Ventress and Oppress versus Kit Fisto and Obi-Wan Kenobi

^ Thing is guys Savage's strength is physical but also aided by great raw power he has in the force as well. He's not just a mechanical machine with purely physical strength like Grievous.

In the first fight in this last episode, I know Kenobi was taken by surprise (although that's a bit retarded as he was warned by Mace he'd be walking into a trap) but Savage took him out in literally a few swimgs. His very first swing completely staggered Kenobi. Kenobi clearly can not handle his strength.

Ventress also gets disarmed pretty fast by Savage. His strength is just too great.

And Sidious66 we did see Savage moving pretty fast as well. If you watch the fight again, in the 2 on 2 he dodges a strike from Obi-Wan as well.

But the deciding moment was when both Obi-Wan and Ventress agree they are outmatched and going to lose this fight.

Obi-Wan and Ventress are obviously in out of their depth. But I would like to see Anakin take on one of the 2 Maul brothers. My guess is he could take Maul, but not Savage. But you never know with Anakin the way his power level fluctuates.

Savage Oppress is strong physically but I am not all that impressed with his dueling. I think Maul is much more skilled than him and his martial arts is also superior to Savage Oppress. Since Kit Fisto can take Maul, he can probably take Oppress until he uses the force angrily. If Oppress can be killed before he gets angry and goes all balistic with the force and Obi Wan is able to hold off Ventress until Fisto backs him up, then this round will go to the jedi duo.

Well.... If the rumours are true(which they seem to be) then it looks like

Spoiler:
Sidious will get into a fight with Maul and Savage using 2 sabers to fight them both off. He kills them both but looks like they at least put up a fight. And also seems like Maul is pretty conflicted about fighting Sidious whilst Sidious is just going for the kill.

So considering that and then considering how long Fisto lasted against a Sidious with a single Saber and with Mace Windu at his side, I think it's clear both Maul and Opress are above Fisto level.

Which I'm pretty sure most people knew anyway.

Maul was conflicted about fighting? I doubt it.

Spoiler:
Sidious had just made it clear that he wouldn't accept Maul back despite Maul's efforts to try to impress him. Maul has already tried to kill Sidious when rejected, so I don't see why this time would be any different, considering that Maul seems even more evil than before.

If anything, it seems like Sidious was holding back. And not because he did not want to kill Maul, but because he seemed to get a sick pleasure out of the whole thing

Spoiler:
(allowing Maul to watch his bro die, taunting Maul about being replaced, slowly torturing him to death instead of outright killing him, etc..)

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Maul was conflicted about fighting? I doubt it.

Spoiler:
Sidious had just made it clear that he wouldn't accept Maul back despite Maul's efforts to try to impress him. Maul has already tried to kill Sidious when rejected, so I don't see why this time would be any different, considering that Maul seems even more evil than before.

Oh yeah Maul definitely doesn't want to fight Sidious.

Spoiler:
He starts the fight off on his knees for crying out loud!

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If anything, it seems like Sidious was holding back. And not because he did not want to kill Maul, but because he seemed to get a sick pleasure out of the whole thing

Spoiler:
(allowing Maul to watch his bro die, taunting Maul about being replaced, slowly torturing him to death instead of outright killing him, etc..)

Spoiler:
When Maul is watching his brother die yes Sidious watches that for a bit. But that's also the second time Sidious attacks relentlessly while Maul is on the floor. It's clear Sidious was out for the kill. There can only ever be 2 Sith and he's chosen Dooku over Maul. Whilst Maul's whole plan the enitre time has been to get back with Sidious. Everything he does is to impress him.

Of course Maul's not Sidious's equal or anything. I'm just giving the circumstances of the fight.

And we should reserve full judgement until we see how it actually plays out on screen.

For instance I highly doubt

Spoiler:
Obi-Wan bests Maul and Savage together without there being a third factor involved, (previous injuries perhaps) based on how usless Obi-Wan has been against a less trained Savage (without Maul) in the past.

