Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I don't think so. He's been kinda busy being dead when Fist worked with New Avengers and since his return they haven't been working closely with each other.Of course you could assume that now as the commander of new shield he knows everything about everyone, but c'mon...
You pointed it out, not me. But yeah, why not? Steve is the commander of the Avengers and personally put together all of the acting Avengers teams. Why would Steve not be briefed on all of the acting members? And Steve has worked close with IF recently against Deathlock in the Wolverine Weapon X series and in Fear Itself. Steve's the one who is coordinating their attacks and where to go. So he would have to know IF's abilities well to use him in the best situations..
Originally posted by Marvelknight
You pointed it out, not me. But yeah, why not? Steve is the commander of the Avengers and personally put together all of the acting Avengers teams. Why would Steve not be briefed on all of the acting members?
No, he didn't. New Avengers are indepedent and Steve didn't choose the members.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
And Steve has worked close with IF recently against Deathlock in the Wolverine Weapon X series and in Fear Itself.
One team-up in which Rand hasn't shown anything impressive doesn't mean much, at least imo.
Fear Itself? When exactly?
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Steve's the one who is coordinating their attacks and where to go. So he would have to know IF's abilities well to use him in the best situations..
He is not. They don't work for him. That's why that team even exist in the first place.
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To be fair, there is Victoria Hand who acts as a liaison between NA and Rogers, so it's not impossible that Steve knows about Fist's change. I just don't find that likely, Hand didn't have experience with Rand before that, she would probably assume his power level would be nothing new for Steve.
Anyone remembers what he said about Danny in Heroic Age: Super Heroes?
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Read the issues because you couldn't be more wrong... Wow Cap did this in New Avengers #1 vol 2 and in Avengers #1 Vol 4.... Also Cap is sending the teams to different drop hot zones all over. It's been stated on panel in Fear Itself #2
What he did was letting Cage and his team handling things their own way and recruiting any members they want.
That's the "end of the world" scenario, it's different.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Steve is the director of national security for the United States of America... Of course the Avengers and New Avengers answer to him. 😬
They are a freelance superhero team that cooperates with The Avengers.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
What he did was letting Cage and his team handling things their own way and recruiting any members they want.That's the "end of the world" scenario, it's different.
They are a freelance superhero team that cooperates with The Avengers.
Maria Hill heads up the Avengers and Luke heads up the New Avengers and they both answer to Steve...
Originally posted by Marvelknightwhy does it matter if his feats supercede an un-amped Danny if he's going against him with the ability to chi-amp? WITH chi-amping, Danny is the stronger and faster of the two.
Better in your opinion maybe. There are scans here that show Cap performing feats that were better and that Danny couldn't duplicate (without chi amping).Cap knows of Danny's power and is more tactically sound. No debate there. Cap won't get caught off guard twice, and has what it's take to put IF down with well placed attacks. Again experience goes to Steve. Cap has beaten foes who are stronger than Danny and faster and has block stronger attacks than what Danny will dish out here.
Knowing that Wolverine has claws isn't going to stop him from getting stabbed. Cap my have beaten stronger foes, he may have beaten faster opponents, and he may have dominated less skilled individuals, but Danny fills out all of the above, Steve will have no such luck.
Its funny how the arguments against Iron fists much superior, striking power, range of attacks, superior speed and overall physicality thanks to chi amping, are based on such vague things like Caps "experience" and mid battle tactics as well as constant references to an irrelevant period of IFs career.Smh
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Maria Hill heads up the Avengers and Luke heads up the New Avengers and they both answer to Steve...
Only as the T-bolts leader he answers to him. Steve wanted them to be an independent hero group. Old times style, pre-Civil war. That's why NA v1 ended, because they achieved the goal they've been striving for most of that series. Every recap page says they have "free rein to protect the world any way they see fit".
Originally posted by Marvelknight
All of this is because you don't think Steve has any idea of IF new power levels. But don't you think that after Steve gets hit once, that's enough to make an assessment of that power? Steve is a commander for a reason...
