Voldemort vs. Gandalf the White

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. I am saying the tactic used by Gandalf only works against a magically inferior foe. The conclusion is this tactic won't work due to Voldemort's superior power so another tactic will have to come into play because this one doesn't work here.

That's a feat showing off his superior power over all the other wizards which is pretty impressive.

2.You are ignoring Gandalf's actions in the films. When he destroyed Saruman's staff he let saruman attack him prior to. So nowhere does Gandalf just immediately destroy a staff from the word go. Secondly, the shining lights didn't result in him defeating a single opponent. He mainly does so to drive someone back or buy his allies time.

I'm repeating this again, because I feel it was swamped by other posts:

Basically, it justifies my argument for Operation: Gandalf Victory

Hear me out:

Gandalf, as ordered by the Valar, is not to be able to combat Sauron or other evils with power, but rather by other means (such as rallying the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth). Hence, in most fights, he relies on his physical abilities with the sword and staff. Yet, against "alpha" opponents, he has to resort to his inner Istari powers to successfully engage them.

Gandalf the Grey: Normal Version- Against Goblins; Cave-troll * Fights with sword and staff (Battle in the Chamber of Mazarbul)

Istari Version- Against Saruman; Durin's Bane * Telekinesis (against Saruman) ; Shield (against Balrog) ; Blast (destroy the Bridge of Khazad-Dum)

Gandalf the White:

Normal Version- Against Uruk-Hai; Orcs; Trolls * Fights with sword and staff (Battle of the Hornburg; Battle of the Pelennor Fields; Battle of the Morannon)

Istari Version- Against Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli; Horde of Uruk-Hai; Saruman; Nazgul; Witch-King of Angmar * Blinding Light (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest; Rohirrim Cavalry charge in Battle of the Hornburg; Fall of Osgiliath) ; Shield (Confrontation with Saruman) ; Pyrokinesis (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest) ; Blast (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest; Confrontation with Saruman)

It's evident that because of these vast apparent differences in power and skill that we have to distinguish Gandalf into two categories, of which we can determine his in-character tendencies.

For Gandalf the White Istari version, we see that he is defensive-minded. When Aragorn and company attack him in the Fangorn Forest, he defends (envelops himself in Blinding Light; shatters/burn opponent's weaponry). When Saruman unleashes a large fireball at him, he defends (with his Shield), and then uses Blast to obliterate his opponent's staff. When the Witch-King of Angmar faces him in Minas Tirith, you see Gandalf defending with his staff (you hear a magical sound- likely that of his invisible Shield being invoked).

Against, Voldemort, an "alpha" opponent, we must look at the Istari version of Gandalf the White. As you can see, the 'story'/summary explanation of how this battle would occur is very much in agreement with in-character tendencies.

Kortos, every pro-Voldermort argument has been crushed over and over; they know this. Their pride won't let them concede like men though.

It's been like this since I posted(3rd post in).

Well said.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Gandalfs shield isn't made out of wood. It is made out of magical energy, which as I have pointed out to you, is simply ineffective at blocking the Killing Curse.

Actually, the all-purpose Shield is both a physical and magical barrier.

Against the Balrog, there was a physical contact between the Shield and the Balrog's aflame blade.

Since Avada Kedavra can be blocked by physical barriers, Gandalf is safe from the Killing Curse.

And according to HP Wiki:

While the curse is noted to be unblockable, in Part 2 of the final film Harry is seen blocking it many times from Voldemort, Ginny blocking it from Bellatrix, and Bellatrix blocking it from Molly Weasley twice despite it being unblockable with a Shield Charm.

If you are unconvinced, I could just find clips from the movies demonstrating this.

Ergo, magical or physical, Gandalf's Shield will stop the Killing Curse.

Originally posted by Robtard
Kortos, every pro-Voldermort argument has been crushed over and over; they know this. Their pride won't let them concede like men though.

It's been like this since I posted(3rd post in). They have nothing; they know it.

Well, now I can see why DDM wasn't sure if you were being 4 serius.

Trolololol.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well, now I can see why DDM wasn't sure if you were being 4 serius.