Someone is butt hurt. 😉

Originally posted by ares834
Someone is butt hurt. 😉

Yes I am 😠

Obi-Wan showed quite decent performance, when teamed up with Ventress. They would make "good" romance.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Oh yeah Maul definitely doesn't want to fight Sidious.

Spoiler:
He starts the fight off on his knees for crying out loud!

That was before Sidious rejected him.😐

Him and Savage actually start the fight out by angrily rushing towards Sidious (grim stare).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Spoiler:
When Maul is watching his brother die yes Sidious watches that for a bit. But that's also the second time Sidious attacks relentlessly while Maul is on the floor. It's clear Sidious was out for the kill. There can only ever be 2 Sith and he's chosen Dooku over Maul. Whilst Maul's whole plan the enitre time has been to get back with Sidious. Everything he does is to impress him.

Maul was on the floor? He was parrying Sidious' blows, dancing back. I'm pretty sure he was standing. I doubt he was scooting his ass across the floor.

Besides, Sidious basically let Maul know he was about to kill him before he even attacked the second time.

Of course Sidious was out for the kill, that's why he was there. But nothing suggests that Sidious was in any hurry to kill Maul.

Spoiler:
Instead of killing Maul right away after disarming him, he ragdolls Maul with the force and then tortures him with lightning. It seems pretty clear that Sidious was enjoying the whole thing and savoring every moment.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Of course Maul's not Sidious's equal or anything. I'm just giving the circumstances of the fight.

Maul and Savage didn't even come close to being a threat to Sidious in combat. Sidious easily dominated that fight. He was in full control the entire time.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And we should reserve full judgement until we see how it actually plays out on screen.

It's still canon for now lol 😛

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That was before Sidious rejected him.😐

Him and Savage actually start the fight out by angrily rushing towards Sidious (grim stare).

No Maul starts of the fight on his knees and Sidious relentlessly attacks with Force TK.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Maul was on the floor?

Yes when Sidious first attacks and possibly when Maul grieves for Savage as well. Both times Sidious attacks Maul.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He was parrying Sidious' blows, dancing back. I'm pretty sure he was standing.

Yes actually sounds like he holds his own in the Saber portion of the fight. 😛

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Besides, Sidious basically let Maul know he was about to kill him before he even attacked the second time.

It's not that easy for a conflicted person to just suddenly change his mind and go all out.

The spoilers and interviews with Dave Filoni and Sam Witwer, everything suggests that everything Maul does throughout season 5 is to get back in the good graces of Lord Sidious.

He never even contemplated a back up plan if Sidious completely rejects him.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Of course Sidious was out for the kill, that's why he was there. But nothing suggests that Sidious was in any hurry to kill Maul.

You suggesting that he could have blitzed him the way he did Kit Fisto?? Nothing suggests that either. He actually came out of his way to kill these 2, not to play around. (He obviously didn't feel Dooku could get the job done).

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Spoiler:
Instead of killing Maul right away after disarming him, he ragdolls Maul with the force and then tortures him with lightning. It seems pretty clear that Sidious was enjoying the whole thing and savoring every moment.

That's when Maul's already on the floor grieving for Savage and Savage is obviously out of the fight. And when Maul was finally disarmed as well. Obviously by that point there's no threat left for Sidious. And the conclusion is final. At that point Sidious can enjoy the torture. (Evil bas****).

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Maul and Savage didn't even come close to being a threat to Sidious in combat. Sidious easily dominated that fight. He was in full control the entire time.

Come on dude when was the last time you saw Sidious go on an assassination mission himself like that?

And when was the last time you saw Sidious feeling the need to take out 2 frigging Lightsabers plus use TK and FL in a fight??

If that's not going all out and not seeing these 2 as a serious threat then I don't know what is.

Somehow I don't see him feeling the need to pull out 2 Lightsabers against say Obi-Wan and Kit Fisto.

