Originally posted by Korto Vos
Lol, both you and Janus have randomly claimed me as a disciple without me ever saying anything.Can't say I'm surprised- my flair is fulgurous.
Vos solos.
/thread
You should throw in with FaunusEminence, he has benefits. Meanwhile, the long wait until Lightsnake's Advent's Crimzon's return continues.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Urmm Except he was dominating both of them together.. Its already happened.. Stop arguing things which have already happened.
I'll repeat this until you accept it as true.
Saying it over and over again doesn't make it so. (OMIGODTHEIRONY)
Your definition of "dominating" is being taken out of context. The Jedi were unable to recover and challenge him because they had nothing to land on. This isn't rocket science. I realize you're well on the left side of the bell curve, but at least try.
And quit this circumstantial nonsense.. We will see him in CW again this year, and if you think he won't be unleashing his apparent "Force Rage" power again, then your simply naive and your going to be proven wrong within a few months.
When new canon material arrives to show a newer and better Opress, by all means give us an URL. Until then, stow it.
If however you admit and agree we haven't seen the last of Opress's uber force power (this apparent one-off force rage), then we'll just have to see what creative excuse you come up with for his next Uber showing LOL
Well, considering you haven't been able to argue anything more conclusively than "Opress fought some Jedi", I'd say I have a pretty good chance unless you know, Opress actually beats Obi or another established Jedi in a fair fight with no plot-induced bull.
😕
I understand it takes a small graphic to demonstrate your lack of comprehension. No worries.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I'll repeat this until you accept it as true.[b]Saying it over and over again doesn't make it so.
(OMIGODTHEIRONY) [/B]
And Il say this one last time. Its not me saying it, its what WAS SHOWN ON SCREEN!
This is the last time im going to repeat his feats CLEARLY SHOWN, which clearly put him above Obi-Wan Kenobi:
PRE-RAGE:
Opress Put Dooku on the Floor in close combat. Something Obi-Wan has never done, and could never do even with Anakin Skywalker fighting alongside him. (Dnt give the excuse of him being stronger. Thats his advantage, Obi-Wan has other advantages like superior fencing skill. But the fact is Opress's advantages have proven more useful.)
Also although Dooku was able to handle Opress with his FL, he was never able to permanently remove him from the fight with the force or otherwise, while fighting off Ventress.
On the other hand we know Dooku was very easily able to KO Obi-Wan Kenobi while fighting off Anakin Skywalker (a considerably more powerful foe than Ventress).
And then of course Force feats, Obi-Wan has never shown he can do anything like throwing a ship the size Opress through, and one handed as well! Lol
WITH RAGE (of which you have no proof whatsoever that it was a temporary boost, and not a momnet of clarity):
Theres no way, Rage or Not, Obi-Wan is ever gna be Force choking Dooku LOL LOL (even catching by surprise), let alone Dooku and Ventress together! (On the contrary it was actually Ventress who force choked Obi-Wan Kenobi.
And of course the small matter of Savage throwing 2 Jedi across a large room with ease. Or putting an army of destroyer droids and battle droids and Anain and Kenobi all on their asses! Lol Let me know when Obi-Wan comes close to such feats. In the mean time, your arguments are terrible, and lack a certain thing called evidence.
You being in denial about all these clear feats shown to your face on television, does not make your reality true.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Your definition of "dominating" is being taken out of context.
The Jedi were unable to recover and challenge him because they had nothing to land on. This isn't rocket science. I realize you're well on the left side of the bell curve, but at least try.
What a poor and desperate excuse. The Jedi had nothing to land on.. What did you expect? There should be a nice trampaline for them to bounce off! They got overpowered. End of.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
When new canon material arrives to show a newer and better Opress, by all means give us an URL. Until then, stow it.
He doesnt have to be new and better (although he will get better after training.) But just needs to be on the level we've already seen him operate to be well out of Obi-Wan's league. The level of throwing Anakin, Obi-Wan, 3 Destroyer droids and several battle droids all on their asses.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And Il say this one last time. Its not me saying it, its what WAS SHOWN ON SCREEN!This is the last time im going to repeat his feats CLEARLY SHOWN,
Do you understand why this is wrong?