Trolololol.

Don't mock my crushing in this thread, I was the first to point out that Gandalf wins.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're implying that wood > Gandalf's shield, again. Wrong.

That was Gandalf the Grey, the White is a man-of-action.

Then why am I destroying all the pro-Voldermort fanboy arguments? Exactly. Patronus this!

No I'm not. What I am saying is that you're wrong to compare wood to Gandalfs shield, as one is a physical object and the other is made form magic that Gandalf formed out of thin air.

Like when he talked to Saruman for a good 5 minutes and let him shoot fireballs at him before doing anything? Or when he talked to the Witch King and just held his staff up while the Witch Kind powered up its attack? Or when he doesn't use his magic on any of the common foes he fights? Yes, hes a regular James Bond.

Yes. Unfortunately my pride just won't allow me to submit. So you should. 🙂

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Actually, the all-purpose Shield is both a physical and magical barrier.

Against the Balrog, there was a physical contact between the Shield and the Balrog's aflame blade.

Since Avada Kedavra can be blocked by physical barriers, Gandalf is safe from the Killing Curse.

And according to HP Wiki:

While the curse is noted to be unblockable, in Part 2 of the final film Harry is seen blocking it many times from Voldemort, Ginny blocking it from Bellatrix, and Bellatrix blocking it from Molly Weasley twice despite it being unblockable with a Shield Charm.

If you are unconvinced, I could just find clips from the movies demonstrating this.

Ergo, magical or physical, Gandalf's Shield will stop the Killing Curse.

Something being magical does not stop it from interacting with the physical world. The Death Spell is composed of magic and yet interacts with physical objects. Almost all spells do. As do shield spells. Look at the last movie where the Hogwarts shields clearly affect physical matter. Would you suggest therefore that its also physical in nature? No, because its made of frickin magic.

Physical contact? Between the magical shield Gandalf conjured from thin air and the magical sword the Balrog conjured from thin air? Yeeeeeah..... no.

Yes, I'd need to see this in action. Because it is complete bullshit and even I don't think the film makers are that pants on head retarded. Perhaps all this occurs after Harry bestows the Luuuuurve Protection upon them.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Something being magical does not stop it from interacting with the physical world. The Death Spell is composed of magic and yet interacts with physical objects. Almost all spells do. As do shield spells. Look at the last movie where the Hogwarts shields clearly affect physical matter. Would you suggest therefore that its also physical in nature? No, because its made of frickin magic.

Physical contact? Between the magical shield Gandalf conjured from thin air and the magical sword the Balrog conjured from thin air? Yeeeeeah..... no.

Yes, I'd need to see this in action. Because it is complete bullshit and even I don't think the film makers are that pants on head retarded. Perhaps all this occurs after Harry bestows the Luuuuurve Protection upon them.

Watch the clip again. It's quite visible that there is a physical collision. And besides, didn't you just say "something being magical does not stop it from interacting in the physical world":

Hmm, well let's look at Bellatrix vs. Molly:

B v. M

I can see what the Wiki was saying...from 0:24 to 0:27, you see Bella blocking spells that awfully appear to be Avada Kedavra-like.

But we can turn to more clips to see if this in fact true.

We all know at the very least that Molly was going for the kill there.

Originally posted by Robtard
Superior everything. Even Ian's acting is better than Ralph's.

Yes, you are. You continually try and use Gandalf's the Grey in here, when it's the White. This is your only defensive.

Gandalf the white has his staff broken by the Witch King. Gandalf the white sits there and holds his staff up which is broken. Not very impressive considering what later defeats the Witch King and what previously bested him on film either.

Originally posted by Korto Vos

Gandalf, as ordered by the Valar, is not to be able to combat Sauron or other evils with power, but rather by other means (such as rallying the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth). Hence, in most fights, he relies on his physical abilities with the sword and staff. Yet, against "alpha" opponents, he has to resort to his inner Istari powers to successfully engage them.

