Gabriel Belmont vs. Kratos

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not by general enemies hes not. All this "portrayed" rubbish exists in comics I am guessing, games vs does not base characters off whatever gameplay mechanics show because their there for player fun/challenge or what have you, you cannot accuratly argue characters from a canon perspective. Feats, canon ones all suggest hes immune to anything Gabriel has and anything his general enemies have. Hilarious how this needs to be explained, its in the rules and its common sense..if any standard skeleton can stab and kill Kratos he would not be able to survive Chronos' hands, Hercules, poseidon, fight zeus for a second etc. You are not being logical.

He has size, Titans like Chronos, Gaia do not need feats to suggest their strong, by virtue of weight and the ability to lift themselves they have a feat anyway. One far beyond Gabriel, your the one claiming he has no feats.

Gabriel has fought beings with immense size as well. They aren't special in your eyes either so size only matters just like feats only matter when you say so hence the double standards.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
There's no spoiler in watching that video Quan, just simply skip forward to 2:53. Kratos is getting bitten across the midsection by this thing:

In canon scenes he's cut by two main culprits

1.) Ares in giant God form, who threw a pillar that would weigh about at least a ton, at hypersonic speeds--(it crossed dozens of miles in a few seconds).

Even when Kratos was hit by that, it was still a durability feat since a normal man would have simply exploded on contact, Kratos wasn't even cut in half when he could have been if the pillar went all the way through him. Its base was wider than his torso so the fact that it didn't even go all the way through him meant his body was durable enough to slow down its momentum greatly.

2. The Blade of Olympus wielded by Zeus when Kratos was weakened and had drained all of his godly power into the blade. And later Kratos stabs himself with it in God of War 3 after having to charge it up first.

Zeus and Ares are on a higher strength tier than Gabriel by far.

Gabriel isn't a normal man either. His strength is supernatural and so are his reflexes and skills. He takes on fallen angels, lycans, vampires, demons, giant immense beings as well. I see no reason why Kratos can't be cut.

You are into comics now these are just inconsistencies like with Thor taking punches from the Hulk yet being pierced by bullets.

If I change my mind after playing the psp games I will let you know but I've never highlighted a few feats and ignored portrayal.

Let's just assume for the sake of argument that Superboy Prime tanked a universal blast in countdown and then it's nothing lower than this can beat him which is absolutely not the case. In fiction we see someone as weak as superboy scar him for life and there are inconsistencies all over the place which is why I have always went for portrayal and it seems are opinions vary based on portrayal even.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can argue portrayal in any medium because in games we know that a general enemy won't more than likely kill the main hero under any normal circumstances but we also know that just because it doesn't happen not that it can't happen.

Gabriel has fought beings with immense size as well. They aren't special in your eyes either so size only matters just like feats only matter when you say so hence the double standards.

We know it cant happen when they have taken forces in canon far beyond general enemies. It never happens, you cannot argue from the point of view of an event that never happens 🙂 .

🙄 context, size matters but hes never been hit by one in canon hence why their not special, their different in many ways.

Originally posted by Burning thought
We know it cant happen when they have taken forces in canon far beyond general enemies. It never happens, you cannot argue from the point of view of an event that never happens 🙂 .

🙄 context, size matters but hes never been hit by one in canon hence why their not special, their different in many ways.

When you play the game you see Gabriel can be hit yet survive against enormous foes. Gabriel has beaten far bigger opponents than Hephaestus so to suggest he can't is just plain baseless.

Gameplay itself is NOT canon, certain elements in gameplay can be, but story/cutscenes comes first.

Gameplay being argued as canon would mean things like Sephiroth in Final Fantasy 7 being a Solar System Buster, but we all know that's bullshit when in the story he needs prep to even be at country busting level. Gameplay being canon would mean a single marionette could kill Dante, when he has shrugged off being scythed by normal enemies in cutscenes.

And there is no parallel with comics. Comics change by writers and arcs and even decades as they go on for much longer, thus accumulating a wide range of levels. This is not the case with game series. They last a few years and generally have the same core team with a solidified vision working on them.