Because you've drawn a definitive conclusion of "dominance" based on a mock of a fight which was drawn to a hasty lopsided conclusion by the terrain.
Again, IF that's dominance, Sidious "dominated" Yoda when Yoda was blasted from the pod and the Sith Lord had a rail to save him, even though Yoda "clearly" beat his ass all over that senate chamber.
You seem to fail at the concept of momentary advantage in non-neutral setting != overall dominance. You've only "concluded" that Opress had the advantage in a situation which was favorable to him. Congrats. Here's a gold star.
which clearly put him above Obi-Wan Kenobi:PRE-RAGE:
Opress Put Dooku on the Floor in close combat. Something Obi-Wan has never done, and could never do even with Anakin Skywalker fighting alongside him. (Dnt give the excuse of him being stronger. Thats his advantage, Obi-Wan has other advantages like superior fencing skill. But the fact is Opress's advantages have proven more useful.)
First, this isn't pre-rage. Opress "clearly" rages before he swings so hard, he knocks Dooku down.
Second, Opress did this through his freakish strength. He's already shown that he's considerably stronger than normal sentients, as when he raised his brother above shoulder level and broke his neck with his hand. It's also obvious that when Opress rages, he gains strength, because that's a demonstrated property of using dark side rage.
Third, Obi-Wan doesn't use dark side rage. Your argument is invalid. Anakin used it with finesse instead of rawr brute strength; while he did knock back Dooku's parries with excessive kinetic energy, he ultimately opted for a subtle finisher.
Point being, both Opress and Anakin have tapped their higher potentials through rage and overpowered Dooku. But in technical skill and regular, non-rage induced prowess, neither one of them can beat him all the time. Each requires rage to overcome him.
And again back to Obi-Wan, who doesn't use rage to power up. Arguing "Obi didn't floor Dooku" demonstrates only situational strength, not clear dominance. It falls apart.
Also although Dooku was able to handle Opress with his FL, he was never able to permanently remove him from the fight with the force or otherwise, while fighting off Ventress.
On the other hand we know Dooku was very easily able to KO Obi-Wan Kenobi while fighting off Anakin Skywalker (a considerably more powerful foe than Ventress).
Dooku didn't Force choke Opress and sling him into a bulkhead, so this comparison is inappropriate. Also, Dooku effectively controlled Opress with lighting, considering he used it seven, eight times to effectively stun him.
And then of course Force feats, Obi-Wan has never shown he can do anything like throwing a ship the size Opress through, and one handed as well! Lol
It's dangerous to argue alone. Take this!
Seriously, I already addressed this above. Opress TK's the landing gear support beams which causes the ship to topple over. If he hit it with an evenly pressurized force push, it would move horizontal, not spark at its supports and then pitch over like a drunken ice skater.
Also, Obi-Wan drops a car-sized object on Grievous in seconds. With your kind of logic, his TK is faster and can throw cars. Ergo, he wins all fights against folks who have not demonstrated greater TK.
Let's also ignore that Dooku has demonstrated better TK than anyone besides Yoda and Sidious, yet Anakin who has not shown such proficiency, beat him in a lightsaber fight. Clearly, not all fights are determined by TK proficiency.
WITH RAGE (of which you have no proof whatsoever that it was a temporary boost, and not a momnet of clarity):
So you're arguing that rage, which has demonstrated nothing but temporary boosts of power and moments of non-clarity throughout the entire film series and EU material, is suddenly not the case when... Opress deliberately gets mad and does extraordinary things when mad?
Really?
I expect you to defend this Ockham's Razor defiling assertion before going further.
Theres no way, Rage or Not, Obi-Wan is ever gna be Force choking Dooku LOL LOL (even catching by surprise), let alone Dooku and Ventress together! (On the contrary it was actually Ventress who force choked Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Great response, considering Obi-Wan doesn't Force choke.
If you want to be petty though, Obi-Wan stalemated the Force push of someone who has the highest potential in the entire movie series and defeated Dooku. OMG, he wins!
And of course the small matter of Savage throwing 2 Jedi across a large room with ease.
So Force TK surprise = clear dominance all around?
No. No it doesn't. Try again, grasshopper.