Plus by the looks of things, Maul's not actually taken out in Sabers (apart from when he's on the floor grieving over Savage). Sidious resorts to throwing him around with the force quite a bit.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It's still canon for now lol 😛

Yes enjoy it for now! 😠

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No Maul starts of the fight on his knees and Sidious relentlessly attacks with Force TK.

Spoiler:
The force hurl was part of Sidious' rejection. After that, Maul and Savage come charging toward Sidious in clear anger, while Sidious just stands there waiting for them to make contact.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes when Sidious first attacks and possibly when Maul grieves for Savage as well. Both times Sidious attacks Maul.

The second time makes no mention of Maul being on the floor, though I can see why you would think that.

Spoiler:
However, Sidious basically let's Maul know that he is about to attack again (telling him that there can only be two sith). If Sidious found Maul to be a threat at all, it doesn't seem like he would stop his attack to allow Maul to watch his brother die, and then stand there and taunt Maul about replacing him.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes actually sounds like he holds his own in the Saber portion of the fight. 😛

Not really. All he could do was dance back desperately.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It's not that easy for a conflicted person to just suddenly change his mind and go all out.

Yeah, it is easy when rage takes over your mind. It happened to Maul in the past.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The spoilers and interviews with Dave Filoni and Sam Witwer, everything suggests that everything Maul does throughout season 5 is to get back in the good graces of Lord Sidious.

Spoiler:
And Sidious rejects it all, and then attacks him. You don't think that sparked rage in Maul?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You suggesting that he could have blitzed him the way he did Kit Fisto?? Nothing suggests that either. He actually came out of his way to kill these 2, not to play around. (He obviously didn't feel Dooku could get the job done).

I'm not saying Kit is Maul's equal or anything, but Palpatine did speed blitz 3 jedi masters in seconds. 😬

I'm of the opinion that Sidious could have killed Maul a lot sooner had he wanted to.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Obviously by that point there's no threat left for Sidious. And the conclusion is final. At that point Sidious can enjoy the torture. (Evil bas****).

Yeah, that's true. But my argument is that there can be a far stronger case to be made for Sidious not putting his all into it than there can be made for Maul. I used Sidious' torture of Maul to back up my opinion that Sidious seemed to get an enjoyment from it all.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
by the looks of things, Maul's not actually taken out in Sabers (apart from when he's on the floor grieving over Savage). Sidious resorts to throwing him around with the force quite a bit.

What do you mean?

Spoiler:
Sidious easily disarms him. And Maul was not on the floor when Sidious did disarm him.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes enjoy it for now! 😠

😮‍💨

And when was the last time you saw Sidious feeling the need to take out 2 frigging Lightsabers plus use TK and FL in a fight??

I'm of the opinion that Sidious could have killed Maul a lot sooner had he wanted to.

Originally posted by Arhael
This is arguably the first canon example of Palpatine blasting someone with TK directly. In all other material he never used TK directly. The only other character that got Force pushed by Palpatine was Han Solo.
I am not taking Plaguieis novel in equation as I didn't read it. 😄

When did Palpatine use force push on Han?

Palpatine has used the force to crush Sedriss' ribs, and used force choke on admiral Termo who was lightyears away from him.

Originally posted by Arhael
Really? Maul defeated Qui-Gon, who was on par with Windu. Palpatine's decision to use TK is not unreasonable.

Do you have a quote and source that says Qui Gon was on par with ROTS Mace? Do you even have a quote and source that say Qui Gon was on par with any version of Mace? Doesn't matter though, because Sidious is far superior to Mace without vapaad. And Qui Gon wouldn't last ten seconds against Sidious.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Spoiler:
The force hurl was part of Sidious' rejection. After that, Maul and Savage come charging toward Sidious in clear anger, while Sidious just stands there waiting for them to make contact.

The second time makes no mention of Maul being on the floor, though I can see why you would think that.

