Dante (DMC) vs. Carnifex (40k)

as i said. 12ga vs .75 calibur. huge difference in size. meaning difference in power. im not saying its exactly equal to. im saying it can be done by todays modern standards. you ever see the difference between a 9mm round and a .44 magnum round when it hits something? that aa-12 i could call a 9mm round compared to a bolter .50 cal round. (by todays standards) so weaponry like a bolter could be made. hell, just look up the metal storm automated weaponry thats coming out. firing full on self propelled grenades by the thousands in a few seconds.

and that codex line doesnt prove the fex was or wasnt a regen biomorph. and the wording used doesnt say it was on the planets surface. natural rock formation rising out of the swirling dust storms. hmmn. still looks to me like it was coming out from the ground. meaning underground. read up on hive fleet jormungandr. and how they assaulted planets. rippers, ravagers, and trygons could easily survive exterminatus in the same way.

and dante doesnt need to match the power of exterminatus. thats was one fex. of a planet full of 'nids. and they bombed it to hell with a much smaller yield orbital strike which totally annihilated it.

and the power of a star? no. more like the heat of the surface of one. which id have to add that lightning can do too. and theres been reports of people being struck by lightning 7 times. look up 'roy sullivan". that being said, dantes swords have had lightning crackling through them. oh look. lightning strikes with the heat of the surface of the sun, too. funny that, isnt it?

oh, plasma..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_(physics)
super. heated. gasses.
dante was fighting creatures called frosts. in the volcanic heat of hell. to which they didnt give a wherehouse full of crap about being in. their ice held. against the ifrit flames, they shattered like chumps. which suggests crazy high temps, at least much, much more than surpassing volcanic heat.

and thats OOE. whos regens rates make it the deadpool of carnifexes. OOe is not the standard regenerating fex. normal fexes cant come back from death. OOE can. all that regen means to dante is that as the battle goes on, the fex will slowly regain its hp bar over time.. O_o. which he's dealth with before. try actually playing a devil may cry game, and try it on dante must die mode.

and ive already heard and expressed my opinions about the wraithbone towers. strength is one thing. but the physics of a 15 foot tall creature toppling a tower that (judging by the images) would be drawfing modern sky scrapers, tells me the fluff isnt specific in size of the towers.

and peircing space marine armour with ease?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFkFo5SBx-g
orks with crude and jagged choppas are getting through that armor no problem. i dont see why dantes sword couldnt. and didnt you say they could also survive exterminatus just be hunkering down and letting it wash over them?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSOp3mMcYdU&feature=related
like that? most of the exterminatus effect is heat, concussion, and vaporisation of the atmosphere. its not really focused on dealing concentrated damage to any one thing.

and as for your arguements on dantes strengths. you're trying to compare supernaral powers vs technological and biological. dante is supernatural. demonic. how well does a demonically crafted sword, forged thousands of years in the past measure up in 40k? because thats what dantes sword is.

and its not really easy to gauge tone over text. we've talked before, dude. ive seen you for holloween. O_o.. kratos dressed at mario, right?

and dude.. have you played ANY dmc game? because ive played 1-4, and tabletop 40k, dawn of war 2, space marine, and killteam. im going to say i dont think ive read as many 40k books as you, nor have i read into as many doxes as you probably have. (nids 4th edition, black templar, tau, IG, orks, and some necron) as far as the books ive read. gaunts ghosts. the first two omnibus's, the 13th legion omni, ravenor omni (1st one), eisenhorn omni. thats the sum of my XP in 40k and dmc.

so, im pretty confident that im pulling above avarage insight from both mythos. and im getting the feeling you havent played any dmc game, and have no idea of dantes feats. (nearly all of them you control in game, and would have to play to really compare)

Where does it say plasma weapons strike with the heat of a star? any part of a star? all it seems to say is with the energy of a "small star". Also ceramite is as its name implies, a ceramic, we use ceramics in our armour from time to time.

plasma cutters used today can burn at over 300 degrees kelvin. the surface of the sun burns at 5,778 kelvin. at 0 kelvan is consitered absolute zero. nothing can go below it. all molecular and atomic movement stops at 0 kelvin.