Or putting an army of destroyer droids and battle droids and Anain and Kenobi all on their asses!
1. Droids can't avoid TK. So yeah, nice try.
2. Anakin and Obi-Wan were busy defending themselves, not anticipating a TK wave fueled by RAGE. So yeah, great way to conclude ultimate victory based on circumstantial evidence. Which seems to be your method of debate.
Lol Let me know when Obi-Wan comes close to such feats. In the mean time, your arguments are terrible, and lack a certain thing called evidence.
See above.
I've more than addressed your points. You've actually gone the extra mile and given me incentive and fodder to further solidify mine. Thank you.
You being in denial about all these clear feats shown to your face on television, does not make your reality true.
Arguing I'm in denial after you've deliberately ignored or dismissed my arguments doesn't constitute a victory here.
What a poor and desperate excuse. The Jedi had nothing to land on.. What did you expect? There should be a nice trampaline for them to bounce off! They got overpowered. End of.
If I push Bruce Lee off of a building when I have a tactical advantage, do I immediately become better than him on neutral ground and without the benefit of said advantage? Logic says no. You say yes. Guess who wins?
He doesnt have to be new and better (although he will get better after training.) But just needs to be on the level we've already seen him operate to be well out of Obi-Wan's league. The level of throwing Anakin, Obi-Wan, 3 Destroyer droids and several battle droids all on their asses.
What he needs is a clear, conclusive victory without terrain benefits against Obi-Wan and Anakin, or even Kit Fisto and some other high level Jedi. I doubt we'll see Opress minus rage, since it's his niche, but again, there's no evidence that Opress can even touch the Jedi with anything other than rage induced TK.
Thanks for playing.
SM
u mad, bro?
SM, with addendum by TP
Wow,EscapeJanus hauled off on DSP regardingRevanObi-Wan, Anakin, and Dooku something fierce. I think thatKentucky Amish cave dwellingpoor and desperate excuse comment either hit a nerve, or the lack of properOpressObi-Wan and Dooku worship has finally brought forth righteous angah.
😂
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Do you understand why this is wrong?
Because you've drawn a definitive conclusion of "dominance" based on a mock of a fight which was drawn to a hasty lopsided conclusion by the terrain. [/B]
And yet your the only one seeing the "terrain" being in Savage's favour. Id say being outnumbered gave the Jedi the advantage, and more than make up for the Terrain, which was not even a one-sided advantage. If Obi-Wan can only play on even ground, then he's not very good at what he does.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Again, IF that's dominance, Sidious "dominated" Yoda when Yoda was blasted from the pod and the Sith Lord had a rail to save him, even though Yoda "clearly" beat his ass all over that senate chamber.
Yeah except Sidious also fell back. Sidious also blasted Yoda's weapon out of his hand, and had Yoda running from multiple senate pods. Again not a good example to prove your point. And like you said Yoda was beating his ass around as well. So there was no clear dominance of either one. They both got in their licks. Unlike the Savage vs Obi-Wan fights. So yeah not a good example at all.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
You seem to fail at the concept of momentary advantage in non-neutral setting != overall dominance. You've only "concluded" that Opress had the advantage in a situation which was favorable to him. Congrats. Here's a gold star.
Again your the only one arguing the situation was favouable to him, when he was the one outnumbered. I dnt really see the logic there. If Sidious dominated BOTH Yoda and Mace together (which would never happen because hes not that powerful) then the terrain be damned that would prove he's at least more powerful than either one.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
First, this isn't pre-rage. Opress "clearly" rages before he swings so hard, he knocks Dooku down.
What?? Pre-Rage is everyhting before he began force choking Dooku and Ventress. If your arguing that during the whole fight he was in a rage then your clearly just using this "rage" as an excuse to deny everything Savage does as an acceptable feat. If thats what your calling rage then theres nothing to suggest he wouldn't "Rage" again to at least that level in a fight with Obi-Wan.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Second, Opress did this through his freakish strength.
Yeah so? His strength and his Raw Force TK power are his biggest advantages. Obi-Wan's advantage is his fencing skill. Im saying Savage's advantages have proven more useful, and we've seen the result of that against an opponent they've both fought - Count Dooku.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
He's already shown that he's considerably stronger than normal sentients, as when he raised his brother above shoulder level and broke his neck with his hand. It's also obvious that when Opress rages, he gains strength, because that's a demonstrated property of using dark side rage.
