Celestials Vs Galactus Engine

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
The weakness of this argument is that assumption would directly fly in the face of Surfer's statement that Galactus was literally the only entity left to oppose the Engine (if my master cannot vanquish the obscene Galactus engine....). Your argument also makes the implicit assumption that Galactus had been holding it back by himself for any extended period of time, however his proximity to the GE's mouth makes clear that no matter how long or how short he had been fighting it alone, he was about to lose.

This is reinforced by the fact that Medusa implicitly concurs by ordering the remnants of the Shiar and Kree fleets closer "to directly support Galactus." The 5 or 8 members of the Nova Corps are also ordered to move in to support Galactus directly. This is clearly a commander committing all remaining resources into 1 specific point, not spread out like they began at the start of the battle.

The logical assumption to me is that all of the forces of the cosmic entities have either fled or been destroyed save Galactus, and the situation is so dire that Galactus is literally on the verge of being consumed himself.

If there were any celestials left...why does surfer make the statement that they are all doomed if Galactus falls to the GE? Why does medusa basically order an all-or-nothing assault by bringing all her reserves into the center? It's because they're acting in desperation. I'm pretty sure Medusa would refrain from sending the 8 novacorps members in to certain death if even 1 Celestial remained.

Edit: There's also the fact that Surfer had already been established as the reader's source of qualified information pertaining to the battle, as seen in his explanation to Quasar and Nova that conflict had began against the GE when both thought it was just a face-off between the cosmics and the GE. I.e., at no point is surfer portrayed as being unaware/uninformed/unsure of what was occurring on the battlefield.

So if Galactus would have been the only cosmic left to hold back the Engine, he would have been destroyed with rapid succession, imo.

Originally posted by zopzop
Then why does the Surfer say, once the Asgardians are dead (from old age or whatever), then Galactus can return and consume the Seed? He could have continued his search for the Seed but the Asgardians forced him into a truce.

Um, it was the Surfer who proposed the truce in the first place.

Galactus' ultimate response to it was pretty much, "Yeah. Fine. Whatever. I'll just go eat a bunch of planets while you all go dick around with the Seed."

Originally posted by Galan007
And the weakness of your argument is the fact that you think G was able to, even momentarily, slow the progress of the GE by himself. Sorry, but by that point in time, G would have been significantly weaker then when the battle first began--and even when G was well nourished, he along with Tenebrous, Aegis, and numerous Celestials, were barely able to hold back the GE.

So if Galactus would have been the only cosmic left to hold back the Engine, he would have been destroyed with rapid succession, imo.

I understand your point friend, but as the saying goes, welcome to comics. We see nobody else there.. and we have surfer's narration. Whether it doesn't quite makes sense is kinda here nor there. IMO a worse premise is that the GE couldn't destroy any celestials or anybody else there.. when they could ALL barely hold him back and he alread killed Aegis.. which is what PG was trying to say.

Originally posted by zopzop
Then why does the Surfer say, once the Asgardians are dead (from old age or whatever), then Galactus can return and consume the Seed? He could have continued his search for the Seed but the Asgardians forced him into a truce.

Cause they said before they knew were to find the seed... Now it can be anywhere thanks to Loki....

Bluff or not... It caused surfer to propose the truce. (remember this is the guy that sold himself to slavery to save the lives of people on his planet)

They did not force him into anything no matter how many times you say it.they just didn't want to spend the resources looking when galactus would rather feed... Hence his statement about losing a herald or even staying here Vs eating...

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I understand your point friend, but as the saying goes, welcome to comics. We see nobody else there.. and we have surfer's narration. Whether it doesn't quite makes sense is kinda here nor there. IMO a worse premise is that the GE couldn't destroy any celestials or anybody else there.. when they could ALL barely hold him back and he alread killed Aegis.. which is what PG was trying to say.

Like I said: logically, there must have been other cosmics present. Just MO.

^ Galactus certainly seemed to be the last Abstract standing. If there were others, they weren't shown. If there were others, they probably would have been noted by Surfer. If there were others, so much attention on Galactus probably wouldn't have been laid.