Spoiler:
However, Sidious basically let's Maul know that he is about to attack again (telling him that there can only be two sith). If Sidious found Maul to be a threat at all, it doesn't seem like he would stop his attack to allow Maul to watch his brother die, and then stand there and taunt Maul about replacing him.

To me it seems like Sidious was getting a thrill out of all of it.

Not really. All he could do was dance back desperately.

Yeah, it is easy when rage takes over your mind. It happened to Maul in the past.

Spoiler:
And Sidious rejects it all, and then attacks him. You don't think that sparked rage in Maul?

I'm not saying Kit is Maul's equal or anything, but Palpatine did speed blitz 3 jedi masters in seconds. 😬

I'm of the opinion that Sidious could have killed Maul a lot sooner had he wanted to.

Yeah, that's true. But my argument is that there can be a far stronger case to be made for Sidious not putting his all into it than there can be made for Maul. I used Sidious' torture of Maul to back up my opinion that Sidious seemed to get an enjoyment from it all.

What do you mean?

Spoiler:
Sidious easily disarms him. And Maul was not on the floor when Sidious did disarm him.

😮‍💨

I don't think we can just make things up like Sidious could have killed Maul when ever he wanted. That's just speculation. Let's stick to facts.

If we're taking this fight as canon I think we should at least give Maul the credit he deserves for lasting as long as he did(with the aid of his brother of course) against a Sidious wielding 2 Sabers utilizing his full Force powers and out for the kill.

Also when Sidious disarms Maul it's when Maul is grieving over Savage from the way have understood it. So it looks to me like Maul holds his own in Sabers which is very impressive.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
When did Palpatine use force push on Han?

Empire's End when his clone body was almost dead.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Do you have a quote and source that says Qui Gon was on par with ROTS Mace? Do you even have a quote and source that say Qui Gon was on par with any version of Mace? Doesn't matter though, because Sidious is far superior to Mace without vapaad. And Qui Gon wouldn't last ten seconds against Sidious.

I think the quote does exist somewhere either in Fightsaber or Jedi vs Sith that Pre-TPM Qui-Gon and Mace used to draw while sparring.

But that really means nothing when talking about Post TPM Mace utilizing Vapaad to it's fullest.

Hmmm, that's weird. I don't remember Sidious force pushing Han at all. Not even vaguely.

Anyway, I'll get back to the rest later.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Hmmm, that's weird. I don't remember Sidious force pushing Han at all. Not even vaguely.

Anyway, I'll get back to the rest later.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I don't think we can just make things up like Sidious could have killed Maul when ever he wanted. That's just speculation. Let's stick to facts.

If we're taking this fight as canon I think we should at least give Maul the credit he deserves for lasting as long as he did(with the aid of his brother of course) against a Sidious wielding 2 Sabers utilizing his full Force powers and out for the kill.

Also when Sidious disarms Maul it's when Maul is grieving over Savage from the way have understood it. So it looks to me like Maul holds his own in Sabers which is very impressive.

Just to say, I disagree. I think Sidious was pwning them throughout and it was obvious that he could have killed them whenever he wanted to.

And Maul no way holds his own against Sidious in that lightsaber fight. Remember that Sidious would go on to blitz 3 masters.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

Do you have a quote and source that says Qui Gon was on par with ROTS Mace? Do you even have a quote and source that say Qui Gon was on par with any version of Mace?

Doesn't matter though, because Sidious is far superior to Mace without vapaad.

Remember that Sidious would go on to blitz 3 masters.

Originally posted by Arhael
[i]And couldn't blitz Windu, who couldn't blitz Qui-Gon, who couldn't blitz Maul. 😄

Sidious couldn't blitz Windu because of Vaapad. And Windu and Qui-Gon were only equals years before RotS.

No smile back for you. crackers

Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious couldn't blitz Windu because of Vaapad. And Windu and Qui-Gon were only equals years before RotS.

No smile back for you. crackers

Spoiler:
Vaapad believer detected

Spoiler:
😄