Again with his "Rage". Your using his "Rage" nullify everything he's done.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Third, Obi-Wan doesn't use dark side rage. Your argument is invalid. Anakin used it with finesse instead of rawr brute strength; while he did knock back Dooku's parries with excessive kinetic energy, he ultimately opted for a subtle finisher.
LOL What Dark side rage was he using at that point in the fight?? Ur talking out of your ass.. Yes he was using the dark side, and dark siders do draw power from their anger. But thats it. There was no particular boost he had at that point in the fight.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Point being, both Opress and Anakin have tapped their higher potentials through rage and overpowered Dooku. But in technical skill and regular, non-rage induced prowess, neither one of them can beat him all the time. Each requires rage to overcome him.
First of all the point of the fight Im talking about, he didnt defeat Dooku. But he did put Dooku on the floor. After which Dooku used the Force to throw him back. My point is Obi-Wan has never come close to putting Dooku on the floor in any way, shape of form. In fact he's never once been shown any advantage over Dooku in their fights at all.
As for you point about Anakin as well here, are you suggesting Anakin's defeat of Dooku is not a vaild one, because he used his rage??!
Im gna stop here, because I want an answer to this. Also I should be working!
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And yet your the only one seeing the "terrain" being in Savage's favour. Id say being outnumbered gave the Jedi the advantage, and more than make up for the Terrain, which was not even a one-sided advantage. If Obi-Wan can only play on even ground, then he's not very good at what he does.
For someone who claims that the video is full of so much self-evident truths, you sure miss the obvious when it fails to adhere to your argument.
The small size of the hovering pods prevented the Jedi from engaging Opress in a traditional fight. Obi-Wan could barely squeeze on the pod with Opress, and Anakin could not fit at this point at all. As it was, neither Opress nor Obi-Wan could decisively do much more than trade swipes because lack of mobility prevented anything more.
So that's point one.
Point two is that the lack of an actual floor ruled out concepts like flanking, sweeping attacks, running, jumping, room to recover from TK, room to dodge, etc. This is so obvious I shouldn't be having to tell you this. The hovering pods aren't all connected. There's no large arena floor on which they can all neutrally fight. The fight is dictated by Opress' attention to his hostage, the Jedi's lack of desire to actually kill Opress when they clearly had the chance, and the lack of floor so the Jedi could recover from the TK.
If this logic is too hard for you to consider, then imagine the exact same skirmish but with a flat ground under the trio instead of hovering pods of small size. The Jedi dogpile Opress. He goes rawr and TK's them back. They... oh wait, they land on solid ground, immediately recover, and an actual battle of some measure ensues.
Only that didn't happen because the TERRAIN dictated that the Jedi had no mobility to exploit, and therefore, they could not recover from the TK as they normally would. You know, like in this thread scenario where there's no hovering pods.
Numbers don't mean anything when they can't be applied tactically. The Jedi couldn't flank, engage him directly with blades, nor recover from his otherwise non-game changing TK burst. Therefore, it stands to reason the terrain nullified a large part of any advantage the duo would have had in a neutral setting. The hallway in the latter part of the same episode also effectively limited Anakin and Obi-wan.
Yeah except Sidious also fell back. Sidious also blasted Yoda's weapon out of his hand, and had Yoda running from multiple senate pods. Again not a good example to prove your point. And like you said Yoda was beating his ass around as well. So there was no clear dominance of either one. They both got in their licks. Unlike the Savage vs Obi-Wan fights. So yeah not a good example at all.
Can you really be that dense?
The point of comparing the two fights is that momentary advantage does NOT equal clear and absolute dominance, which you claim to be the case in Opress > anakin and Obi-wan. Sidious was clearly not dominating Yoda even though he benefited from terrain and fortune. If anything, Yoda surpassed him in saber combat and in Force combat. Any advantages Sidious had were momentary and quickly stolen away, excepting the final "saved by the rail" which all but cost Yoda the fight.