The one who's ignoring portrayal is YOU, by ignoring the feats that establish his portrayal. Kratos doesn't need Superman level durability to no-sell Gabriel. He just needs the durability he has established, which even in a weaker game than he was in 3 was enough to tank a volcanic eruption that sunk Atlantis and sent him flying for miles into a marble pillar that subsequently broke. He got up without a cut, scratch or bruise. When has Gabriel ever hurt someone on that level of durability?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Gameplay itself is NOT canon, certain elements in gameplay can be, but story/cutscenes comes first.

Gameplay being argued as canon would mean things like Sephiroth in Final Fantasy 7 being a Solar System Buster, but we all know that's bullshit when in the story he needs prep to even be at country busting level. Gameplay being canon would mean a single marionette could kill Dante, when he has shrugged off being scythed by normal enemies in cutscenes.

And there is no parallel with comics. Comics change by writers and arcs and even decades as they go on for much longer, thus accumulating a wide range of levels. This is not the case with game series. They last a few years and generally have the same core team with a solidified vision working on them.

The one who's ignoring portrayal is YOU, by ignoring the feats that establish his portrayal. Kratos doesn't need Superman level durability to no-sell Gabriel. He just needs the durability he has established, which even in a weaker game than he was in 3 was enough to tank a volcanic eruption that sunk Atlantis and sent him flying for miles into a marble pillar that subsequently broke. He got up without a cut, scratch or bruise. When has Gabriel ever hurt someone on that level of durability?

I disagree a marionette has the power to hurt dante but unless he stands there and allows it to fight him it isn't going to happen not that he's impervious to it's attacks.

I don't think this is exclusively comic driven by any means and these games might have the same core of people on them but that doesn't mean opinions don't change or that they honestly sit down and try to make it fit into a puzzle with all the feats making complete sense. Developers make fights epic so big enemies are going to be seen in these kinds of games now.

Not ignoring portrayal since it's obvious Kratos' foes can hurt him. I guarantee if I asked the creative team if the grunts are capable of hurting Kratos they'd say absolutely but that it isn't going to happen because Kratos is stronger, more skilled, and an all around better fighter.

Nah, it's like saying universal explosions are required to hurt Prime when Superboy has scarred him for life. The thing is Prime has ridiculous durability but wouldn't give Kratos grunts a second notice because he's generally portrayed as being too durable on average. Mich higher playing field.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he's been stabbed by foes in canon gameplay and needs to outfight his opponents he is never portrayed with Superman like invulnerability.

When you play the game you see Gabriel can be hit yet survive against enormous foes. Gabriel has beaten far bigger opponents than Hephaestus so to suggest he can't is just plain baseless.

There are no canon mechanics, your talking rubbish.

He rarely gets hit in canon, he gets thrown by Satan a few times iirc but thats about it. You keep changing words, who said anything about "beaten" although its nost just size, Hepheastus is quite quick, the larger enemies Gabriel fights are cumbersome or more vulnerable.

Also I think its hilarious how you argue prime as being more durable on average when Kratos has also proven in canon to be more durable than any of the grunts power can show. You canont pick and choose feats, ignore information and then use gameplay mechanics as a base. Against the rules buddy.

Originally posted by Burning thought
There are no canon mechanics, your talking rubbish.

He rarely gets hit in canon, he gets thrown by Satan a few times iirc but thats about it. You keep changing words, who said anything about "beaten" although its nost just size, Hepheastus is quite quick, the larger enemies Gabriel fights are cumbersome or more vulnerable.

Also I think its hilarious how you argue prime as being more durable on average when Kratos has also proven in canon to be more durable than any of the grunts power can show. You canont pick and choose feats, ignore information and then use gameplay mechanics as a base. Against the rules buddy.

Gabriel does get hit and in the game it's clear he can survive attacks from his foes save a fully powered up Forgotten One.

Hephaestus isn't quick at all compared to Gabriel and the only reason Kratos was even in doubt for a moment was because he wasn't expecting it. Hephaestus is great at creating weapons not fighting and there is nothing in the game to support him being a great fighter. You create double standards in everyone of your posts.

Originally posted by quanchi112
These characters are portrayed as being able to hurt the hero. That's called portrayal.

Gabriel does get hit and in the game it's clear he can survive attacks from his foes save a fully powered up Forgotten One.

