Originally posted by DeadlineI'm chill man, I've just never thought that tactical/strategic ability made the difference in hand-to-hand fights, they're completely different skills.
Look I can see what you're doing. Debate properly please you're better than this. I don't know sometimes posters that are usually rational completely lose their shit and you're losing it.
Originally posted by Trackz
I'm chill man, I've just never thought that tactical/strategic ability made the difference in hand-to-hand fights, they're completely different skills.
Look this is getting a bit semantical. Boxers and UFC opponents use tactics in fights all the time they are an essential part of martial arts. Yes if you have two physically equal opponents and one of them has better tactics that one will win. Bruce Lee said something to that effect, it's also common sense. If you don't think tactics make a difference it's just ignorance. I know for a fact they teach you tactics in boxing.
Serioulsy man have you been living under a rock or something? So when you see boxing and UFC trainers screaming tactics to them you deduced that tactics don't make a difference?
I didn't ignore the other two I explained you're definition of 'didn't work' was silly. IF isn't going to use full force (CIS). Why is IF better again? Paladin held his own against a pissed off IF while talking to Misty and he lost a sparring match to Wolverine. Not saying sparring matches are conclusive evidence mind you.
Originally posted by Deadlinethere are different types of tactical ability.
Look this is getting a bit semantical. Boxers and UFC opponents use tactics in fights all the time they are an essential part of martial arts. Yes if you have two physically equal opponents and one of them has better tactics that one will win. Bruce Lee said something to that effect, it's also common sense.I didn't ignore the other two I explained you're definition of 'didn't work' was silly. IF isn't going to use full force (CIS). Why is IF better again? Paladin held his own against a pissed off IF while talking to Misty and he lost a sparring match to Wolverine. Not saying sparring matches are conclusive evidence mind you.
Boxers may use feints, rope-a-dopes, and what not in order to get their opponent into a position they want, yet this skill doesn't translate into being able to lead an army and vice-versa.
Cap's a great general and he's a great fighter. However, being good at one doesn't mean he's good at the other. Ironfist may not be half the leader he is, but he's definitely just as much of a fighter. Ironfist possesses every bit of combat competency that Steve has.
If you have two kids who happen to have taken three years of tae-kwon-doe, one of them happens to be good at chess and the other happens to have hit puberty faster...who do you think is going to win.
Originally posted by Trackz
there are different kinds of tactic's strategic ability.
No there not.
Originally posted by Trackz
Boxers may use feints, rope-a-dopes, and what not in order to get their opponent into a position they want, yet this skill doesn't translate into being able to lead an army and vice-versa.
Those are the type of tactics im talking about.
Originally posted by Trackz
Cap's a great general and he's a great fighter. However, being good at one doesn't mean he's good at the other. Ironfist may not be half the leader he is, but he's definitely just as much of a fighter. Ironfist possesses every bit of combat competency that Steve has.
Well if you read Cap comics you know that he is good at both. His tactical ability applies to his h2h.
Originally posted by TrackzIf you have two kids who happen to have taken three years of tae-kwon-doe, one of them happens to be good at chess and the other happens to have hit puberty faster...who do you think is going to win.
Yes I can see what you're trying to do, very clever. Tactical ability is not a silver bullet if your opponent is much superior to you ie Cap can't beat Superman with tactics, IF is not superior (or you haven't proven it). If those two boys were physically equal and one of them could apply his IQ to h2h tactics obvoulsy that kid would win.
Originally posted by Deadline
No there not.Those are the type of tactics im talking about.
Well if you read Cap comics you know that he is good at both. His tactical ability applies to his h2h.
Yes I can see what you're trying to do, very clever. Tactical ability is not a silver bullet if your opponent is much superior to you ie Cap can't beat Superman with tactics, IF is not superior (or you haven't proven it). If those two boys were physically equal and one of them could apply his IQ to h2h tactics obvoulsy that kid would win.