By comparison, Opress benefitted in that the Jedi weren't trying to kill him (or else he'd be dead literally seconds into the skirmish) and that the hovering pods presented him with a terrain advantage that allowed him to somewhat dictate the rules of engagement. It also allowed him to seize the advantage with a simple TK movement that, in a normal arena, would yield no benefits.
But you refuse to accept this because it would require you to alter your preconceived notion of what Opress really did. I doubt you've even watched the fight more than once all through this debate.
Again your the only one arguing the situation was favouable to him, when he was the one outnumbered. I dnt really see the logic there. If Sidious dominated BOTH Yoda and Mace together (which would never happen because hes not that powerful) then the terrain be damned that would prove he's at least more powerful than either one.
If you truly beleive that terrain cannot seriously effect a fight in any way, regardless of numbers, than you are beyond hope.
To put it into perspective, a couple dozen Poles defended against a German army during WWII because they had an advantage in the building in which they were holed up in. The numbers were so skewed in favor of the Germans that, on paper, they should have been crushed. But they held out heroically for a long time before being subdued.
Point being, terrain DOES make all the difference. I've pointed out so many times I've lost count the ways in which the hover pods benefitted Opress, not the Jedi. It decidedly took the advantage away from the Jedi and gave it to Opress in a few quick seconds. Then you have Opress fighting the Jedi in a narrow hallway where they cannot flank him as is their standard operating procedure in fighting a foe (Such as what they did to Dooku). Both times terrain reduced the effectiveness of numbers substantially.
If you insist otherwise, you need to pull your head out of your ass. If terrain was so unimportant, all battles would be fought on open plains with everyone lined up in perfect rows so they could fight without benefits, right? Oh wait, they don't do that, do they? Lesser forces have been known to use terrain to last against larger forces, like holding the high ground, battlements, elastic defense, etc. If you knew a thing about tactics or even just common sense, you could admit this and move on.
What?? Pre-Rage is everyhting before he began force choking Dooku and Ventress. If your arguing that during the whole fight he wa/s in a rage then your clearly just using this "rage" as an excuse to deny everything Savage does as an acceptable feat. If thats what your calling rage then theres nothing to suggest he wouldn't "Rage" again to at least that level in a fight with Obi-Wan.
Try to show some knowledge of what you're debating next time. The part where Opress knocks down Dooku comes AFTER he rages and chokes the duo. Way to sleep through the video..
Yeah so? His strength and his Raw Force TK power are his biggest advantages. Obi-Wan's advantage is his fencing skill. Im saying Savage's advantages have proven more useful, and we've seen the result of that against an opponent they've both fought - Count Dooku.
You've repeatedly ignored that in saber skills, Opress is a chump. Dooku humiliated him with ease beyond what he used against AotC Obi-Wan, and even to some extent AotC anakin, both of whom traded more blows against he Count without being floored like a complete fool. Being REALLY STRONG and having access to rage-induced TK bursts are great things, but in context, it hasn't been enough to put him solidly above a Jedi who has a larger list of victories and to be blunt about it, a shitton more fighting experience.
You've argued against Obi-Wan because he lacks the same amount of physical strength and because Opress "knocked down Dooku, but Obi didn't LOL". The idiocy of the first part should be apparent; raw strength is not the deciding factor in all fights. If it were, Opress wouldn't lose to Dooku every time, since it's clear when he rages, he's PHYSICALLY STRONGER. Second, Dooku's momentary disadvantage against Opress is entirelt offset by the fact that he utterly dominated Opress in saber combat and at no point has Opress DEFEATED ANYONE OF NOTE IN SABER COMBAT. NO ONE. EVER. EVER.
Did I mention ever?
So you want the world to believe that a really strong guy with no notably victories under his belt, who has only ever been able to "escape" from Obi-Wan through terrain advantages and rawr TK-run away methods, will somehow beat the same Jedi in combat alongside another experienced Jedi - Kit Fisto?
Put the crack pipe down.
Again with his "Rage". Your using his "Rage" nullify everything he's done.
No, it's bloody obvious that he rages to gain momentary power bursts.
Case in point:
He rages during Tk training with Dooku and lifts two monoliths whereas before he could barely even make them hover.