It'll be probably too late then. And striking power is one thing, what about his ability to become temporarily invulnerable (train/airplane feats), chi-healing, amping his speed to ridiculous levels (as shown in the fight with that monster absorbing kinetic energy)?
The difference between their power levels is too big. Steve's skill is not going to save him here, seeing as they are close in that department.
Originally posted by Trackz
why does it matter if his feats supercede an un-amped Danny if he's going against him with the ability to chi-amp? WITH chi-amping, Danny is the stronger and faster of the two.Knowing that Wolverine has claws isn't going to stop him from getting stabbed. Cap my have beaten stronger foes, he may have beaten faster opponents, and he may have dominated less skilled individuals, but Danny fills out all of the above, Steve will have no such luck.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Its funny how the arguments against Iron fists much superior, striking power, range of attacks, superior speed and overall physicality thanks to chi amping, are based on such vague things like Caps "experience" and mid battle tactics as well as constant references to an irrelevant period of IFs career.Smh
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Only as the T-bolts leader he answers to him. Steve wanted them to be an independent hero group. Old times style, pre-Civil war. That's why NA v1 ended, because they achieved the goal they've been striving for most of that series. Every recap page says they have "free rein to protect the world any way they see fit".It'll be probably too late then. And striking power is one thing, what about his ability to become temporarily invulnerable (train/airplane feats), chi-healing, amping his speed to ridiculous levels (as shown in the fight with that monster absorbing kinetic energy)?
The difference between their power levels is too big. Steve's skill is not going to save him here, seeing as they are close in that department.
Sorry... But IF being stronger and faster isn't enough... Cap' shield is here.. Shield>>>> IF' attacks period..
It's funny how one believes that an opponent who IS more tactical, more experienced fighter and more skilled doesn't have an advantage in a fight is beyond me. And yes Cap is more skilled in combat. Steve has been in hundreds of battles during the war and has been in real combat before Danny ever threw his first punch.
Stop trying to make IF seem like he's too much to handle when Steve has been kicking Master Man's ass for years and others who are physically superior to Danny. I've posted scans of Cap's durability. So the bullshit that Steve can't take what IF can dish out can stop here...
IF isn't gonna put Cap down with one hit or a few. Why? Because Steve's not stupid and has an enhanced mind. Everything IF does will be well documented in Steve's mind. And won't work twice on him.
Again STEVE IS A BETTER STRATEGIST! Like a chess game, Steve will be several moves ahead. And has his shield to guard with. IF isn't doing nothing to Cap' shield, NOTHING...
Don't matter if Steve gets knocked back from the force.. Where the hell was everyone when Sin sent Steve flying into a car, destroying it. Steve got right back up and pushed onward.
Whats this silliness stuff about Danny being superior in speed and strength.
Cap has speed feats that are just as good or down right superior to Danny's.
Outside of his IF(technique) Cap hits just as hard with his shield strikes and his regular punches are just as potent as Danny punches(outside of IF tech or new found blasts or Shao ocean energy usage.)
His chi healing doesn't hold up much, due to the slight concentration, unless a opponent gives him much specific time. Even with him doing it better then his past.
And his more potent IF techs that wreck hellcarriers are moot. Since Danny isn't going to try and kill Cap. Just as Cap isn't going to being throwing his shield throws that go through tanks or engines etc etc.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I don't think so. He's been kinda busy being dead when Fist worked with New Avengers and since his return they haven't been working closely with each other.Of course you could assume that now as the commander of new shield he knows everything about everyone, but c'mon...
I dunno man its his business to know everything now. If he knew about Frankencastle can't see how he wouldn't know about Danny.
Originally posted by Marvelknight
Sorry... But IF being stronger and faster isn't enough... Cap' shield is here.. Shield>>>> IF' attacks period..It's funny how one believes that an opponent who IS more tactical, more experienced fighter and more skilled doesn't have an advantage in a fight is beyond me. And yes Cap is more skilled in combat. Steve has been in hundreds of battles during the war and has been in real combat before Danny ever threw his first punch.
