Ventress and Oppress versus Kit Fisto and Obi-Wan Kenobi

Neph
And likewise the Jedi had disadvantages and bad luck which were also utilised. The scene is PIS. I mean Christ was that scene stupid. The Jedi just hug him? Wtf? It proves nothing.

This is pretty vague, my sweet. What disadvantages? The platforms worked in their favor, it enabled them to avoid a close quarters brawl with Opress. The droids on Dooku's ship were focused on killing him in compliance with the Count's orders. Kenobi and Skywalker have vastly superior dueling experience and skill, where is the disadvantage? They are also the single most cohesive team in the Order, where is the disadvantage?

Well theres that the platform was likely (because its the only way to make any semblance of sense from the scene) too small for the Jedi to use effective measures of submission on him forcing them to try to hug him to death ( facepalm ). Theres that the platforms stopped them from being able to attack him together and use their numbers against him. Likewise in the next fight they're in a hallway and so can't flank or attack in any manner the double-bladed lightsaber isn't very effective in countering. Then theres their bad luck at landing poorly when he throws them off. And finally they were seemingly solely trying to subdue him, as opposed to actually attacking him.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And likewise the Jedi had disadvantages and bad luck which were also utilised. The scene is PIS. I mean Christ was that scene stupid. The Jedi just hug him? Wtf? It proves nothing.

I dnt think it'd be very Jedi like to stab an opponent while their back is facing them.

I think it is very Jedi like to take the oppurtunity to try and subdue him and take him alive.

The scene just added more evidence to how Physically strong Opress is. An advantage that allowed him to to put Dooku on the floor at one point, something the Jedi's superior skill had never allowed them to do at that point.

Like Sidious66 and Turr pointed out, despite Obi-Wan superior fencing skills, he will never fair too well against Opress due to his Vastly superior Physical strength, and Raw Power in the Force (as applied to TK).

Anakin is likewise incredibly strong, physically and in the Force and Obi fought him just fine.

If this was Kenobi vs. either of them, Kenobi would win. But since this is both Ventress and Opress against Fisto and Kenobi, I'd say the Dark Jedi barely win. I mean, how much later is Fisto's battle against Grievous after The Cestus Deception?

Neph
Well theres that the platform was likely (because its the only way to make any semblance of sense from the scene) too small for the Jedi to use effective measures of submission on him forcing them to try to hug him to death ( facepalm ).

Not at all. At the 2:33 mark, Anakin proves that the platforms are easy prey to Force manipulation. With this in mind, it gives the Jedi an advantage: They can use the Force to maneuver their own platforms around Opress, free to engage the hampered Zabrak in a coordinated, two-man attack while standing on platforms sufficiently agile to avoid his superior physical strength.

Neph
Theres that the platforms stopped them from being able to attack him together and use their numbers against him.

How?

Neph
Likewise in the next fight they're in a hallway and so can't flank or attack in any manner the double-bladed lightsaber isn't very effective in countering.

And they constantly give ground, despite Anakin's vastly superior Force strength, raw energy, and own prodigious strength.

Neph
Then theres their bad luck at landing poorly when he throws them off.

Maybe they didn't land properly because he hurt them.

Neph
And finally they were seemingly solely trying to subdue him, as opposed to actually attacking him.

Er... you realize that the Jedi pursued him twice, right?

Cestus Deception was in 21BBY. Anybody know when this duel takes place?

Z.
Cestus Deception was in 21BBY. Anybody know when this duel takes place?

Not that I know of. They're going to have to reconstruct the timeline.

According to Wookiee, though, it says c. 21 BBY. I'm not aware of the actual source, though.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
If this was Kenobi vs. either of them, Kenobi would win. But since this is both Ventress and Opress against Fisto and Kenobi, I'd say the Dark Jedi barely win. I mean, how much later is Fisto's battle against Grievous after The Cestus Deception?

Originally posted by Zampanó
Cestus Deception was in 21BBY. Anybody know when this duel takes place?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Not that I know of. They're going to have to reconstruct the timeline.

According to Wookiee, though, it says c. 21 BBY. I'm not aware of the actual source, though.

We're so knowledgeable.

Z.
We're so knowledgeable.

But mostly me, right? You mean I'm the knowledgeable one, right?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Not at all. At the 2:33 mark, Anakin proves that the platforms are easy prey to Force manipulation. With this in mind, it gives the Jedi an advantage: They can use the Force to maneuver their own platforms around Opress, free to engage the hampered Zabrak in a coordinated, two-man attack while standing on platforms sufficiently agile to avoid his superior physical strength.

1) They didn't do this so the point is irrelevent.

2) The platforms are too big for them to attack him at the same time. If he stands on one side and duels one then the other will not be able to reach him from their platform.

