Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well it never actually stated he got faster after accepting Sidious's speed.And the statements about Mace's crazy speed was before that sentence anyway.
Yes, I'm sure that he accepted Sidious speed like you accept your racist uncles comments over dinner. Thats clearly the intended reading of that line.
But after he'd started to use Vapaad.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, I'm sure that he accepted Sidious speed like you accept your racist uncles comments over dinner. Thats clearly the intended reading of that line.But after he'd started to use Vapaad.
The sentence about accepting Sidious's speed was after Mace's crazy speed feats.
Edit- And I would accept my crazy uncle's racist comments and then just kick his butt anyway 😉
Originally posted by Nephthys
The sentence was simply explaining what Vapaad was doing.
Maybe. I would still like some canon statement stating that Mace gets an extra boost when fighting darksiders.
I doubt that was Lucas's intention when he wrote that fight. I think he just meant Mace to be that good.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, not 'maybe'. Thats what the sentence is doing.Too bad you have no idea what Lucas' intention was though.
Yes IT IS a Maybe because it's written AFTER we're told how fast Mace is moving.
And too bad you don't have an official canon source that says Vapaad gives a special boost against Darksiders.
Now that I think about it, what special Boost did Sora Bulq get when he fought Count Dooku?? Must have been a completely useless one.
“With a vaapad one never knew how many tantacles it had until it was dead: they move too fast to count. Almost too fast to see. So did Mace’s blade.”
Sounds to me like Mace's incredible speed came directly from his own power and the power of Vapaad. And had nothing to do with absorbing Sidious speed.
It seems that Sidious was still faster anyway. Anakin could see Mace who seemed to be flashing in and out of existence. But he couldn't even recognize Sidious. He saw a speed of Blur and just assumed it was Palpatine.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes IT IS a Maybe because it's written AFTER we're told how fast Mace is moving.And too bad you don't have an official canon source that says Vapaad gives a special boost against Darksiders.
Now that I think about it, what special Boost did Sora Bulq get when he fought Count Dooku?? Must have been a completely useless one.
Is it? On the page it comes after, but the text is written out of synch. The 'dozens of blades' quote comes from Anakin's perspective (which is non-canon anyway btw) after the arrives on the scene. Then we get the explanation of how Vapaad works and then it points out Windu noticing Anakin. Chronologically its impossible to say that Anakin's quote comes before Windu's explanation.
The whole thing is bullshit though because A) The quote you're referring to is non-canon and B) WINDU WAS USING VAPAAD THE WHOLE TIME. He didn't suddenly move faster after Anakin arrived and made that observation and only then accepted Sidious' speed, he was matching Sidious' speed throughout the whole duel. If he hadn't either the increased speed would have had him pwn Sidious or Sidious would have pwned him before Vapaad (according to you) got over its delayed reaction and gave him Sidious' speed. That isn't what happened. Windu was accepting Sidious' speed throughout the whole duel.
What, the RotS novel isn't official canon anymore?
As I recall Bulq's Vapaad was incomplete, which was why he turned to the darkside.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
[b]“With a vaapad one never knew how many tantacles it had until it was dead: they move too fast to count. Almost too fast to see. So did Mace’s blade.”Sounds to me like Mace's incredible speed came directly from his own power and the power of Vapaad. And had nothing to do with absorbing Sidious speed.
It seems that Sidious was still faster anyway. Anakin could see Mace who seemed to be flashing in and out of existence. But he couldn't even recognize Sidious. He saw a speed of Blur and just assumed it was Palpatine. [/B]
Sounds to me like you're full of shit. That quote does nothing to invalidate the part that clearly states that Mace was accepting and using Sidious' speed. All it says is that Mace is fast. That doesn't mean he is always as fast as he was in his duel with Sidious.
Anakin was never able to watch the duel in canon since he only arrives on the scene after Mace has already won in the movie aka the highest form of canon there is, so that last paragraph is pointless.
Wondering how speed can be "accepted". Never heard of such Force power that could do it.
Well we'd assume he was doing more than just twiddling his thumbs for the last 800+ years.But I believe there is a canon source now that states Yoda has completely mastered every form. He is the best swordsman of the PT era.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Is it? On the page it comes after, but the text is written out of synch. The 'dozens of blades' quote comes from Anakin's perspective (which is non-canon anyway btw) after the arrives on the scene.
Ok so if that's non-canon, then where exactly are we getting that Mace was exactly as fast as Sidious??
Originally posted by Nephthys
The whole thing is bullshit though because A) The quote you're referring to is non-canon and B) WINDU WAS USING VAPAAD THE WHOLE TIME. He didn't suddenly move faster after Anakin arrived and made that observation and only then accepted Sidious' speed, he was matching Sidious' speed throughout the whole duel.
Where was he matching Sidious's speed?? You do realize that to match or defeat someone in combat you don't necessarily have to match their speed??
Originally posted by Nephthys
What, the RotS novel isn't official canon anymore?
It's not the narrator talking in that scene, and it's never clearly stated that Mace matched Sidious's speed.
Originally posted by Nephthys
As I recall Bulq's Vapaad was incomplete, which was why he turned to the darkside.
Never was it stated his Vapaad was incomplete. Mace states Vappad mastered him after his turn to the darkside. Before his turn to the dark side Mace stated Bulq knows Vapaad almost as well as he does. He actually helped him develop it.