He rages when being dogpiled by the Jedi and Tks them away from him.
He rages when he's being humiliated and ridiculed by Dooku and Ventress and chokes them both before throwing them both around with stronger than usual blows. He rages when the droids are shooting him despite his best efforts at defending and Tks them in a wave.
In every case he demonstrates something awesome, it's always a product of RAGE. I'm not taking away from him by stating what's true and evident, DP. You're arguing his high-end feats out of context and using them to prove dominance.
Never mind the ultimate fact that Opress hasn't shown he can outfight Darsha Assant or Scout in lightsaber combat. Really.
LOL What Dark side rage was he using at that point in the fight?? Ur talking out of your ass.. Yes he was using the dark side, and dark siders do draw power from their anger. But thats it. There was no particular boost he had at that point in the fight.
Oh, I love the idea that Opress is angry, but he's not raging. I mean, Helen Keller can see that he rages. Why are you so oblivious?
First of all the point of the fight Im talking about, he didnt defeat Dooku. But he did put Dooku on the floor. After which Dooku used the Force to throw him back. My point is Obi-Wan has never come close to putting Dooku on the floor in any way, shape of form. In fact he's never once been shown any advantage over Dooku in their fights at all.
Opress' one time advantage was because he was angry/raging and he gained strength well above his already freakishly powerful level and apparently Dooku was not ready for it or could not defend against it.
Arguing that Obi-wan cannot defeat Opress because he cannot use dark Side rage and knock down Dooku is arguing out of your ass. It's not relevent, and your argument has nothing to stand on at this point. Give up already.
As for you point about Anakin as well here, are you suggesting Anakin's defeat of Dooku is not a vaild one, because he used his rage??!Im gna stop here, because I want an answer to this. Also I should be working!
No, Derp Power, I did not argue that. Had I argued that, it might have been EVIDENT in my post. I don't allude to my points, I illustate them and thoroughly defend them. Anakin beat Dooku by using rage. It's in the novelization. The Dark Side allows Dark Siders to channel rage and reach momentary levels of power. That's why anakin suddenly starts batting Dooku's parries away when only moments ago, Dooku was single handedly holding BOTH Jedi away with one hand and no apparent effort.
The point you missed is that momentary bursts of power aren't always decisive. If they were, Anakin would ALWAYS beat Dooku, as would Opress. If that rage-induced uberness was constant and absolute, neither one would lose ever, would they?
Oh wait, it doesn't work like that. After all, anakin was full of ANGRINESS RAWR and Obi-Wan fought him to a standstill before hacking his limbs off and paving the way for Anakin to become augmented.
Anything else while you're smashing your head against the monitor?
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
For someone who claims that the video is full of so much self-evident truths, you sure miss the obvious when it fails to adhere to your argument.
LOL The guy who thinks Obi-Wan can take a guy who was throwing him all over the place is lecturing me on missing the obvious!
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The small size of the hovering pods prevented the Jedi from engaging Opress in a traditional fight. Obi-Wan could barely squeeze on the pod with Opress, and Anakin could not fit at this point at all. As it was, neither Opress nor Obi-Wan could decisively do much more than trade swipes because lack of mobility prevented anything more.So that's point one.
Il give you this much.. The did give Opress one advantage in that it was difficult for both Anakin and Obi-Wan to fight him simultaneously. However nothing else in that scene gave a clear advantage on Opress. While fighting terrain was all over the place, that gives neither side a definite advantage. But Opress still had to keep an eye on both his opponents, while stopping the King from escaping.
Overall Advantage: Definetely to the Jedi.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
If this logic is too hard for you to consider, then imagine the exact same skirmish but with a flat ground under the trio instead of hovering pods of small size. The Jedi dogpile Opress. He goes rawr and TK's them back. They... oh wait, they land on solid ground, immediately recover, and an actual battle of some measure ensues.
Dnt lecture me on logic. You've shown none this entire debate. If it happened on neutral ground the Jedi would have the advantage of both Anakin AND Obi-Wan fighting him together. If your trying to prove that both Anakin and Obi-Wan together are able to take a Pre-Rage Opress, then you have a decent argument for that (though still no proof)..
