Celestials Vs Galactus Engine

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
But I don't see how a desperate last stand is so unbelievable unless you think the GE never could be weakened and operated at constant power levels from beginning to end.

...That is something you just won't convince me of.

^ It was a weaponized Galactus. And Galactus was the last Abstract standing to take it on. /shrug

So I take it that you believe Death of Superman to be PIS? So I take it that you believe War of the Green Lanterns to be PIS? Since those situations are completely analogous?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ It was a weaponized Galactus. And Galactus was the last Abstract standing to take it on. /shrug

So I take it that you believe Death of Superman to be PIS? So I take it that you believe War of the Green Lanterns to be PIS? Since those situations are completely analogous?

dos? how so?

Originally posted by Galan007
And I am 'several times more incredulous' that a [weakened] Galactus Superman alone was able to do something that he (well nourished full strength), along with numerous other cosmics superheroes, were barely able to do beforehand.

If me and 10 of my buddies struggle to flip a truck over, there's no way in hell I'm flipping it over by myself. Just saying.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And Superman actually defeated Doomsday, he didn't just hold him off momentarily. Hal and Krona... well it's obvious how much more 'several times more incredulous' Galan007 ought to be over that.

the hal/krona i got, but wasn't there some mention of dd weakening in that arc near the end? can't recall exactly. i think the intention of that arc was a little different as well. it was MEANT to be a glorious death for superman. not sure the same thing was intended for galactus. i'm actually unsure of just what was intended in that scene with g. it always struck me as odd that g could fight so long and not appear to be weakened though when so many other times he weakened quickly. 😬

^ Superman took him on solo for several issues, after he and the Justice league got wrecked and after he and Maxima got wrecked. I think Superman speculated that he hoped Doomsday was getting weaker in the second to last issue. But even after Doomsday wrecked Maxima and Superman, Superman stated in their next engagement that Doomsday hadn't weakened one iota at all while he was seriously winded. So, to play devil's advocate, Galan007 would have had serious issues with Superman goin solo at that point. And there were still several issues left of Superman taking him on solo before Superman ultimately killed him.

yeah, i get what you're saying, but i think the situations aren't (exactly) analgous due to the intended outcome of the events. i thought supes was also sort of saving himself a little--he realized it was going to take his very GREATEST effort to win. that final attack was he BEST shot. i'm not sure galactus did anything analagous to that. i see what you're getting at, i just don't think the dos case is an apt one. galan however doesn't need me piping up for him.... and i really don't want him thinking i'm trying to steal some alone time with you. i know how you 2 are..... heh

^ You keep focusing on the final outcome. I'm starting to focus on Superman holding off Doomsday for several issues after the Justice League went down and the Superman/Maxima tag team went down.

That solo effort lasted several issues and Superman states during that solo effort that Doomsday hadn't seemed to weakened one iota whereas he was messed up by admission and by all physical appearances.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You keep focusing on the final outcome. I'm starting to focus on Superman holding off Doomsday for several issues after the Justice League went down and the Superman/Maxima tag team went down.

That solo effort lasted several issues and Superman states during that solo effort that Doomsday hadn't seemed to weakened one iota whereas he was messed up by admission and by all physical appearances.

but do you agree that superman was (by character) holding back until he fully undertstood what it would take to finish dd?

by contrast, i don't think g was EVER holding anything back. his best would likely have come at the start whereas supes was weakened then used his GREATEST attack at the very end. g simply continually expended energy and by all reason should just have been growing steadily weaker.... at least no 'revelatory' attack seemed to come from galactus as it did from supes.

Originally posted by leonidas
but do you agree that superman was (by character) holding back until he fully undertstood what it would take to finish dd?

by contrast, i don't think g was EVER holding anything back. his best would likely have come at the start whereas supes was weakened then used his GREATEST attack at the very end. g simply continually expended energy and by all reason should just have been growing steadily weaker.... at least no 'revelatory' attack seemed to come from galactus as it did from supes.

...And comparing the actions of the cosmics in TI, to those of Superman in DoS is simply a bad analogy.

^ lol, just lol, whatever, this conversation has played itself out

Originally posted by leonidas
but do you agree that superman was (by character) holding back until he fully undertstood what it would take to finish dd?