But what says a plasma gun burns at 5778 kelvan?

nothing does. nothing in the 40k fluff (that ive seen) gives plasma weaponry any specific temperature. im just going by the temp of plasma as is created today.. and plasma happening in nature. (meaning space, stars, ect.)

oh.. here..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYaSRIbPWkM
part 1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_HRQNd84ZA&feature=related
part 2.
ceramic body armor. stops grenades. stops rifle rounds. by breaking. it absorbs the impact and breaks, letting the force spread out over an area. works really well. 40k stuff would obviously work alot better. but they also used ceramic steel in the halo mythos. and plasma tore through that like butter.

Plasma is quite a general term I guess, it can cover a large variety of things so the plasma bolts are ambigious, we can only go by their direct feats which is so far being able to melt into Marines and burn eyes off Carnifex'.

You brought up a decent point about Orks and their choppas harming marines, I doubt each "choppa" has any special properties either and average Orks are not all that strong tbh, their strikes do not knock back marine bodyweight, at least not in the sources I have seen, mostly games since ive not read novels on Orks.

I could probably name many things that can harm Marines if I had recently read the omnibus because they get damanged quite often, they dont often come out of any of their stories unharmed. We only know small arms fire like las guns are only so effective.

very good point you have there. and im pretty sure, if i remember my lore that small squads of space marines can bring down fex's pretty easily, if its not backed up by other 'nids. using old one eye is kind of an overpowered referance. hes a "hero" unit. and a legendary one at that. theres only supposed to be one of him throughout all of the nids biofleets.

Well hes a special case, like the Red terror.

and the doom of malan'tai, (that might be misspelled) and the parasite of mortrex... yeah.. so its kind of useless comparing OOE's feats here.

Originally posted by Matthias Fenris
plasma cutters used today can burn at over 300 degrees kelvin. the surface of the sun burns at 5,778 kelvin. at 0 kelvan is consitered absolute zero. nothing can go below it. all molecular and atomic movement stops at 0 kelvin.

Incidentally, those Frost guys are apparently below absolute zero. So, there's that. Demons, man.

You brought up a decent point about Orks and their choppas harming marines, I doubt each "choppa" has any special properties either and average Orks are not all that strong tbh, their strikes do not knock back marine bodyweight, at least not in the sources I have seen, mostly games since ive not read novels on Orks.

Well, Orks are a special case. They way I understand, each Ork has a small psychic ability, and more Orks increase the size and strength of that ability. This lets them warp (pun) reality in small and very specific ways, and this manifests pretty weirdly.

You may have heard about how Ork vehicles go faster if they're painted red? That's part of the Ork mindset, they believe that red vehicles go faster, so when a bunch of Orks are nearby, that vehicle actually will go faster. In a similar way, a lot of Ork weapons work because the Orks believe they will. IIRC, sometimes Ork guns will be found and they'll be nothing more than a box with some bullets inside. But an Ork can apparently pick this up and then proceed to shoot someone with it.

I think Orks can cut ceramite just because they don't know it's supposed to be tough. And Choppas are supposed to chop things, so they do.

(I have no source; I read this on Tvtropes.)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClapYourHandsIfYouBelieve

i read through that and was starting to belive you before I realised its not from an in-universe lore description although I think its an interesting thing you brought up, and makes a strnage sort of sense because Ork equipment is typically pretty poor, I always wondered how they could run unarmoured with poorly crafted weapons at all these high tech and magically powerful races and considering their connection to their Gods Gork and Mork this may have some sense in it.

Do they really go faster? Red painted vehicles? I only know the upgrade in Dawn of War allows this to happen.

There was a upgrade in 3rd edition that added an inch to the vehicle's speed. I dunno if it's still there.

I could tell you about Necrons. I know nothing of Orks.

that is actually in the ork codex. "THA RED ONES GO FASTAH!" painting a weapon red is also supposed to make it fire faster. i forget what blue means, though..

but it is documented that most ork weaponry cant be used effectively by humans because.. well.. it doesnt work in human hands. orks are halarious. read the codex. its filled with lawls.