Gandalf the Grey:

Normal Version- Against Goblins; Cave-troll

* Fights with sword and staff (Battle in the Chamber of Mazarbul)

Istari Version- Against Saruman; Durin's Bane

* Telekinesis (against Saruman) ; Shield (against Balrog) ; Blast (destroy the Bridge of Khazad-Dum)

Gandalf the White:

Normal Version- Against Uruk-Hai; Orcs; Trolls

* Fights with sword and staff (Battle of the Hornburg; Battle of the Pelennor Fields; Battle of the Morannon)

Istari Version- Against Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli; Horde of Uruk-Hai; Saruman; Nazgul; Witch-King of Angmar

* Blinding Light (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest; Rohirrim Cavalry charge in Battle of the Hornburg; Fall of Osgiliath) ; Shield (Confrontation with Saruman) ; Pyrokinesis (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest) ; Blast (Rendezvous in the Fangorn Forest; Confrontation with Saruman)

It's evident that because of these vast apparent differences in power and skill that we have to distinguish Gandalf into two categories, of which we can determine his in-character tendencies.

For Gandalf the White Istari version, we see that he is defensive-minded.

When Aragorn and company attack him in the Fangorn Forest, he defends (envelops himself in Blinding Light; shatters/burn opponent's weaponry). When Saruman unleashes a large fireball at him, he defends (with his Shield), and then uses Blast to obliterate his opponent's staff. When the Witch-King of Angmar faces him in Minas Tirith, you see Gandalf defending with his staff (you hear a magical sound- likely that of his invisible Shield being invoked).

Against, Voldemort, an "alpha" opponent, we must look at the Istari version of Gandalf the White.

As you can see, the 'story'/summary explanation of how this battle would occur is very much in agreement with in-character tendencies.

So if we take only his behaviors from his battles with alpha males he is still allowing Voldemort the first attack. This doesn't bode well for him. Voldemort will quickly follow up with another attack and his power can get through his shields. I mean the Witch King did so (presumably) and wasn't some all powerful being.

Voldemort's duel against Dumbledore is a helluva lot more impressive than Gandalf's duel against Saruman the first go round. It's really the only prolonged wizard fight from the lotr movies.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
It's common courtesy, nothing more.

Nah. Class act. Very few people have the class to do that.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
There was no need for you to have made your arguments "strong" with harsh language or insults; you, in fact, made it weaker in my eyes.

No insults. Your arguments are full of blind fanboyism, are quite overt, and unapologetic.

If someone were to point out that Robtard is a flaming McClane fanboy...that's obvious.

If someone were to point out that I am perpetually swinging from the nuts of John Preston...that's obvious.

We each have our "favs". There's nothing wong with having rabid fanboyism because we are all rabid fanboys of SOMETHING.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Nah. Class act. Very few people have the class to do that.

All right, thank you for the compliment.

No insults. Your arguments are full of blind fanboyism, are quite overt, and unapologetic.

If someone were to point out that Robtard is a flaming McClane fanboy...that's obvious.

If someone were to point out that I am perpetually swinging from the nuts of John Preston...that's obvious.

We each have our "favs". There's nothing wong with having rabid fanboyism because we are all rabid fanboys of SOMETHING.

If you mean "blind fanboyism" in that I am actually trying to demonstrate logical reasons as to why Gandalf the White > Voldemort, then sure, I am guilty of that. If you mean "blind fanboyism" in that I am actually trying to debate your arguments and not concoct "lies," then sure, I am guilty of that as well.

I love Lord of the Rings to the death. I love it much more than Star Wars and Harry Potter (both of which I really like). But even I would not be mad enough to say Aragorn > Yoda. Or Boromir > Ron.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
If you mean "blind fanboyism" in that I am actually trying to demonstrate logical reasons as to why Gandalf the White > Voldemort, then sure, I am guilty of that. If you mean "blind fanboyism" in that I am actually trying to debate your arguments and not concoct "lies," then sure, I am guilty of that as well.

I love Lord of the Rings to the death. I love it much more than Star Wars and Harry Potter (both of which I really like). But even I would not be mad enough to say Aragorn > Yoda. Or Boromir > Ron.

