The reason why I never thought it to be unfair for Kun to use his ambulants is because I thought it required skill to use them. Kinda like using a lightsaber. Or Boba using his blasters. It would be different if anyone can use it with the same efficiency. But I don't know much about the ambulants so I wouldn't know.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The reason why I never thought it to be unfair for Kun to use his ambulants is because I thought it required skill to use them. Kinda like using a lightsaber. Or Boba using his blasters. It would be different if anyone can use it with the same efficiency. But I don't know much about the ambulants so I wouldn't know.
Lightsabers and Sith swords are ubiquitous weapons in the realm of Jedi and Sith.
I do not visit other versus forums except for the Star Wars one. Here we base the combatants power on their use of the Force and duelling skills. If I wanted to see how much strength Tony Stark has, then ofcourse he can't use the suit. It's important to know which outcome you want to achieve, if we'd want to know how Tony in a suit fares then he can have the suit. Here, we want to know which character is the more powerful Force user.
I must have misread that from the rules. I was labouring under the misapprehension that we we about 'versus fights'. Now it seems that not only are we here to establish a characters 'inherent worth' but also to soley find their strength as a Force wielder.
Awesome.
Advantages in referance to equipment. We're still talking about equipment here.
As I said there is no difference between advantages in terms of equipment or power.
Technically, he flies it. You could see it as a mode of transportation, but then Boba isn't allowed to use a jetpack either as standard equipment. This is exactly the question, where do you draw the line?
And yet he is completely seperate from the vehicle himself. Bobas jetpack on the otherhand is strapped to his back. He can actually walk around with the thing. Hence he has 'equipped' it. You can't do that to a car or a moon-sized battlestation.
Because equipment has nothing to do with one's actual power or strength.
And we are not here to establish a person actual strength in the Force or their inner strength bs. We are here to see who can beat who in a fight. Nothing more, nothing less.
You and Gideon seem to be misunderstanding what we're doing here.
There's that word again. Amulets + orbalisks + Death Star do not equal ability or skill.
ONCE AGAIN:
We are not here to establish either. We are here to see who can beat whom in a fight. Equipment included.
The reason why I never thought it to be unfair for Kun to use his ambulants is because I thought it required skill to use them. Kinda like using a lightsaber. Or Boba using his blasters. It would be different if anyone can use it with the same efficiency. But I don't know much about the ambulants so I wouldn't know.
👆 x frustration!
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Ambulants? WTF.
AMULET. Lol, my bad. I didn't even realize I've been spelling that wrong.
Shut up.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
[BLightsabers and Sith swords are ubiquitous weapons in the realm of Jedi and Sith.[/B]
I see. I always thought most sith in ancient times required the use of artifacts since they never do anything that great without them (lol).
Originally posted by NowYouRemember
lol.
Well except for Nihilus and maybe Muur.
But really if you think about it majority of the sith in ancient times all required the use of artifacts to do anything real impressive. It's like they did not have the command and control over their powers like Palpatine, Bane, Dooku, Vader, or even Krayt. Which is why I don't see where the argument comes that they were greater masters over the force.
That is why I thought it was only fair to allow them access to their artifacts.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I must have misread that from the rules. I was labouring under the misapprehension that we we about 'versus fights'. Now it seems that not only are we here to establish a characters 'inherent worth' but also to soley find their strength as a Force wielder.Awesome.
So you agree that if we want to see who is the best Force wielder, they can't use any extra equipment that the other one doesn't have.
As I said there is no difference between advantages in terms of equipment or power.
Yes, there obviously is a difference. It depends on what you want to know, if you want to know who's more powerful then you can't add equipment that has nothing to do with one's inherent power. If however you want to know who has the best equipment, by all means...
And yet he is completely seperate from the vehicle himself. Bobas jetpack on the otherhand is strapped to his back. He can actually walk around with the thing. Hence he has 'equipped' it. You can't do that to a car or a moon-sized battlestation.
You can strap yourself in an X-Wing (I could give you pictures so you can clearly see they're essentially the same). But that's not the point, the point is that the X-Wing is as part of him as the Jetpack is a part of Boba Fett.
[b]And we are not here to establish a person actual strength in the Force or their inner strength bs. We are here to see who can beat who in a fight. Nothing more, nothing less.You and Gideon seem to be misunderstanding what we're doing here. [/B]
What we're doing here has nothing to do with what I initially meant. With better, I meant in terms of Jedi skills (Force and duelling) or sometimes Blaster skills.
I responded partially to this post:
Originally posted by truejedi
no, i totally buy that, but it doesn't make Kun more powerful than Sidious. It means he has better weaponry. That's like saying Han with a Death Star Vs. Sidious on Alderaan.
and then you were like:
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I have no problems with that conclusion. But the amulets are a part of his standard equipment, just like lightsabers for Jedi or Boba Fetts jetpack. And taking his character as a whole, with the amulets, I'd give him the edge over Sidious (unless Gideon etc swoops in a blows my mind with a counter-argument).
and I was like:
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
That's just it, Sidious is better than Exar Kun. Unless he has extra equipment. Just like practically every Force user is better than Boba, unless Boba has his equipment.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well except for Nihilus and maybe Muur.But really if you think about it majority of the sith in ancient times all required the use of artifacts to do anything real impressive. It's like they did not have the command and control over their powers like Palpatine, Bane, Dooku, Vader, or even Krayt. Which is why I don't see where the argument comes that they were greater masters over the force.
That is why I thought it was only fair to allow them access to their artifacts.
I can't remember exactly, but right after I got into Star Wars just before TPM came out, I dug into alot of information regarding Marka Ragnos along with a few other intellectual acquaintances and they postulated that genetic Force Sensitivity might apparently be very strong in the actual Sith species, and we also noticed that with every generation, that sensitivity seems to decrease.
