Originally posted by zopzop
Well considering the fact that she was having a "MENTAL" breakdown and Oracle beat her earlier by shutting down her MIND. This has no bearing on her power output.Thanos was blocking, deflecting, and shielding against her attacks this time she didn't take him by surprise.
No bearing on power output?
So the attack that did the following to Thanos is in anyway comparable to those that came later!? We are at odds then as we agree to disagree...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Effortless one shot of Thanos; DP Tyrant nor Odin were able to match the power output of that lone eyebeam...and none of the Makers attacks combined from the later encounter matched that as well
"Effortless" cheap one shot vs Thanos round 1. Then couldn't put him down to save her life (literally) round 2.
Cheapshot?
Thanos was facing her, spoke to her, she spoke back, then she proceeded to blast him away like an insect; against such an awesome attack, it wouldnt have mattered if he was bracing anyway...
As for round 2, the evidence is on panel; she didnt attack with a fraction of the force she was capable of bringing into the fray...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Cheapshot?Thanos was facing her, spoke to her, she spoke back, then she proceeded to blast him away like an insect; against such an awesome attack, it wouldnt have mattered if he was bracing anyway...
As for round 2, the evidence is on panel; she didnt attack with a fraction of the force she was capable of bringing into the fray...
There's evidence? Really? Because before she "one shotted" him with that cheap shot, he only had a disagreement with her and she let loose. Second round, he claims he hurt her and yet she couldn't put him down again. It's right there on panel.
Again, I disagree that it was a cheapshot; his back wasnt to her...she didnt distract him then attack...she spoke to him, looked him in the eye, then blasted him to kingdom come with a mere eyebeam.
In the rematch, none of her attacks packed the power of that eyebeam; the visual evidence is on panel...
None of Odins or Tyrants attacks on Thanos matched that eyebeam as well...again, the visual evidence is overwhelming.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Oh, okay.Then no, I have to go with what you said. A handbook alone isn't evidence, but they can be used to backup on-panel statements. In this case, the evidence that I can see is both more specific and definitive.
It's that handbook statement referencing this event:
Secret Wars II #6 (December 1985)
See that "flat faced" being all the way to the left in the top panel? That's the Celestial "One Above All", that black being with "antlers" in the center of the top panel is Eternity, the three faced being with the purple veil and yellow skin to the right is the Living Tribunal. Remember those. They were present when Beyonder "killed" Death.
Now the Retcon
Fantastic Four 319 (October 1988)
The Beyonder was never omnipotent. He was half a cube being. Neither he nor the Molecule Man are in the same league as Eternity or the Living Tribunal (remember those guys from the previous scan that were present at the trial of Death). The Beyonder and MM then form a complete Cube.
Fantastic Four Annual 23 (July 1990)
The complete Cube from FF 319 (formed by the Beyonder and MM) becomes the new being Kosmos. This was the issue the "universal tour" Kubik gave Kosmos took place in. Notice how Kubik called himself and Kosmos "insignificant" compared to these beings. Notice that NO cube beings are present in the hierarchy of power in the universe (even though Shaper of World's was around at that time and is a complete Cube Being).
Fantastic Four Annual 26 (June 1993)
Kubik says, that Celestials are "many orders of magnitude" of power above Cube Beings like him and Kosmos. Then they are in fear of their lives because the un-named Celestial is about to judge them.
Now, if a Celestial, Eternity and the Living Tribunal were there at the trial of Death. If Cube Beings are not in the same league of power as Eternity or the Living Tribunal. If Celestials are many orders of magnitude of power greater than COMPLETE Cube Beings. Why didn't they stop Beyonder (half a Cube Being) from "killing" Death?
Because it was retconned and never happened, just like Kubik told Kosmos in the Fantastic Four Annual 23 scan above, "you only encountered dim shadows of their true forms sent by the Great Powers to ease you into awareness".
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
And besides, The Maker was crying and talking crazy during the 2nd encounter with Thanos; if you are willing to argue that she wasnt having a nervous breakdown and wasnt sabotaging itself, then there is nothing more we can say on that matter...
Key word : MENTAL breakdown. That's how Oracle put her down and that's how she was imprisoned in the first place. This didn't affect her power output. She was crying because Thanos HURT her physically.
Then what was preventing her from attacking as forcefully as it did during the initial encounter!? NOTHING...nothing other than its state of mind during that incident.
There is no evidence whatsoever to support your speculation that it was weakened in anyway; it simply didnt attack as forcefully as it was capable of...and it didnt attack in such a fashion because of its state of mind...so yeah, it DID sabotage itself.
Unless you want to argue that it was holding back for some other reason...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Then what was preventing her from attacking as forcefully as it did during the initial encounter!? NOTHING...nothing other than its state of mind during that incident.There is no evidence whatsoever to support your speculation that it was weakened in anyway; it simply didnt attack as forcefully as it was capable of...and it didnt attack in such a fashion because of its state of mind...so yeah, it DID sabotage itself.
Unless you want to argue that it was holding back for some other reason...
It was not holding back. It wanted Thanos dead for hurting it. She tried killing him before with that surprise attack and FAILED. Then when he was ready for her, she couldn't do anything to him and even Skeet forced her to go on the defensive and survived Maker's counter attack.
Originally posted by zopzop
It was not holding back. It wanted Thanos dead for hurting it. She tried killing him before with that surprise attack and FAILED. Then when he was ready for her, she couldn't do anything to him and even Skeet forced her to go on the defensive and survived Maker's counter attack.
If it wasnt holding back/sabotaging itself in round 2, then why didnt its attacks land as forcefully as its initial attack did?
Because Thanos was blocking!? BS...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
If it wasnt holding back/sabotaging itself in round 2, then why didnt its attacks land as forcefully as its initial attack did?Because Thanos was blocking!? BS...
It was enraged that Thanos hurt it, of course it wasn't holding back. Difference is this time Thanos was ready for it. It's mortal form was "vulnerable" that's it. Not weakened, "vulnerable". And "vulnerable" to what? Mental shut down, EXACTLY like Oracle did previously. That's how she was imprisoned in the first place.
