Originally posted by TacDaveyThen we'll have to agree to disagree. I absolutely think we should be working to prevent suicide. Not going along with it. If someone wants to kill themselves, they need help. Not an easy way to do it.
We should help people, sure, we shouldn't criminalize them, in some cases death may be the best option for a person.
Originally posted by Bardock42
We should help people, sure, we shouldn't criminalize them, in some cases death may be the best option for a person.
In few cases, I would argue. Such as terminally ill people. That doesn't mean suicides should be allowed for any and everyone seeking them.
Originally posted by inimalist
the psychological decision to kill oneself is never easy, whether one has support or notthere is no data to the contrary
Suicide SHOULD be a hard option. And we shouldn't try making it any easier. You really don't think the government telling you it's okay wouldn't play any role in someone's decision to commit suicide or not? Not even a little?
Originally posted by TacDavey
Suicide SHOULD be a hard option. And we shouldn't try making it any easier. You really don't think the government telling you it's okay wouldn't play any role in someone's decision to commit suicide or not? Not even a little?
no, I don't, and I hardly think there is any evidence to prove it
all that government involvement does is make the process harder on the family.
Originally posted by inimalist
no, I don't, and I hardly think there is any evidence to prove itall that government involvement does is make the process harder on the family.
I have to disagree. If an action is not accepted by social norms, that usually aids a little bit in deterring people from doing it.
However, if you have the government backing you and telling you it is perfectly acceptable, you are far more likely to think just that.
no, it really doesn't...
the legality of things rarely affects their rate... especially something like suicide which is essentially a personal decision.
The best you could point at is the middle east, where there is HUGE stigma against it, but even then, rates are still generally on par with other nations, and often the numbers are suppressed
unless you have a single shred of evidence to support what you are saying, I'm going to side with mental health professionals, who, you know, have dedicated their life to this type of thing
Originally posted by TacDavey
You think anyone should be able to kill themselves? Come in, fill out some paper work and we'll work out a day we can bring you in and kill you?Most of the people who consider suicide aren't in the right state of mind. I'm seeing the population take a drastic drop if we just allow anyone to off themselves. Not to mention the blow it will have to families when Jenny comes home from not getting into the band and tells mom she's going to the suicide clinic because she's 18 and it's her right.
What, do you think people are deciding not to kill themselves because they could have legal repercussions? Hello, you can't punish a dead person.
Originally posted by inimalist
no, it really doesn't...the legality of things rarely affects their rate... especially something like suicide which is essentially a personal decision.
The best you could point at is the middle east, where there is HUGE stigma against it, but even then, rates are still generally on par with other nations, and often the numbers are suppressed
unless you have a single shred of evidence to support what you are saying, I'm going to side with mental health professionals, who, you know, have dedicated their life to this type of thing
People follow what others around them are telling them. Look at fads, fashion etc etc etc. It may not make a HUGE difference, but to say it does absolutely nothing is simply false.
If people grow up in a society that shuns suicide. They are going to think more along those lines, because that's what they've been taught.
Does this guarantee that people are going to follow along with what the society is saying? No. Does it influence the way they think about things? Absolutely.
Originally posted by King Kandy
The population would take a "drastic drop"?What, do you think people are deciding not to kill themselves because they could have legal repercussions? Hello, you can't punish a dead person.
No, I think people would be more open to the idea of suicide if it was accepted and supported, and made easy by the government.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Um, that would make it HARDER.With illegal suicide, any depressed shmuck can do it.
With legal suicide, there is an actual process for determining if someone "deserves" it.
With legal suicide any depressed shmuck and STILL do it, but now we have MORE ways for more people to do it.
Originally posted by TacDavey
No, I think people would be more open to the idea of suicide if it was accepted and supported, and made easy by the government.
Originally posted by TacDavey
With legal suicide any depressed shmuck and STILL do it, but now we have MORE ways for more people to do it.
His posts are so stupid I literally am too taken aback to even think of a proper response. I'm going to try.
I could jump out my window right now. How the **** does me being legally allowed to do so going to make it easier for me to do it? The only reason anyone follows the rules is because they're afraid of what happens when they don't. That is, literally, the only reason anyone on the planet follows rules. When you're dead there are no repercussions, so how in the hell do you figure that people are "afraid" of committing suicide because of legal repercussions? I know what you're going to say, "b-but if it's legal the government will be supporting it!" o, that's retarded, because even if it's legal, you still have... oh I don't know... all of your loved ones and friends telling you not to do it? Only a moron would say "well everyone I know is saying I shouldn't kill myself buuuut the government says its cool so trololo here I goooooo".
No.
If the government supported suicide, no one would want to do it anymore. Listening to government advice is not a popular thing. So this guy has a point: hatred of the man and a distaste of his conformist support of suicide will lead to a decreased number of purposefully self-inflicted fatalities. QED
Originally posted by King Kandy
And you base this one what?
On the fact that people base their belief on what they are taught by the world around them.
Does growing up in a society that shuns something, teaches you that it is wrong, those you see around you hold to it being wrong, the government does not support it, mean you will feel the same way?
No.
Does it INFLUENCE how you feel about it? Yes!
To say that is has absolutely zero effect on a person is simply incorrect. It doesn't decide for them, but it does play an active role in how they look at something.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Are you claiming that non-depressed people will start killing themselves?
No. When did I say that?
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
His posts are so stupid I literally am too taken aback to even think of a proper response. I'm going to try.I could jump out my window right now. How the **** does me being legally allowed to do so going to make it easier for me to do it? The only reason anyone follows the rules is because they're afraid of what happens when they don't. That is, literally, the only reason anyone on the planet follows rules. When you're dead there are no repercussions, so how in the hell do you figure that people are "afraid" of committing suicide because of legal repercussions? I know what you're going to say, "b-but if it's legal the government will be supporting it!" o, that's retarded, because even if it's legal, you still have... oh I don't know... all of your loved ones and friends telling you not to do it? Only a moron would say "well everyone I know is saying I shouldn't kill myself buuuut the government says its cool so trololo here I goooooo".
No.
Sigh...
You know. You really aught to make sure you have a grasp on someone's points before you go around insulting them. A little maturity goes a long way.
I don't think the fact that suicide is illegal stops people from killing themselves out of fear for legal repercussions. I think I've made that clear in at least three different posts.
I think that the fact that suicide is shown in our society as being wrong influences the decisions of those who consider it. Maybe not to a great degree, but it's there.
I think that if suicide were made legal, and people were taught that this is an acceptable option, we would be seeing a lot more suicides than we would otherwise.
Suicide being legal does not = This is an acceptable solution to your problems do it. That is an illogical belief. There are many things that you can get away with doing, legally, that widely considered to be stupid.
Furthermore, the government has far less of an influence on an individual then the people around them. No sane individual is going to ever think that suicide is a good idea because its legal, if the people he is close to are all unanimously arguing otherwise.