Though of course, that is about halfway speculative, as we now know that Force Sensitivity doesn't have everything to do with genes.
Like I said, it's been years since I delved into that particular research, but I remember uncovering interesting clues about how genetically powerful the Sith species might have been, and also why the Dark Jedi that interbred with them were also consequently powerful - even as the Sith species itself was completely absorbed into that of the Human interlopers.
I'd like very much to obtain those papers we wrote again..
Either way, I think the ancient Sith people themselves, especially those that were Sith Lords, probably made the powerful Jedi of some of the later generations look like complete toys.
I don't think they needed talismans and such to be bad asses. They just wanted them for an edge and such.
So you agree that if we want to see who is the best Force wielder, they can't use any extra equipment that the other one doesn't have.
I don't see how you got that from my post.
Yes, there obviously is a difference. It depends on what you want to know, if you want to know who's more powerful then you can't add equipment that has nothing to do with one's inherent power. If however you want to know who has the best equipment, by all means...
Cool beans! Here in the versus forum we want to know which character is better in combat. Thats why its a versus forum rather than a lets see who's more powerful/has the best equipment forum.
You can strap yourself in an X-Wing (I could give you pictures so you can clearly see they're essentially the same). But that's not the point, the point is that the X-Wing is as part of him as the Jetpack is a part of Boba Fett.
No, you have seatbelts. They're not the same thing. In an X-Wing, you strap yourself into the X-Wing. With a Jetpack, you strap it on yourself and carry it around with you. A jetpack is a part of your personal equipment and unless you take it off is always available on your person. An X-Wing, is your vehicle, you drive it from place to place and shoot stuff with it. However, you cannot carry it around with you and it isn't always readily available. Thus, it does not count as personal equipment.
no, i totally buy that, but it doesn't make Kun more powerful than Sidious. It means he has better weaponry. That's like saying Han with a Death Star Vs. Sidious on Alderaan.
Well I have no problems with that conclusion. But the amulets are a part of his standard equipment, just like lightsabers for Jedi or Boba Fetts jetpack. And taking his character as a whole, with the amulets, I'd give him the edge over Sidious (unless Gideon etc swoops in a blows my mind with a counter-argument).
Highlight mine. I never claimed that Kun was more powerful than Sidious, just that he could take him in a fight and also that a characters equipment is obviously a part of their powerset.
Originally posted by RagingBoner
Palpatine's a dangerous enough swordsman to hold his own against Mace Windu, despite the extraordinarily powerful metaphysical properties of Vaapad (ROTS novelization), and annihilate three of the Order's most celebrated swordmasters (The Complete Visual Dictionary).
I'll give him the holding against Mace Windu aspect, but the three Jedi members? You mean the ones that mostly stood still while he impaled them? In the highest canon source ever? Didn't we debunk that claim with actual evidence? It's like saying I'm a legendary fighter, but Bruce Lee breaks my neck because I stand still in life or death combat. It does not compute.
In addition, his power is sufficient to cow Dooku, who is himself one of the most respected, powerful, and skilled Jedi Masters in history (ROTS novelization) and affect thousands of Jedi across the galaxy;
^ Exar Kun's cries of anguish as the dark side heals him is felt and heard across the galaxy. Vodo immediately recognizes than Kun has fell to the dark side, and is afraid of the coming storm.
^ Exar Kun possesses a hoard of lore and items from Ossus, the greatest of the Jedi libraries, more than he could ever use.
^ Kun shows perfection in a Sith spell which silently freezes thousands of sentient beings still, enough to literally stop an army in its tracks and butcher it without danger. This is an incredible Force feat.
^ Exar Kun drains the Massassi people - thousands - as he attempts to anchor his spirit to the physical world, unlike Sidious' essence transfer which required a physical body. However, because he had not mastered the technique and the entire Jedi Order - some thousands of trained Force users - joined in a wall of light to sever him from the Force, he was left disembodied for four thousand years. Still, he had much power in this state once he attacked Luke's Order.
Note that the narrator calls his spirit itself "powerful", and suggests that he could perhaps run rampant through the cosmos without a body.
^ Showcasing how much the amulet bumps him up in the hierarchy. His rage is increased hundreds of thousands of times. Each pulse doubles in power. He easily destroys the Sith wyrm and the Temple of Fire, and by the end of it he's using so much power he can barely control it. He then turns the power on Nadd - a Sith Lord and spirit of considerable power - and destroys him utterly.
I'd say he's up there.
telekinetically, he's capable of casually manipulating automobile-sized Senate platforms.
Actually, I demonstrated in my detailed RotS duel commentary that the sound of the pods' levitation devices was clearly audible and that he was using TK on the controls, not the entire weight of the pods themselves. This diminishes the feat considerably, considering Qui-Gon Jinn was able to use the Force on a small scale to manipulate droid innards to shut them down. Qui-Gon = Sidious? I think not.
Without his amulets, which "radically" enhance his power (even telekinetic power), I haven't seen anything Kun can produce that puts him on Palpatine's level. With his amulets, Palpatine's probably fast enough to make this a very personal fight and, while it is undoubtedly a closer match, he might still win.
That's just it - this isn't about Kun "impressing" you with what he can do without the amulets. He always has them! They multiply his rage and power exponentially, making him potentially stronger than most if not all Force users and definitely more powerful than the relatively unaided, unless you want to argue Sidious > hundreds of thousands of Kun, in which case put the pipe down.
Kun has the amulets. They make him BA. I don't care if you and your posse like it, he's a top tier Force user. End of debate.