Hm most interesting. I have been reading through the Warhammer wiki on Orks nad it does say something like this, not sure it works on Choppas but it says machinery that uusally would never work, works because orks think it should. if only you could combine this ability with the imperium...Orks and the imperium as allies would be great fun.

there ARE 'some' orks who will work for the imperium as mercenaries. and by imperium, i mean humans. because any force of the imperium would shoot orks on sight. i think in the 13th legion books, it shows orks using humans as workers in a besieged hive city. and also working outside fo humanity cordoned space as mercinaries for other species...

as i said. 12ga vs .75 calibur. huge difference in size. meaning difference in power. im not saying its exactly equal to. im saying it can be done by todays modern standards.

The power is not just relative to size, I'm telling you and trying to explain to you that the bolter is a weapon that far outclasses any modern weapon we have. It is more deadly than the lasgun which has punched through two meters of concrete and has a multiple megajoule output according to Imperial Armour.

and that codex line doesnt prove the fex was or wasnt a regen biomorph. and the wording used doesnt say it was on the planets surface. natural rock formation rising out of the swirling dust storms. hmmn. still looks to me like it was coming out from the ground. meaning underground. read up on hive fleet jormungandr. and how they assaulted planets. rippers, ravagers, and trygons could easily survive exterminatus in the same way.

Read this again, please. The Carnifex was dormant until it noticed them. You cannot dig while you're dormant. It was 'rising out of the ground' in the same way a tree does. By being on the surface and towering over what's around you.

Regen carnifexen do not need to hibernate to heal rapidly, they can heal so quickly that it's effective to do so in battle, and it does not require dormancy. This Carnifex was laying there hibernating until they woke it up.

and dante doesnt need to match the power of exterminatus. thats was one fex. of a planet full of 'nids. and they bombed it to hell with a much smaller yield orbital strike which totally annihilated it.

nd the power of a star? no. more like the heat of the surface of one.

dante was fighting creatures called frosts. in the volcanic heat of hell. to which they didnt give a wherehouse full of crap about being in. their ice held. against the ifrit flames, they shattered like chumps. which suggests crazy high temps, at least much, much more than surpassing volcanic heat.

Plasma guns do indeed have the power of a small star to them. Which is a bit vague, but if what NemeBro said is true (I recently lost ALL of my books. 😬) Plasma weapons in 40k also convert what they strike into plasma, which gives a bit of scale to the sort of thing that wounded Old One Eye.

orks with crude and jagged choppas are getting through that armor no problem. i dont see why dantes sword couldnt. and didnt you say they could also survive exterminatus just be hunkering down and letting it wash over them?

Also, dem Orks give not one ****, WAAAAGH!

i dont see why dantes sword couldnt.

and thats OOE. whos regens rates make it the deadpool of carnifexes.

and ive already heard and expressed my opinions about the wraithbone towers. strength is one thing. but the physics of a 15 foot tall creature toppling a tower that (judging by the images) would be drawfing modern sky scrapers, tells me the fluff isnt specific in size of the towers.

you're trying to compare supernaral powers vs technological and biological. dante is supernatural. demonic. how well does a demonically crafted sword, forged thousands of years in the past measure up in 40k? because thats what dantes sword is.

Being old =/= being comparable to a power weapon. Honestly, now that the Carnifex has regen, I don't think Dante can put it down at all.

if only his best bud kratos was here to help him

its still a valid reference to go from the games. and im going to ask again.. for i dont remember how many times. if you've ever played a dmc game. play the games. full of feats.

and las weaponry was discussed previously to have about the same effect as modern day rifles. thats why you get the joke.
"what do you call a las pistol with a laser sight? twin-linked." and in the gaunts ghosts series, theres many stories of troops surviving being shot by lasrifles. one of which got hit in the head. and survived. albeit with some memory loss. sounds alot like the equivalent to modern rifles, eh?