3) Kenobi and Anakin kind of suck in terms of telekinetic manipulation. Would they be capable to easily maneuver themselves as such in the middle of combat?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
How?

As I said above, its simply too difficult for them to maneuver into position where they can actually both attack him at once. We can see in the video Opress attacks Kenobi and Skywalker just looks on.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
And they constantly give ground, despite Anakin's vastly superior Force strength, raw energy, and own prodigious strength.

I don't see how that has anything to do with what I said.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Maybe they didn't land properly because he hurt them.

Maybe my beard is made of green spinach (Wonka quote yay!).

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Er... you realize that the Jedi pursued him twice, right?

Attacking to kill I meant.

I'm still reeling from the concept that having hovering platforms barely wide enough to support two people (assuming neither of them moves their feet/legs) is somehow not a considerable advantage for Opress, especially considering that his opponents are not trying to kill him and that said lack of maneuverability puts things in his favor. Add to that the fact that the Jedi deliberately did not kill him but dogpiled him and his subsequent TK shoved them off of the already precarious hovering platform and rendered the battle completely lopsided, how does this translate into sheer dominance?

Did Sidious dominate Yoda by having a rail on his side, despite losing the Force battle and the saber battle?

Also, when your fighting style is aggressive and you're Lenny the Retard from Of Mice and Men strong, it stands to reason your opponents will give ground when they are hemmed into a narrow hallway, unless of course they are equally retarded and try to push back.

No one's arguing Opress isn't strong physically. What we're arguing is that he hasn't demonstrated saber technique above Obi-Wan and Kit Fisto (or Anakin for that matter), and that his rawr!TK isn't a conclusive winning card.

Thus endeth the debate.

SM
I'm still reeling from the concept that having hovering platforms barely wide enough to support two people (assuming neither of them moves their feet/legs) is somehow not a considerable advantage for Opress, especially considering that his opponents are not trying to kill him and that said lack of maneuverability puts things in his favor.

Anakin demonstrated via use of casual telekinesis that the pods were maneuverable. It enabled them to keep their distance from Opress to such a degree that he would be unable to properly apply his greater strength and size to his advantage. I mean, wasn't that your whole point? That in close quarters and in a confined space that Opress has the advantage? The platforms would enable them to keep their distance and utilize their greater numbers; he'd have to concentrate on one.

SM
Add to that the fact that the Jedi deliberately did not kill him but dogpiled him and his subsequent TK shoved them off of the already precarious hovering platform and rendered the battle completely lopsided, how does this translate into sheer dominance?

You neglect to mention the fact that the dogpile was the result of Katuunko's interference, for which I'd like a concession please. Moreover, how does not casually hurling them aside and dropping a platform on them not translate to dominance? mmm

SM
Did Sidious dominate Yoda by having a rail on his side, despite losing the Force battle and the saber battle?

Now that's just dirty. uhuh

Of course he didn't dominate Yoda through the railing. Though I would appreciate that you not flagrantly deceive the audience about Yoda's "victory" over the Emperor.

Spoiler:
Though you would be interested to hear about the new Senate duel animatic.

SM
Also, when your fighting style is aggressive and you're Lenny the Retard from Of Mice and Men strong, it stands to reason your opponents will give ground when they are hemmed into a narrow hallway, unless of course they are equally retarded and try to push back.

You do realize that not only is Anakin prodigiously strong, but his raw energies are superior and that (as per the ROTS script) Anakin gets stronger as a fight progresses, right?

SM
No one's arguing Opress isn't strong physically. What we're arguing is that he hasn't demonstrated saber technique above Obi-Wan and Kit Fisto (or Anakin for that matter), and that his rawr!TK isn't a conclusive winning card.

Thus endeth the debate.

I'm not arguing that Opress's technique is better, it's definitely not.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Anakin demonstrated via use of casual telekinesis that the pods were maneuverable.

He threw it at him. He didn't 'maneuver' it.

Neph
He threw it at him. He didn't 'maneuver' it.

Are we to assume that the pod can only move in a specific direction or that the Force can be used to make it move wherever the user wishes?

You're giving the duo a control of it that they havn't demonstrated. Anakin didn't surf around on that thing, he frigging threw it at him.

Neph
You're giving the duo a control of it that they havn't demonstrated. Anakin didn't surf around on that thing, he frigging threw it at him.

I mean to suggest that it is within their level of abilities based on what we've seen of them. Do you honestly disagree?

Originally posted by Nephthys
3) Kenobi and Anakin kind of suck in terms of telekinetic manipulation. Would they be capable to easily maneuver themselves as such in the middle of combat?

Whoa, whoa. Where do they suck at it?

I've not watched the new cartoon, but Obi and Anakin have never impressed me with their TK skillz.