Also, I think the Abstracts were certainly holding the GE off. I don't think they were "barely" holding it off. It's why Quasar said the GE wasn't doing anything and just sitting there in a standoff, prompting Surfer to chastise his limited perception. Eventually the Abstracts did start falling. But maybe the GE's power was being diminished at the same time the Abstracts' forces were being diminished.

On this note though, it was also alluded to by bystanders that the Abstracts seemed to be in retreat, so maybe they weren't all destroyed like Aegis definitively was on-panel. Maybe they were doing all they could and then backed off lest being annihilated.

Ya'll can reread the Cancerverse War here (posted in reverse order):

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Added the Cancerverse War battle, and also fixed some things and added some other scans mostly in the "Energy Manipulation" section (waiting 'till Chaos War ends before adding anything if I can add anything at all...):
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/

Originally posted by Galan007
True, but imo it's more logical to assume Galactus still had some help, then it is to assume he had no help at all.

...Unless you think he was capable of single-handedly holding back the GE in a weak(er) state than he started at..?

Originally posted by Galan007
And the weakness of your argument is the fact that you think G was able to, even momentarily, slow the progress of the GE by himself. Sorry, but by that point in time, G would have been significantly weaker then when the battle first began--and even when G was well nourished, he along with Tenebrous, Aegis, and numerous Celestials, were barely able to hold back the GE.

So if Galactus would have been the only cosmic left to hold back the Engine, he would have been destroyed with rapid succession, imo.

Except my argument is corroborated with writers' intent and on-panel statements. You can disagree with the assessment but your disagreeing with it doesn't mean it's "the logical conclusion."

Galactus and 4 Celestials vs. the Engine

the very next panel that depicts the battle

This scan even confirms that Galactus is opposing the Engine on his own at this specific "pivotal juncture". It would not be a "pivotal juncture" unless the success of Galactus was the complete and whole deciding factor. Surfer all but confirms that unless Galactus (and Galactus alone...he does not name ANY Celestials) can defeat the engine, then they will all die, per his logical conclusion.

Medusa: Move our ships to support Galactus....I have instructed the Nova Corps to support Galactus directly.

Really..is Galactus so alone that the remains of battered fleets and a handful of Nova Corps members are required to fill positions where 2 proemial gods and over 19 Celestials once stood? Apparently so.

As I said, you can disagree with it all you want, but you go against what is clearly the writers' intent that Galactus is alone.

^ Thumbnails, dude! 😖

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Thumbnails, dude! 😖

Nah, because I posted thumbnails of these scans the other day, and they were pretty much cast aside in favor of "Galactus couldn't be fighting by himself"

So Full Screen Evidence is now in effect for double page splash

i don't think you guys are realizing the scale of the battlefield here. galactus is dead center and all you can see are the galactus engine's teeth, that's how spread out the abstracts are from one another.

galan posted the a shot of something like half of the 616 abstracts, and judging from the 2000 ft tall celestials, then the exitar + size face of the galactus engine, the fault itself is thousands of miles across with celestials across it.

you can't see them when galactus is the focal point from a one dimensional point of view.

^ Galactus being the focal point is deliberate, I believe. It's up to interpretation, but the progression from over a dozen Abstracts at the outset of the battle (count all the giant dudes in the foreground and background):
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/ThanImp_2_028.jpg

To where Quasar is mentioning that the Abstracts seem to be in retreat and just five Abstracts show up on-panel much later in the battle after Aegis dies:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/ThanImp_3_019.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/ti-09-10.jpg

Until finally Galactus is (by all appearances) all by himself:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/thanos_06_007-008.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/thanos_06_016.jpg

This seems more a deliberate plotting device than just accidental tunnel-vision artistry.

And that's why Big G is a step up from Skyfather level.

Because, you didn't see Odin out there helping Galactus defend the entire multiverse, did you. 😛

He couldn't even handle the fourth host, let alone make the stand Galactus made.

Originally posted by Galan007
I disagree completely, but that's neither here nor there.

Agreed to disagree.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Galactus certainly seemed to be the last Abstract standing. If there were others, they weren't shown. If there were others, they probably would have been noted by Surfer. If there were others, so much attention on Galactus probably wouldn't have been laid.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Also, I think the Abstracts were certainly holding the GE off. I don't think they were "barely" holding it off.