It's not an argument that there are different types of tactical ability....being good a chess doesn't mean you're good at monopoly, doesn't mean you're good at poker, doesn't mean you're good at kung fu, doesn't mean you can lead an army, etc.
do you think manny pacquiao should take over the operations in Afghanistan?
he is good at both, but he isn't good at one because he's good at the other. he's a great fighter AND he's a great strategist. Fight tactics have nothing to do with leading a team though...there's a reason that Pete Wisdom and Cyclops aren't the best fighters despite being better strategists than Steve.
Ironfist can't destroy hellicarriers and enhance his speed to incredible levels, I wasn't aware it was still a debate of whether he was physically superior...
Ironfist is just as kinesthetically intelligent as Steve is, his leadership capability makes no difference here.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
I wasn't even aware that the Danny fan's have proven he is faster. If he is so be it, but from what I've seen. Cap's just look better.No one is disputing that Steve hits harder then Danny IF tech/carrier punches.
So debating Cap's regular blows vs Danny's unamped blows is pointless.
Unless you're thinking IF is gimped in this match...
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You are aware that these days pretty much every punch and kick Danny does is amped to some degree right?So debating Cap's regular blows vs Danny's unamped blows is pointless.
Unless you're thinking IF is gimped in this match...
Not sure what you mean about gimped. But Cap's strike vs Danny regular amped(non iron fist) are not to far off. Especially with Cap's strikes affecting the beings that he has is pretty up there and his shield strikes are even crazier up there.
Originally posted by cdtm
So what does Cap have on Danny deflecting individual projectiles from machinegun fire at close range again?Since he's supposed to be faster?
Speed feats like playing with laser beams under zero gravity.
Blocking beams with a gauntlet.
Blocking beams again with his energy shield in different areas.
Running past bullet timer Daredevil and making it look easy.
Blocking Skulls bullets before they get to its target.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Not sure what you mean about gimped. But Cap's strike vs Danny regular amped(non iron fist) are not to far off. Especially with Cap's strikes affecting the beings that he has is pretty up there and his shield strikes are even crazier up there.
That's not an outlier like Cap staggering Class 100s...that's the norm. 😬
Originally posted by Omega Vision
With a regular amped kick he sprawled out Luke Cage.That's not an outlier like Cap staggering Class 100s...that's the norm. 😬
Right. Only Danny feats count and Cap's don't. Cap been hurting bricks with his shield is the norm. Guy has done it even without the shield.
Luke Cage bah color me unimpressed.
Originally posted by Trackz
It's not an argument that there are different types of tactical ability....being good a chess doesn't mean you're good at monopoly, doesn't mean you're good at poker, doesn't mean you're good at kung fu, doesn't mean you can lead an army, etc.do you think manny pacquiao should take over the operations in Afghanistan?
he is good at both, but he isn't good at one because he's good at the other. he's a great fighter AND he's a great strategist. Fight tactics have nothing to do with leading a team though...there's a reason that Pete Wisdom and Cyclops aren't the best fighters despite being better strategists than Steve.
Moot point, hes good at both because of his IQ. Thats why Cap learn't an alien martial art in one day.
Originally posted by Trackz
Ironfist can't destroy hellicarriers
Cap has done similar stuff with his shield.
Originally posted by Trackzand enhance his speed to incredible levels, I wasn't aware it was still a debate of whether he was physically superior...
Do you understand that you actually need to prove it? Scans? Feats?
Originally posted by TrackzIronfist is just as kinesthetically intelligent as Steve is, his leadership capability makes no difference here.
Didn't say it would, his h2h tactics will help though.
Originally posted by Deadline
Moot point, hes good at both because of his IQ. Thats why Cap learn't an alien martial art in one day.Cap has done similar stuff with his shield.
Do you understand that you actually need to prove it? Scans? Feats?
Didn't say it would, his h2h tactics will help though.
Cap is no genius at all, he doesn't even rank among marvel's smartest, he's just an extremely proficient fighter and leader. Once again, one has no bearing on the other. Iron Fist is just as smart a fighter as he is.
Steve has destroyed a hellicarrier with his shield?
The scans have been posted already and feats have been cited.