Hephaestus isn't quick at all compared to Gabriel and the only reason Kratos was even in doubt for a moment was because he wasn't expecting it. Hephaestus is great at creating weapons not fighting and there is nothing in the game to support him being a great fighter. You create double standards in everyone of your posts.

And its something you have made up, their not portrayed as anything apart from enemies to make a game more interesting and weak tiny skeletons. Thier fodder, nothing more, infact one of their scripted attacks is when they all jump kratos and he just smashes out unharmed iirc, point is your talking mechanics, look at the rules.

Show me, show me him canonically getting hit by something impressive.

You ignore my posts completly so I doubt you even know what I typed, I never said anything about compared to gabriel, I was comparing him to gabriels larger enemies. You cannot answer my point so you make a red herring/straw man in its place. If Gabriel got hit by Hepheastus' hammer, he would die instantly unlike Kratos who can hold it and smash it back with ease.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And its something you have made up, their not portrayed as anything apart from enemies to make a game more interesting and weak tiny skeletons. Thier fodder, nothing more, infact one of their scripted attacks is when they all jump kratos and he just smashes out unharmed iirc, point is your talking mechanics, look at the rules.

Show me, show me him canonically getting hit by something impressive.

You ignore my posts completly so I doubt you even know what I typed, I never said anything about compared to gabriel, I was comparing him to gabriels larger enemies. You cannot answer my point so you make a red herring/straw man in its place. If Gabriel got hit by Hepheastus' hammer, he would die instantly unlike Kratos who can hold it and smash it back with ease.

You played the game and showing you anything wouldn't matter because you act like feats matter but then dismiss them entirely in favor of that powerhouse Hephaestus.

Gabriel's larger enemies are fast. Cornell has boots on which are fast. Cornell is the strongest of the brotherhood too it tells you in his enemy description so he's not only fast but strong as an ox as well. None of this matters to you though honestly.

The funny thing is gaia is incredibly slow too as are most of the Titans but that only matters for the gigantic characters gabriel faces. LOL. You literally step and fumble all over yourself.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Because Kratos fights back and is more skilled, stronger, and a much better fighter so they can't keep him down. They can hurt him they are never going to beat Kratos though canonically but he isn't invulnerable to their attacks. Play the games if you think so. Let one skeleton bash you 20 times in a row and see if the screen says you are dead or not.

You played the game and showing you anything wouldn't matter because you act like feats matter but then dismiss them entirely in favor of that powerhouse Hephaestus.

Gabriel's larger enemies are fast. Cornell has boots on which are fast. Cornell is the strong too it tells you in his enemy description so he's not only fast but strong as an ox as well. None of this matters to you though honestly.

The funny thing is gaia is incredibly slow too as are most of the Titans but that only matters for the gigantic characters gabriel faces. LOL. You literally step and fumble all over yourself.

Again, gameplay mechanics.

Show me, or gtfo and stop making unbacked claims.

Cornell is not large, hes probably about 3 meters tall give or take 😆

Chronos makes a slap in seconds, their not sprinters sure but their attacks are hardly slow. Gabriels largest fores are slow and lumbering.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Again, gameplay mechanics.

Show me, or gtfo and stop making unbacked claims.

Cornell is not large, hes probably about 3 meters tall give or take 😆

Chronos makes a slap in seconds, their not sprinters sure but their attacks are hardly slow. Gabriels largest fores are slow and lumbering.

Show you what now ?

Cornell is large compared to Gabriel and a lot stronger at this point but Gabriel is skilled and strong enough to kill him.

Cronos' attacks are very slow. He is practically stupid in your fight and consistenly confused as to where you even are. So like I said slow only matters for gabriel's foes not Kratos'. You always make rabid claim and then back off your position right after. It's easy to debate against you as you really aren't grounded you jump from point to point.

Clearly he is, Chronos slap, Poseidon pierce etc etc

What I asked for.

Whats that got to do with anything?

Well this is your claim, show me him being slow because I have shown him being fairly quick when slapping Kratos. Your not debating yet, not until you actually bring up some evidence otherwise your just making claims, anyone can do that over and over again while ignoring evidence like you do.