Depa also turned to the darkside. So what can she not use Vapaad now either?? Fact is when Sora fought Dooku he was a lightsider and he knew Vapaad very well at that point. So accprding to how your claiming Vapaad works it should have given him an incredible boost to match Dooku's strength, speed and power.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sounds to me like you're full of shit.
What are you talking about??
Originally posted by Nephthys
That quote does nothing to invalidate the part that clearly states that Mace was accepting and using Sidious' speed.
We already know Mace moves incredibly fast from that quote. Accepting Sidious's speed does not equate to Sidious boosting Mace's own speed to a new level.
That part your interpreting for yourself.
Like I said show me a canon source anywhere that specifically says Vapaad gives a lightsider an "extra boost" when fighting a darksider.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin was never able to watch the duel in canon since he only arrives on the scene after Mace has already won in the movie aka the highest form of canon there is, so that last paragraph is pointless.
Yeah yeah.
As for the debate between me and S66, I have it confirmed that in the first episode of season 5
Spoiler:
Obi-Wan Uses 2 Lightsabers (his and Adi's) to fight off Maul and Savage together.
So I think it's pretty damn obvious that the only reason Sidious is also using 2 Sabers is to help him fight/kill them both off simultaneously. It's highly highly unlikely he'd be using 2 if they were no threat at all and he was just playing around.
And for those who say that if
Spoiler:
Obi-Wan can fight them both off and cut Savage's arm then Sidious can do it in a second... Bear in mind that:In the very last episode Savage comfortably beat Obi-Wan down one on one.
In the very same episode Obi-Wan is unable to beat Maul in a one on one.
Ventress has also in the past used her 2 Sabers to fight off Anakin and Obi-Wan (and seemingly had Obi-Wan defeated in that fight if not for Anakin).
An enraged Savage in the past has also fought off both Anakin and Obi-Wan and flattened them both with the Force (as well as 3 Destroyer droids and several other battle droids.)
Plus Maul and Savage are both going to increase in skill/power throughout the season before they fight Sidious.
Heard it direct from Dave Filoni's mouth that in the season opener Obi-Wan does indeed
Spoiler:
Defeat Maul and Opress together by going Jar Kai on them. Who knew Obi-Wan was so good at Jar Kai? That's actually kind of cool so I don't mind at all. It's supposed to be a stunning fight.But clearly for someone who is well versed in Jar Kai wielding Dual Sabers can give a huge boost in Saber Prowess. Because earlier in the same episode Obi-Wan with his usual single Saber can't defeat Maul in a one on one.
So anyway no need to continue this, because obviously given that info Sidious going Jar Kai WILL Absolutely Stomp these 2. So there's really no point in arguing just how easy it will be for him.
As for Mace vs Sidious, reading this again:
He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow’s rage and power into his inmost center-
And let it fountain out again.
He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt."
I still don't think he stole his speed or strength. But he obviously is deflecting the power of his strikes back at him, the way a lightsaber deflects blaster bolts.
But I don't see anything that says Mace's own speed and strength is boosted to Sidious's level. Superconducting Loop suggests the Power and fury of those strikes are coming his way then being deflectd back Without actually touching him.
So I just think Mace is as fast as he is, and he is as strong as he is.
But given that quote he can probably handle the powerful and furious strikes of guys like Sidious or Anakin quite well.
Add Shatterpoint and Wham!
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Wouldn't that have rendered your's pointless as well (rhetorical question - no need to answer) since it was already established that there was a canon source for Yoda mastering all seven forms? Good day sir!
Originally posted by Arhael
It would, if only it WAS established fact. I don't like shouting to provide sources, especially over such trivial things But since for you it is established, prove it.
Also, don't be bothered to check Jedi vs Sith, Complete Encyclopedia and Essential Guide to The Characters, I checked them myself. And based on them I say that he mastered only Ataru.
But he obviously is deflecting the power of his strikes back at him, the way a lightsaber deflects blaster bolts.
It's not like I argue against you but giving you food to support your point that Vaapad power comes from within. 😄
Originally posted by Arhael
It would, if only it WAS established fact. I don't like shouting to provide sources, especially over such trivial things But since for you it is established, prove it.
Also, don't be bothered to check Jedi vs Sith, Complete Encyclopedia and Essential Guide to The Characters, I checked them myself. And based on them I say that he mastered only Ataru.
It's a pretty recent quote I believe. Like within the last year or 2. Might have been in a Star Wars Insider. But it's definitely been stated Arhael.
Originally posted by Arhael
Don't forget that blaster bolts have impact. If it is canon fire, Jedi would need to use all his strength and we know that Sidious strength is immense. He deflected his attacks like blaster bolts with use of his power boosted strength.It's not like I argue against you but giving you food to support your point that Vaapad power comes from within. 😄
Well Blaster bolts are deflected back with the same force they were shot at arn't they?? Or are they shot back with the force the Jedi puts in? Or is it a bit of both?? Who Knows..
All I'm saying is the quote makes it clear that Vapaad Accepts and Deflects Powerful and Furious strikes very well.
It doesn't however make it clear that the Vapaad user himself gets a speed and strength boost from the Darksider. I still maintain that if it did that then Dooku could not have stomped Light Side Sora Bulq so easily. He Actually defeated him quicker than Mace did, and while fighting off Tholme.