Originally posted by zopzop
I hate to repeat myself (same writer for both stories disagrees), but apparently it wasn't true .
Well we agree to disagree...
I chalk it up to Marvel based inconsistency; just because you have the same writer doesnt mean they are consistent...
Surfer got taken out in two blows against either T or A, but later on tanks 4 attacks from them and remains conscious; inconsistency in the same arc!
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I dont think its meaningless; we have a mutual opponent (Thanos) vs DP Tyrant, Odin, and Post Retcon Beyonder...PR Beyonder was the only 1 of the 3 that proved capable of one shotting Thanos and he did it with a mere, single, eyebeam...
The others may not have been going all out, but nevertheless, they both put far more into their fights against Thanos than a single eyebeam...
You realize, characters can have different levels of showings in their fights right? Who's to say that Thanos didn't have a low showing vs Maker but high showings vs Odin (or Tyrant)?
That very same Maker was said to be less dangerous than either A/T and it took both A/T to down a Galactus taken by surprise.
Tyant beat Galactus (who had prep) and Odin (sans amps) is stalemating Galactus.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Well we agree to disagree...I chalk it up to Marvel based inconsistency; just because you have the same writer doesnt mean they are consistent...
Surfer got taken out in two blows against either T or A, but later on tanks 4 attacks from them and remains conscious; inconsistency in the same arc!
That still proves my point though. Odin ONE SHOTTED Surfer as has Tyrant. Yet it took "Far more dangerous than the Maker" A/T, multiple shots to down him.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Far more dangerous doesnt equte to far more powerful...The Maker was mentally weak...which was demostrated on panel...The Maker/PR Beyonder has demostrated more power on panel than either T and A has.
How? And please don't bring up the "universe shaking" fight he had with a sliver of a cube being in power (the same guy that got his butt kicked by Aaron and later went on to be killed by Sentry).
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
By effortlessly 1 shotting someone (Thanos) that is far more powerful and durable than the Silver Surfer...Also by creating its own universe...
Mephisto and other Hell Lords and demons have their own universe where they are God there. Unlike the Beyonder, it doesn't cease to exist even after they are destroyed (see Mephisto and Satannish as examples). And I bet you'd place demon lords as < Cube Beings.
Thanos could have had a low showing vs Maker or high showings vs Odin and Tyrant. It happens.
Beyonder also lost to MM (who only had a sliver of his half a cube power). MM lost to Aaron and was later killed by Sentry.
Originally posted by zopzop
Mephisto and other Hell Lords and demons have their own universe where they are God there. Unlike the Beyonder, it doesn't cease to exist even after they are destroyed (see Mephisto and Satannish as examples). And I bet you'd place demon lords as < Cube Beings.Thanos could have had a low showing vs Maker or high showings vs Odin and Tyrant. It happens.
Beyonder also lost to MM (who only had a sliver of his half a cube power). MM lost to Aaron and was later killed by Sentry.
You are moving the goal posts now...
My point was that The Maker/Beyonder has demostrated more power on panel than either T and A via its universe creating feat and by easily one shotting Thanos (when neither of them has proven capable of one shotting the Silver Surfer)...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You are moving the goal posts now...My point was that The Maker/Beyonder has demostrated more power on panel than either T and A via its universe creating feat and by [b]easily
one shotting Thanos (when neither of them has proven capable of one shotting the Silver Surfer)... [/B]
And yet according to Galactus (whose dialogue was written by the same writer that penned the Thanos/Maker showdown), they were MORE dangerous than the Maker. FAR more dangerous in fact.
Fights >>>>>>>>>>>>>Feats.
"Sliver of half a cube MM" beat FULL Cube Beyonder. Same MM was beaten before this by Aaron and later beaten and KILLED by Sentry!
Aside from his original loss vs Galactus billions of years ago (a fight that happened mostly in the form of a flashback so we don't know the circumstances of the loss), Tyrant NEVER lost a fight. He was only put down by the UN.
See the difference?
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Also, you might want to call Thanos getting one shotted by the Maker a "low" showing, but PR Beyonder/Maker has better feats than either Tyrant or Odin...Thus I fail to see how you can call Thanos getting one shotted by such a being a low showing...
FIGHTS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FEATS. Unless you think Mephisto >>>>>> most abstracts in existence.