But since Iv never claimed Opress would take them both (or even Anakin alone for that matter) you dnt have a point.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The hallway in the latter part of the same episode also effectively limited Anakin and Obi-wan.
Is that your new excuse? Another bad one. Obi-Wan with Anakin at his side was getting overpowred by Opress because the hallway was narrow. Right.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Can you really be that dense?
Iv been asking this same question about you this whole debate. But instead of insulting you Iv given you the benefit of the doubt and assumed your just an Obi-Wan fanboy.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The point of comparing the two fights is that momentary advantage does NOT equal clear and absolute dominance, which you claim to be the case in Opress > anakin and Obi-wan. Sidious was clearly not dominating Yoda even though he benefited from terrain and fortune. If anything, Yoda surpassed him in saber combat and in Force combat. Any advantages Sidious had were momentary and quickly stolen away, excepting the final "saved by the rail" which all but cost Yoda the fight.
Yeah except its a crap comparison, because Opress also had a sceond opponent to deal with. And Obi-Wan never once gained an advantage over him. With Yoda vs Sidious, it was one on one, with no distractions and they got their hits in. Obi-Wan never once got a good hit on Opress. Not once.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
By comparison, Opress benefitted in that the Jedi weren't trying to kill him (or else he'd be dead literally seconds into the skirmish)
Oh yeah what a huge benefit they were not willing to stab him in the back while he was ditracted by the king. Your assuming if they attempted to kill him at that point that they would have succeded. Remember the Force would give him a much stronger warning if a killing blow was coming.
Either way all it would have proven is that both Anakin and Obi-Wan can take a Pre-Rage Opress while his back is turned to them. Your points are pointless.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But you refuse to accept this because it would require you to alter your preconceived notion of what Opress really did. I doubt you've even watched the fight more than once all through this debate.
Lol I refuse to accept this nonesense because it contradicts the story Katie Lucas was trying to give us. She's made this character a beast way beyond the likes of Obi-Wan. Iv never said beyond Anakin because his power levels fluctuate a lot.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Try to show some knowledge of what you're debating next time. The part where Opress knocks down Dooku comes AFTER he rages and chokes the duo. Way to sleep through the video..
This is at least the second time im posting this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xbglrc8V44
goto 1:20
Now accept your the one whose slept through the video, and your the one whose talking out of his ass!
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
You've repeatedly ignored that in saber skills, Opress is a chump. Dooku humiliated him with ease beyond what he used against AotC Obi-Wan, and even to some extent AotC anakin, both of whom traded more blows against he Count without being floored like a complete fool.
As usual you have to resort to lies. Iv not ignored this, iv addressed it. Your talking about Opress's first training session. Im talking about Opress after his last training session with Dooku. Where he's able to floor Dooku in close combat. Something Ob-Wan has never come close to doing, even alongside Anakin Skywalker. This is what you keep ignoring.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
He rages during Tk training with Dooku and lifts two monoliths whereas before he could barely even make them hover.He rages when being dogpiled by the Jedi and Tks them away from him.
He rages when he's being humiliated and ridiculed by Dooku and Ventress and chokes them both before throwing them both around with stronger than usual blows. He rages when the droids are shooting him despite his best efforts at defending and Tks them in a wave.
So basically he rages in every fight hes been in so far.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
In every case he demonstrates something awesome, it's always a product of RAGE. I'm not taking away from him by stating what's true and evident, DP. You're arguing his high-end feats out of context and using them to prove dominance.
If he's raged in every fight he's been in, then theres no context there. Thats simply what he does. Thats the source of his power. And its power way beyond what Obi-Wan is capable of achieving.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Oh, I love the idea that Opress is angry, but he's not raging. I mean, Helen Keller can see that he rages. Why are you so oblivious?
Well am i missing somehitng. Do Darksiders not draw their power from their Anger??
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Opress' one time advantage was because he was angry/raging and he gained strength well above his already freakishly powerful level and apparently Dooku was not ready for it or could not defend against it.Arguing that Obi-wan cannot defeat Opress because he cannot use dark Side rage and knock down Dooku is arguing out of your ass. It's not relevent, and your argument has nothing to stand on at this point. Give up already.