Originally posted by leonidas
by contrast, i don't think g was EVER holding anything back. his best would likely have come at the start whereas supes was weakened then used his GREATEST attack at the very end. g simply continually expended energy and by all reason should just have been growing steadily weaker.... at least no 'revelatory' attack seemed to come from galactus as it did from supes.

iyo, was superman holding back intentionally because he was unwilling to unleash a killing blow on dd (one that may have been enough to kill HIM as well)? did he save his best for the end?

and likewise, galactus was never depicted in anyway at all, of using his greatest power at the end. therefore i think it logical to assume he was simply expending a constant amount of power THROUGHOUT the fight. if true, his power (by its nature and historical depictions) SHOULD have been waning. now, had he used some kind of herlad my rage attack (that a weakened g HAS shown) i would agree with you completely. THAT attack (and the way he was shown in relationship to it) was more in line with dos than this arc imo.

of course, we're likely off topic, but.... whatever. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
And I am 'several times more incredulous' that a [weakened] Galactus alone was able to do something that he (well nourished), along with numerous other cosmics, were barely able to do beforehand.

If me and 10 of my buddies struggle to flip a truck over, there's no way in hell I'm flipping it over by myself. Just saying.

The shortcoming in your analogy is that at no point was Galactus about to triumph on his own, that was made pretty clear by the desperation in dialog and the "matter of fact" statement by Surfer. And if you wanted to carry this further, even if 9 out of the 10 drop out due to sheer exhaustion, the 1 who outlasts the rest is still holding up the car, if even for the briefest amount of time, regardless of how imperceptible you might be to it.

I don't find it farfetched at all to consider that Galactus was able to defend himself in a superior fashion or evade the attacks better than the Celestials. The whole battlefield is in retreat and Galactus is the last line of defense. You obviously disagree with it but the facts are the facts and as I mentioned in another thread, I talked with DnA last year at the NYCC, which took place in October (before issue 6 but after issue 5) and I asked them what Galactus' role would be in issue 6. They simply replied to me that Galactus is the last abstract facing the engine. The scans corroborate their intent.

Whether you want to ascribe it to superior shielding, tactics, or the unique factor that Galactus is facing--for all intents and purposes--a copy of himself while the Celestials are not, he is the last one remaining and the last one combating the engine. I simply ascribe it to story progression and writers' intent. You can call it PIS, but the fact is he was the last one remaining; at no point in the battle does the GE demonstrate the ability to wipe out multiple Celestials wholesale, so 1 remaining from many is absolutely within realm of possibility.

Tiamut is in this battle

Tiamut>Big G

Celestials FTW

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
The shortcoming in your analogy is that at no point was Galactus about to triumph on his own

Never once did I say that it appeared as though Galactus "was about to triumph" over the GE. Rather, I said that based on the fact that he + numerous other cosmics had barely been able to hold back the GE beforehand, there's no conceivable way he alone should have been able to--even for a moment. If he was capable of holding back the GE all by himself (and in a weaker state than he started at, btw) then why had he, along with multiple cosmics, previously been struggling to do so..?

Again, you simply will not convince me Galactus was soloing the GE for any length of time. Sorry, but I'm not budging on this one.

Remember the time Galactus ate Tiamut? 😱

Originally posted by Bentley
Remember the time Galactus ate Tiamut? 😱

Remember at the time it was Tiamut that altered Galactus into that universe eater (while Tiamut was IMPRISONED) and Galactus couldn't stop him? Remember at the time the only reason he was up and about was because his Deviant slaves devised a way to get him to near full power by building power generators in his prison and feeding him the energy. Remember at the time Reed discovered this, destroyed the generators, and depowered Tiamut as he flew into Galactus' stomach?

Remember the time Galactus trembled in fear when Tiamut arose from his slumber?

Tiamut stomps Galactus.

Originally posted by Galan007
You've misunderstood my entire stance if you think this what I was arguing.

Never once did I say that it appeared as though Galactus "was about to triumph" over the GE. Rather, I said that based on the fact that he + numerous other cosmics had barely been able to hold back the GE beforehand, there's no conceivable way he alone should have been able to--even for a moment. If he was capable of holding back the GE all by himself (and in a weaker state than he started at, btw) then why had he, along with multiple cosmics, previously been struggling to do so..?

Again, you simply will not convince me Galactus was soloing the GE for any length of time. Sorry, but I'm not budging on this one.

Originally posted by Bentley
Remember the time Galactus ate Tiamut? 😱

Zop beat me to it

😛

Originally posted by zopzop
Remember at the time it was Tiamut that altered Galactus into that universe eater (while Tiamut was IMPRISONED) and Galactus couldn't stop him? Remember at the time the only reason he was up and about was because his Deviant slaves devised a way to get him to near full power by building power generators in his prison and feeding him the energy. Remember at the time Reed discovered this, destroyed the generators, and depowered Tiamut as he flew into Galactus' stomach?

Remember the time Galactus trembled in fear when Tiamut arose from his slumber?

Tiamut stomps Galactus.

Tiamut used Galactus because Galan is intrinsically more powerful, even if he may not use that power in his regular self he is potentially more dangerous.

I admit that it's entirely possible that Tiamut beats a non-weaponized Galactus, luckily for us, this time the Celestials are facing exactly that.