Stop trying to make IF seem like he's too much to handle when Steve has been kicking Master Man's ass for years and others who are physically superior to Danny. I've posted scans of Cap's durability. So the bullshit that Steve can't take what IF can dish out can stop here...
IF isn't gonna put Cap down with one hit or a few. Why? Because Steve's not stupid and has an enhanced mind. Everything IF does will be well documented in Steve's mind. And won't work twice on him.
Again STEVE IS A BETTER STRATEGIST! Like a chess game, Steve will be several moves ahead. And has his shield to guard with. IF isn't doing nothing to Cap' shield, NOTHING...
Don't matter if Steve gets knocked back from the force.. Where the hell was everyone when Sin sent Steve flying into a car, destroying it. Steve got right back up and pushed onward.
Fights aren't chess games. His tactics didn't help him out so much when he went hand-to-hand with deadpool. Being a good strategist doesn't translate well over to one-on-one fights, it's all about combat prowess, and in that respect they are equal. Steve's tactics didn't work out so well against Deadpool, Wolverine, T'Challa, and others.
The only saving grace that Steve has is the shield up against the vast other majorities that Ironfist has. A shield isn't going to even the odds against an all around better opponent.
Originally posted by Trackz
Fights aren't chess games. His tactics didn't help him out so much when he went hand-to-hand with deadpool. Being a good strategist doesn't translate well over to one-on-one fights, it's all about combat prowess, and in that respect they are equal. Steve's tactics didn't work out so well against Deadpool, Wolverine, T'Challa, and others.The only saving grace that Steve has is the shield up against the vast other majorities that Ironfist has. A shield isn't going to even the odds against an all around better opponent.
Plus, IF can just rip away the shield, or move around it.. The shield doesn't cover his entire body, and Cap has to expose himself if he wants to attack..
He's fast and skilled enough where he has more options than just beating away uselessly at it.
Originally posted by Trackz
Fights aren't chess games. His tactics didn't help him out so much when he went hand-to-hand with deadpool. Being a good strategist doesn't translate well over to one-on-one fights, it's all about combat prowess, and in that respect they are equal. Steve's tactics didn't work out so well against Deadpool, Wolverine, T'Challa, and others.
Sorry what are you talking about? Do you mean because he didn't beat them to a pulp the tactic didn't work? Considering that Wolverine has enhanced stats, is a martial arts expert and can take class 100 shots I think Cap tactics were impressive.
Originally posted by Trackz
The only saving grace that Steve has is the shield up against the vast other majorities that Ironfist has. A shield isn't going to even the odds against an all around better opponent.
Why is he better?
Originally posted by Deadlinetactics didn't make a dfference in any of the fights I mentioned because in hand-to-hand fights they don't make a difference. Do you think think a fighter with a higher IQ (in the real world) will be able to beat a stronger/faster equally skilled opponent? No. When you fight, you're testing your combat proficiency and it that area both of them are equal and have plenty of experience. Steve's ability to strategize won't help him. You ignored the two other example's I used, but even going by what you said, Ironfist has enhanced stats (passed Wolverine), is a martial arts expert, and can deal out class 100 blows, so Cap's tactics should mean nothing.
Sorry what are you talking about? Do you mean because he didn't beat them to a pulp the tactic didn't work? Considering that Wolverine has enhanced stats, is a martial arts expert and can take class 100 shots I think Cap tactics were impressive.Why is he better?
Originally posted by Trackz
tactics didn't make a dfference in any of the fights I mentioned because in hand-to-hand fights they don't make a difference. Do you think think a fighter with a higher IQ (in the real world) will be able to beat a stronger/faster equally skilled opponent? No. When you fight, you're testing your combat proficiency and it that area both of them are equal and have plenty of experience. Steve's ability to strategize won't help him. You ignored the two other example's I used, but even going by what you said, Ironfist has enhanced stats (passed Wolverine), is a martial arts expert, and can deal out class 100 blows, so Cap's tactics should mean nothing.
Look I can see what you're doing. Debate properly please you're better than this. I don't know sometimes posters that are usually rational completely lose their shit and you're losing it.