It is relevant because its showing the advantages Opress has are more useful than the advantages Obi-Wan has, considering Obi-Wan has never come close to florring Dooku. Whilst Savage has done so twice. One pre-rage which iv just posted for you. AGAIN!
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
No, Derp Power,
Seriously if your gna insult at least make it funny. I doubt anyone but you has Lol'd at this.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I did not argue that. Had I argued that, it might have been EVIDENT in my post. I don't allude to my points, I illustate them and thoroughly defend them. Anakin beat Dooku by using rage. It's in the novelization. The Dark Side allows Dark Siders to channel rage and reach momentary levels of power. That's why anakin suddenly starts batting Dooku's parries away when only moments ago, Dooku was single handedly holding BOTH Jedi away with one hand and no apparent effort.The point you missed is that momentary bursts of power aren't always decisive. If they were, Anakin would ALWAYS beat Dooku, as would Opress. If that rage-induced uberness was constant and absolute, neither one would lose ever, would they?
So again are you arguing Anakin couldn't beat Dooku in a rematch??
That his defeat over Dooku was not completely legit, something he should be able to repeat when needed??
He had a moment of clarity as did Opress where they realised their potential, and how it can be unleashed through rage. Opress's moment actually lasted a lot longer though.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Oh wait, it doesn't work like that. After all, anakin was full of ANGRINESS RAWR and Obi-Wan fought him to a standstill before hacking his limbs off and paving the way for Anakin to become augmented.
Yeah and in his fit of rage he could not overpower Obi-Wan in a force push contest. So clearly there's more to it then just getting angry. You need that clarity and focus to use the rage effectively.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Dnt lecture me on logic. You've shown none this entire debate.
The best part is when you LOLASSERTION U LAIZ everything but the part where I blatantly put in caps that Opress hasn't beaten anyone of note with his lightsaber. Way to skirt around the hole in your argument.
We're done here.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The best part is when you LOLASSERTION U LAIZ everything but the part where I blatantly put in caps that Opress hasn't beaten anyone of note with his lightsaber. Way to skirt around the hole in your argument.We're done here.
Thank GOD we're dun! And for the record iv sed countless times, he's not finished a fight with anyone noteworthy, but he was BEATING 2 very notable Jedi. End of.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The best part is when you LOLASSERTION U LAIZ everything but the part where I blatantly put in caps that Opress hasn't beaten anyone of note with his lightsaber. Way to skirt around the hole in your argument.We're done here.
Yeah so Obi-Wan sure showed Opress 😆
Spoiler:
Oh he showed a handicap recently out of a straight jacket Maul as well. He figured running away would be the best way to frustrate Maul 😂
Anyway let the excuses begin!
Kenobi says his favorite phrase to Anakin: "We do it together". And then they both fly out of the corridor. They definitely have experience for such embarrassing situations. 😆
As for Oppress, he had much greater physical strength. But I don't think that it would be such a great advantage during duel. Jedi's strikes and blocks are empowered by Force, so they still would be able to defend against overwhelming attacks. Also, using too much strength leads to over commitment that opponent can use to his advantage.
Every time I see Kit Fisto name, I recall how Palpatine killed him. My assumption is that Palpatine managed to paralyze him with the Force but in book the way he died was different. All hope goes for Obi-Wan, he could take on either of opponents but not simultaneously.
Originally posted by Arhael
As for Oppress, he had much greater physical strength. But I don't think that it would be such a great advantage during duel. Jedi's strikes and blocks are empowered by Force, so they still would be able to defend against overwhelming attacks. Also, using too much strength leads to over commitment that opponent can use to his advantage.
Savage's greater strength left Dooku unarmed and sent flying to the floor. However, Savage is not known for his speed and has been easily evaded by an unarmed Dooku and also an unarmed Ventress. In fact, during the last episode of TCW Ventress was outmaneuvering Savage at one point, relying solely on her H2H combat skills.
Originally posted by Arhael
Every time I see Kit Fisto name, I recall how Palpatine killed him. My assumption is that Palpatine managed to paralyze him with the Force but in book the way he died was different. All hope goes for Obi-Wan, he could take on either of opponents but not simultaneously.
Palpatine killed Fisto because of superior speed.