So yeah, previously in the story the cumulative efforts of Galactus (presumably well nourished) + Tenebrous + Aegis + multiple Celestials were barely enough hold the GE at bay. So if Galactus (who was surely weaker by the final issue) was holding it back all by himself, then it's PIS/stupidity of the highest order.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
On this note though, it was also alluded to by bystanders that the Abstracts seemed to be in retreat, so maybe they weren't all destroyed like Aegis definitively was on-panel. Maybe they were doing all they could and then backed off lest being annihilated.

---

Anyhow, the aforementioned happenings really aren't conclusive either way (as I'm sure you'd agree with.) But it's just really hard for me to imagine Galactus holding back the GE unaided--even for a moment.

i agree with galan. mostly because odg is opposed. 😄

he

Originally posted by Galan007
The engagement zone stretched across 2 parsecs. I doubt Galactus was waging a 2 parsec-wide battle from the one position he was depicted in... Especially considering it looked like he was about to be overtaken at that point in time. /shrug

"Our universe's Galactus and the other high abstracts are barely holding it [the GE] in check." *see the laughably huge scans PCII posted above*

So yeah, previously in the story the cumulative efforts of Galactus (presumably well nourished) + Tenebrous + Aegis + multiple Celestials were barely enough hold the GE at bay. So if Galactus (who was surely weaker by the final issue) was holding it back all by himself, then it's PIS/stupidity of the highest order.

Maybe, but that'd still mean Galactus was the only fella there who was holding back the GE--something I simply cannot agree with.

---

Anyhow, the aforementioned happenings really aren't conclusive either way (as I'm sure you'd agree with.) But it's just really hard for me to imagine Galactus holding back the GE unaided--even for a moment.

The width of the fault has nothing to do with it. The whole area of battle stretched 2 parsecs but it was made abundantly clear that Galactus and the others were combating the GE alone ("most monstrous threat by far" etc.) while the fleets of "over 100" stellar races were waging war against the belief ships and the cancerverse creatures that stretched over 2 parsecs, the real center of the battle was on the GE.

Medusa stated the gravest threat by far was the Galactus Engine. The Galactus Engine arrived as a response to the arrive of Galactus and the others. At that instance the focal point of the conflict centered around the most powerful combatants, the GE vs. the cosmic entities/beings. As incredulous as you are to the thought that Galactus is facing the engine alone, I am several times more incredulous that the Celestials would be wasting their time aiding kree and shiar ships in battle while Galactus contended with the Engine, or that they are simply depicted "off panel" while the outcome of the entire battle was being decided at a specific location with specific consequences, as stated by SS.

And I am 'several times more incredulous' that a [weakened] Galactus alone was able to do something that he (well nourished), along with numerous other cosmics, were barely able to do beforehand.

If me and 10 of my buddies struggle to flip a truck over, there's no way in hell I'm flipping it over by myself. Just saying.

If you and your buddies get it close enough to the tipping point, maybe the realization that you're the last man standing causes an adrenaline surge, or whatever, and you're able to finish the job.

You see, I believe in you Galan and I know that you're twice the person your crummy buddies are! 😄

But TBH I don't now if Galactus can absorb ambient energy remnants from his fallen comrades or if perhaps he was willing to go all in with the energy remaining. In a manner similar to DOS Supes.

Originally posted by Galan007
The engagement zone stretched across 2 parsecs. I doubt Galactus was waging a 2 parsec-wide battle from the one position he was depicted in... Especially considering it looked like he was about to be overtaken at that point in time. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
"Our universe's Galactus and the other high abstracts are barely holding it [the GE] in check." *see the laughably huge scans PCII posted above*

Originally posted by Galan007
So yeah, previously in the story the cumulative efforts of Galactus (presumably well nourished) + Tenebrous + Aegis + multiple Celestials were barely enough hold the GE at bay. So if Galactus (who was surely weaker by the final issue) was holding it back all by himself, then it's PIS/stupidity of the highest order.

Maybe, but that'd still mean Galactus was the only fella there who was holding back the GE--something I simply cannot agree with.

---

Anyhow, the aforementioned happenings really aren't conclusive either way (as I'm sure you'd agree with.) But it's just really hard for me to imagine Galactus holding back the GE unaided--even for a moment.