The "cooler" character or game in your mind is not always the winner in a thread.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Clearly he is, Chronos slap, Poseidon pierce etc etc

What I asked for.

Whats that got to do with anything?

Well this is your claim, show me him being slow because I have shown him being fairly quick when slapping Kratos. Your not debating yet, not until you actually bring up some evidence otherwise your just making claims, anyone can do that over and over again while ignoring evidence like you do.

The "cooler" character or game in your mind is not always the winner in a thread.

We also see Gabriel take out each Ogre eye showing the skill and tactical levels needed to take someone out whose size is much bigger than his own. We also see his own strength overpower the much bigger Ogre when he brings his head down while the Ogre resists.

The Black Knight hits gabriel with his huge, jagged blade to which Gabriel no sells in canon gameplay. Boom. You ask for proof I come through despite knowing you'll act like that doesn't cut or downplay it. The blows knocks him around 20 to more feet onto a lower level.

Cronos is slow. I played the game and the entire fight is cronos trying to figure out where you've gone and slowly attacking you with his hands or blowing on you.

Never said it was. In this case though Gabriel wins due to his strength, power, and skill.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong. Gabriel can also survive slaps from the gigantic ogre as well. The ogre seems to be able to smash through castle walls easily ye not kill Gabriel with a slap.

We also see Gabriel take out each Ogre eye showing the skill and tactical levels needed to take someone out whose size is much bigger than his own. We also see his own strength overpower the much bigger Ogre when he brings his head down while the Ogre resists.

The Black Knight hits gabriel with his huge, jagged blade to which Gabriel no sells in canon gameplay. Boom. You ask for proof I come through despite knowing you'll act like that doesn't cut or downplay it. The blows knocks him around 20 to more feet onto a lower level.

Cronos is slow. I played the game and the entire fight is cronos trying to figure out where you've gone and slowly attacking you with his hands or blowing on you.

Never said it was. In this case though Gabriel wins due to his

I would like to see that happen in canon. I dont recall.

Again, I would like to actually see it, you act like you dont have youtube, so whining about how you cannot find evidence does not help you when all you need is internet connection.

That point was not slow.

"due to his" what? being a thousand times weaker than kratos, being less endurant? having less overall power? 🙂

Originally posted by Burning thought
I would like to see that happen in canon. I dont recall.

Again, I would like to actually see it, you act like you dont have youtube, so whining about how you cannot find evidence does not help you when all you need is internet connection.

That point was not slow.

"due to his" what? being a thousand times weaker than kratos, being less endurant? having less overall power? 🙂

I won't 'search for this nonsense. If you have the game you go to the chapter where you fight Black Knight and it happens in the canon cutscene against the black knight. You can replay every single chapter in the game any time you ant once you beat that chapter.

Yes, he is slow just like all the titans due to their huge size. Cronos is like a man on a walker against someone with gabriel's quickness and striking who probably would have taken his eyes out not just temp blinded him like Kratos did.

Gabriel is a lot weaker than the Ogre as well when he fights him but strong enough to hurt, blind, and overpower him to kill him. Gabriel has shown he can overpower characters with sheer mass so doing so in a fight against Kratos with momentum or with skill would be easy since he's done so before against much stronger foes than himself in fights. Game, set, match.

It know its canon him being blinded, but I dont recall him being struck canonically.

Why should I try and prove you correct? by doing things myself? thats not how evidence works silly, nor how the burden of proof works.

Based on what? his tiny little cross thats fought weak opponents?

You dont have to be physically as strong as someone to hurt them. "much stronger" does not equel thousands of tons of strength like Kratos, not to mension Kratos is not as slow and cumbersome as the ogre.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It know its canon him being blinded, but I dont recall him being struck canonically.

Why should I try and prove you correct? by doing things myself? thats not how evidence works silly, nor how the burden of proof works.

Based on what? his tiny little cross thats fought weak opponents?

You dont have to be physically as strong as someone to hurt them. "much stronger" does not equel thousands of tons of strength like Kratos, not to mension Kratos is not as slow and cumbersome as the ogre.