That being later got it's ass handed to it by Thanos and still later was killed during the Annihilation Event. 😕
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
More dangerous doesnt equate to being more powerful...Tyrant failed to do to Thanos with multiple attacks (including the big one that destroyed much of his base) with the Maker easily did with a lone eyebeam...
Do you admit that, characters sometimes have high showings and other times low showings?
Do you admit that the same being that "one shotted" Thanos was later beaten and imprisoned by him. And later still killed in the aftermath of the Annihilation Wave attack on it's prison?
Do you admit, a supposedly more powerful version of the being that one shotted Thanos, was beaten by another being said to possess A SLIVER of HALF it's power? And that being himself was beaten earlier to this fight by a Watcher and then later killed by Sentry?
Do you admit that Thanos had an item of Tyrant's when he fought him? That same item that was said by Terrax to be "both his greatest strength and his biggest weakeness should it be turned against him"? Do you also admit that Thanos NEVER beat Tyrant and fled once Tyrant was about to get serious?
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
If you want to look at fights, The Maker defeated Thanos during the 1st fight with a single attack; The Maker hit Thanos...Thanos hit the floor...fight over.Thanos fared much better against Odin and Tyrant in comparison...
If characters were portrayed as EXACTLY the same during their entire career in comics, you'd have a point. But it's not beyond reason to chalk that encounter up as a low showing for Thanos or say that Thanos had high showings vs Odin (unamped) and Tyrant (amped by his Orb).
That orb was being used as an offensive weapon against Tyrant...it didnt have anything to do with Thanos's durability; The Maker overcame that durability with a single attack...Tyrant couldnt put Thanos down with multiple attacks.
PR Beyonder has better feats than Tyrant, so how is being one shotted by The Maker a low showing?
I have already adressed the rest of your post...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
That orb was being used as an offensive weapon against Tyrant...it didnt have anything to do with Thanos's durability; The Maker overcame that durability with a single attack...Tyrant couldnt put Thanos down with multiple attacks.PR Beyonder has better feats than Tyrant, so how is being one shotted by The Maker a low showing?
I have already adressed the rest of your post...
Mephisto has better feats than Tyrant and yet Mephisto fought Galactus to a stalemate in his realm (and Tyrant owned a Galactus with prep).
Fights >>>>Feats.
Even if you are right, that Maker put down the exact same Thanos that fought Odin and Tyrant, Thanos later went on to beat the Maker. Thanos never beat Odin or Tyrant. He RAN from Tyrant.
Now let's put this fight into perspective.
Full Beyonder LOST vs Sliver of half a cube being MM
MM lost to Aaron the Rouge Watcher (easily too)
MM lost to Sentry.
Galactus said A/T were far more dangerous that the Maker (when her physical body died and nothing happened, she stayed dead) and it was the same writer to both events. It took both A/T to down a Galactus taken by suprise, but Tyrant beat a Galactus fully fed with prep.
You are using circular logic; Molecule Man isnt in this thread, so his jobbing episodes arent relevant...
Since PR Beyonder and DP Tyrant have never fought, you gotta look at feats and fights against mutual foes; PR Beyonder has better feats and a better showing against a mutual opponent...
The one fight where The Maker lost to Thanos, it beat itself; it sabotaged its offensive output and it made itself vulnerable...
But when The Maker wasnt "trippin" it beat Thanos like an insect; Tyrant failed to do this against Thanos...Thanos was much more than something that Tyrant could casually oneshot.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You are using circular logic; Molecule Man isnt in this thread, so his jobbing episodes arent relevant...
See this? How was MM jobbing? Since his return from Cube form and reclaimed the sliver of the power he had with Marsha. He fought : Klaw, Aaron, Beyonder, and Sentry.
He LOST 3 of those 4 fights and died in the last one.
Since PR Beyonder and DP Tyrant have never fought, you gotta look at feats and fights against mutual foes; PR Beyonder has better feats and a better showing against a mutual opponent...The one fight where The Maker lost to Thanos, it beat itself; it sabotaged its offensive output and it made itself vulnerable...
But when The Maker wasnt "trippin" it beat Thanos like an insect; Tyrant failed to do this against Thanos...Thanos was much more than something that Tyrant could casually oneshot.
And you also got to take into consideration character showings. Was Thanos having a low showing vs Maker? Or high showings vs Odin and Tyrant?
Because going again by opponents, FULL BEYONDER not deranged Maker, got owned by Owen. The very same Owen that LOST 3 of his 4 fights post resurrection.