and ive seen the schematics of disected bolters. (i know its not the right word, but you get what i mean) and their form and structure isnt that different from the basic structure of modern day rifles. theres firing pins, which hit shells, that ignite explosives that launch a projectile, that penetrates a target, and explodes inside of it. everything ive seen says that bolters are of ancient design and are powerful simply because of the damage they deal via that physical, primitive effect, not because its amazingly high tech. technology like that exists now. just in a smaller calibur. its not an ungodly advanced weapon like a melta gun or heavy plasma gun. its a relic, based on ballistic technology.

and i dont doubt that plasma pistols fire out plasma itself. but converting what it hits to plasma? ehhhh... sort of unrealistic to physics. and having the power of a small star is more than a hand held device can contain. know what happens when even a small star explodes? little thing called a super nova. usually takes out everything in a solar system, and past that. so im going to stand by the heat of a small star, not power. and thats a pretty vague term that has no backing in explination behind it.

and i still have to direct you to my post about the heat of the surface of the sun, and lightning achieving that same temp. so dante stabbing a fex in the eye with lightning crackling through it.. is going to kill it. durability or not. and that plasma heat (which ive shown was less than the suns temp via SCIENCE!) melted OOE's face. into the bone. into its brain. which killed it. saying even OOE can be killed. he just gets better afterwards. (you died? '...well.. i got better!'😉 so if something with the heat of a star can melt its face off. lightning based weaponry can do the same. lightning crackling throughout dantes alastor sword, with every hit and stab. and ifrits flames, when they hit something dealt nearly triple damage than alastor. which tells me his hellfire would easily deal damage to it.

i can still see dante using his speed and demonic powers to deal a critical hit into the eyes, or mouth and driving his blade into its brain, frying it and bringing it down fairly quick. im pretty sure regen doesnt stop instant death.

and failing that, (which i dont think would fail, seeing as how the fex is one of the slowest battlefield creatures in 40k, proven by the codex, and games) i still see him being able to dodge venom cannon shots and unleash hellish barrage after hellish barrage fro the pandora. which just gets stronger and stronger the more he keeps it open. as is evident when you play the game. (and check out my past video of dantes moveset) so.. eventually.. even with regen, dante has the ability to pull an intsa-critical.

Originally posted by Matthias Fenris
that is actually in the ork codex. "THA RED ONES GO FASTAH!" painting a weapon red is also supposed to make it fire faster. i forget what blue means, though..

but it is documented that most ork weaponry cant be used effectively by humans because.. well.. it doesnt work in human hands. orks are halarious. read the codex. its filled with lawls.

Blue was lucky, IIRC. Granted, most of my Ork info is secondhand.

On plasma...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_Energy_Projectile

Personally, I think it's pretty cool.

I need to elaborate on some things claimed in this thread concerning 40k.

Lasguns are never, EVER stated to have a multi-megajoule energy output.

No, the term used, is 19 megathules. There exists no such unit of measurement, it's a meaningless term.

Secondly, Khornate Sorcerers do, in fact, exist. Khorne frowns upon the use of sorcery in combat, yes, but Daemons need sorcerers, how else do Daemons traverse the veil into the Materium? Sorcerers are necessary for a Bloodthirster and his minions to enter the Materium.

Also, Orks, not very strong? Orks are damn near as physically powerful as Marines, as stated in Fulgrim, and shown multiple times, they can pulp the head of a human with their fists, and carry huge weaponry with a single hand that would require a team of humans to operate. Lootas, for example, with their massive and powerful Deffguns. Not only is the weapon huge, but it has incredible recoil.

And yes, Plasma Weaponry actually breaks down matter upon impact, and converts it to Plasma. The heat is not stated, but it will at the very least incapacitate anything short of particularly large and powerful Orks or Tyranids, or your basic Necron (Who can regenerate). Or I guess a really badass Marine, as seen in Fallen Angels, when a Librarian takes having two plasma bolts fired by Cypher at his chest and survives.

That said...

The Carnifex survived a Cyclonic Torpedo Barrage? 😐