have to smack you in the face with this ?
Didio has explained it. There is no rhyme or reason vertigo is separate from the dcu and only certain characters and their actions are canon the dcu. Lcu's series isn't and never has been. It's a separate work done by one writer that doesn't adhere or conform to any other reality save the one he created and finished in 75 issues.
He admitted he knew all of this but lost himself in a rage. He could just confirm warlock's words with his newfound acknowledgment.
No, Didio has outright stated vertigo is separate from the dcu. You not wanting to accept it is hilarious.
Quit referencing other characters and acting like there's only one Darkseid means every crossover he has appeared in is canon which it isn't. Juntai has corrected you as I have done as well.
Not canon to the dcu presence nor has it ever been.
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Originally posted by Sirius77
The supreme being is the writer. That much is clear. I'm sure you, like just about everyone, have read the issue in which the FF see TOAA in the form of the "kirby avatar" writing down everything about them. If there is a "supreme being" in marvel, they showed him there. What other supreme being would there be in marvel except for TOAA unless you're not opposed to making up characters?.
The notion that TOAA is meant to be the writers is just very contradictory:
1. TOAA gave his power away as THOTU. Obviously the writers did nothing of the sort since they were writing the comic the whole time.
2. LT has direct contact with TOAA; how does that make sense when to the writers, he is simply another drawing on paper?
Originally posted by King Kandy
That is just a totally faulty logic. Based on that notion, the fact that Grant Morrison appeared in a comic once proves that the Presence is the writer. The fact that a writer avatar appeared in FF is no more relevant than that Mxy met one in Superman...The notion that TOAA is meant to be the writers is just very contradictory:
1. TOAA gave his power away as THOTU. Obviously the writers did nothing of the sort since they were writing the comic the whole time.
2. LT has direct contact with TOAA; how does that make sense when to the writers, he is simply another drawing on paper?
I think Marvel HAS implied heavily that the Supreme Being is in fact the writer. True, such was not the original intent, perhaps, of the older writers, when they first introduced the concept of the One-Above-All, but even on its official site, Marvel has stated:
"Perhaps the fact that multiple beings have experienced multiple origins of the universe actually means that the 616 reality is always in a state of flux, constantly re-writing itself as time goes on. Nevertheless, there has been evidence pointing to an all-powerful entity, the one the cosmic Living Tribunal calls “The One Above All.” The Fantastic Four recently encountered such a being when storming the gates of heaven to rescue their friend Ben Grimm from death. The being took the form of a kindly artist toiling at his drawing board. He praised the Fantastic Four for their persistence in exploring the Marvel Universe and promised extraordinary new wonders to be discovered as the years go by."
http://marvel.com/universe/Marvel_Universe
Most people have formed this same view not just from random abstract speculation, but from what they saw on Marvel.com. Also, note that many, if not most, of these online profiles on their official website are copied directly from the updated Official Handbooks themselves. I mean, if Marvel published this on their site, or even allowed it to be published through direct approval, I think this is the view they officially take on this issue.
Originally posted by Falamu
I think Marvel HAS implied heavily that the Supreme Being is in fact the writer. True, such was not the original intent, perhaps, of the older writers, when they first introduced the concept of the One-Above-All, but even on its official site, Marvel has stated:
"Perhaps the fact that multiple beings have experienced multiple origins of the universe actually means that the 616 reality is always in a state of flux, constantly re-writing itself as time goes on. Nevertheless, there has been evidence pointing to an all-powerful entity, the one the cosmic Living Tribunal calls “The One Above All.” The Fantastic Four recently encountered such a being when storming the gates of heaven to rescue their friend Ben Grimm from death. The being took the form of a kindly artist toiling at his drawing board. He praised the Fantastic Four for their persistence in exploring the Marvel Universe and promised extraordinary new wonders to be discovered as the years go by."
http://marvel.com/universe/Marvel_UniverseMost people have formed this same view not just from random abstract speculation, but from what they saw on Marvel.com. Also, note that many, if not most, of these online profiles on their official website are copied directly from the updated Official Handbooks themselves. I mean, if Marvel published this on their site, or even allowed it to be published through direct approval, I think this is the view they officially take on this issue.
2nd, the handbook says that he "TOOK THE FORM" of an artist, not that he was literally an actual human artist.
Originally posted by King Kandy
1st off, handbooks are simply not canonical information.2nd, the handbook says that he "TOOK THE FORM" of an artist, not that he was literally an actual human artist.
No, half the pointless spite debates on this site are not canon, or even Canon-based. But for most people, the Handbooks are.
Originally posted by Falamu
No, half the pointless spite debates on this site are not canon, or even Canon-based. But for most people, the Handbooks are.
Not to mention that handbook, doesn't even prove what you're saying. In fact it proves that I'M right.