I explained when it occurs. I don't look up toutube videos. You claimed to have played the game so it won't be hard to put it back in find which chapter he's in which I believe is 2 and then watch the scene where Gabriel kills Claudia and then fights him right after.

That's you ignoring the evidence. His cross has hurt gigantic enemies, enemies made of stone, ice, beings who laugh off lava, etc. Your points just is your opinion by ignoring the evidence, downplaying everything in an attempt to undermine someone who will definitely hurt Kratos and kill him.

The advantage the ogre had on sheer strength would probably be quite a few tones more yet Gabriel still had the strength to overpower and kill him in battle. Gabriel can't easily until maybe the absolute end smash through walls of stone like the Ogre yet did overpower and kill him.

Kratos lacks his sheer weight and size so he's screwed. The absolute best part is you beat the ogre so early on he's so weak compared to the end of the game and yet still I have proof of him resisting the black knights sword thrust and overpowering the Ogre.

I'm quite good at backing up my points whereas you stumble all over yours.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't sruck canonically but he can survive via gameplay. Just like the reapers can oneshot kill Gabriel it just doesn't occur.

I explained when it occurs. I don't look up toutube videos. You claimed to have played the game so it won't be hard to put it back in find which chapter he's in which I believe is 2 and then watch the scene where Gabriel kills Claudia and then fights him right after.

That's you ignoring the evidence. His cross has hurt gigantic enemies, enemies made of stone, ice, beings who laugh off lava, etc. Your points just is your opinion by ignoring the evidence, downplaying everything in an attempt to undermine someone who will definitely hurt Kratos and kill him.

The advantage the ogre had on sheer strength would probably be quite a few tones more yet Gabriel still had the strength to overpower and kill him in battle. Gabriel can't easily until maybe the absolute end smash through walls of stone like the Ogre yet did overpower and kill him.

Kratos lacks his sheer weight and size so he's screwed. The absolute best part is you beat the ogre so early on he's so weak compared to the end of the game and yet still I have proof of him resisting the black knights sword thrust and overpowering the Ogre.

I'm quite good at backing up my points whereas you stumble all over yours.

I see, gameplay mechanics, again...., go back to comic vs, you dont understand games vs.

Well you better start doing it, its the main source of video game evidence. Again, I dont have to play it at all, its your evidence to prove. The whole "go and play the game again" rubbish is not a counter or proof, go and find some.

His cross has harmed fairly basic creatures by hitting weak points Kratos does not have. Hes never faced anything as powerful or as durable as Kratos.

Smashing through walls of stone vs Kratos' skyscraper monster resisting strength....hmmm, I wonder which one is more impressive 😆

Not really because Gabriel himself is not that heavy. You dont have proof, you have claims, you dont understand that yet hence why your arguments collapse and dont convince anyone.

This a joke? coming from a guy who thinks making a claim is evidence and who ignores everything for the sake of his own bias belief and how cool his favourite characters are....if you want to convince somene, go and get some real evidence and learn how to use youtube, its not hard.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I see, gameplay mechanics, again...., go back to comic vs, you dont understand games vs.

Well you better start doing it, its the main source of video game evidence. Again, I dont have to play it at all, its your evidence to prove. The whole "go and play the game again" rubbish is not a counter or proof, go and find some.

His cross has harmed fairly basic creatures by hitting weak points Kratos does not have. Hes never faced anything as powerful or as durable as Kratos.

Smashing through walls of stone vs Kratos' skyscraper monster resisting strength....hmmm, I wonder which one is more impressive 😆

Not really because Gabriel himself is not that heavy. You dont have proof, you have claims, you dont understand that yet hence why your arguments collapse and dont convince anyone.

This a joke? coming from a guy who thinks making a claim is evidence and who ignores everything for the sake of his own bias belief and how cool his favourite characters are....if you want to convince somene, go and get some real evidence and learn how to use youtube, its not hard.

Gabriel doesn't have to be heavy because he overpowered someone far heavier than him. He can also due so to skill and since he isn't anywhere near as strong as the ogre when you face him I've proven he's still strong and agile enough to kill and overpower him.

That last sentence applies to you not me and you keep asking for proof when you played through the game. Did you really do so ?

Doesn't anything with a QTE fall under the purview of Gameplay Mechanics? 😈