Sort of. More like

Blind, as in...you possess the ability to see otherwise because you are staring in the face of a large list of facts that contradict your position.

I say blind as an indirect compliment because you're obviously smarter than that.

My point with the other stuff is we pretty much all are guilty of the same thing depending on our favs.

I will not apologize for what I'm a fanboy of, either. 😄

Originally posted by quanchi112
Why do you insist on bringing up aspects of the movie which don't matter. I also don't see Ian's performance as being as great as Fiennes' portrayal either not that it matters in the end.

Gandalf the white has his staff broken by the Witch King. Gandalf the white sits there and holds his staff up which is broken. Not very impressive considering what later defeats the Witch King and what previously bested him on film either.

LoL, what a troll, accusing me of the actions you're doing. Whateva, man.

Witch King is an uberly powerful servant of Sauron, his second in command. There's no shame in Gandalf losing a minor scrap to him.

Gandalf breaks Voldermort's wand easier than the Witch King broke Gandalf's stave and far easier than Gandalf broke Saurumon's stave.

In short since you have trouble following most things it's: Witch King > Gandalf(white) > Saurumon > Voldermort, when it comes to magical-wood breaking powers.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Watch the clip again. It's quite visible that there is a physical collision. And besides, didn't you just say "something being magical does not stop it from interacting in the physical world":

Hmm, well let's look at Bellatrix vs. Molly:

B v. M

I can see what the Wiki was saying...from 0:24 to 0:27, you see Bella blocking spells that awfully appear to be Avada Kedavra-like.

But we can turn to more clips to see if this in fact true.

We all know at the very least that Molly was going for the kill there.

Magic sword hits magic shield. Huzzah. Yeah, I said that. Your point being?

I saw nothing death spell-like.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Sort of. More like

Blind, as in...you possess the ability to see otherwise because you are staring in the face of a large list of facts that contradict your position.

I say blind as an indirect compliment because you're obviously smarter than that.

My point with the other stuff is we pretty much all are guilty of the same thing depending on our favs.

I will not apologize for what I'm a fanboy of, either. 😄

I've provided an accurate in-line-with-character version of what the duel between these two would be like, using Gandalf's abilities from the movies, while still having Voldemort acting dynamically. I've proven Gandalf the White's in-character response to "alpha" opponents. Voldy, we know, resorts to Avada Kedavra as his trademark opener and finisher. I'm more than well aware that Voldemort is extremely powerful and versatile, but I haven't seen anything that proves my interpretation wrong. I believe the Shield will hold, and Gandalf will have the seconds he needs to break/burn Voldemort's wand.

You shouldn't try to manufacture the circumstances of a fight detailed in a thread {of which you are not the creator} in order to give your favored combatant an edge.

Originally posted by Robtard
LoL, what a troll, accusing me of the actions you're doing. Whateva, man.

Witch King is an uberly powerful servant of Sauron, his second in command. There's no shame in Gandalf losing a minor scrap to him.

Gandalf breaks Voldermort's wand easier than the Witch King broke Gandalf's stave and far easier than Gandalf broke Saurumon's stave.

In short since you have trouble following most things it's: Witch King > Gandalf(white) > Saurumon > Voldermort, when it comes to magical-wood breaking powers.

Witch King is his second in command but also went down against Aragorn armed with a sword and a torch. The guy also lost albeit cheapshot from a pesky Hobbit to a woman. That's not very impressive is all I am saying. Gandalf looked pretty inferior to a guy who has been bested by a long lived human. Just saying.

It isn't in character for Gandalf to even attack first. Based off korto's suggested Gandalf behaviors he sits back and tries to counter which was pretty stupid against the Witch King especially.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Magic sword hits magic shield. Huzzah. Yeah, I said that. Your point being?

I saw nothing death spell-like.

It's a physical collision, that's my point. The Balrog is physically holding his weapon, and the physical contact between the shield and the sword caused the obliteration of the blade into molten fragments that are physically falling away (not dissipating into the air).

Do you understand my physical point? LOL 😉

You didn't see the iconic verdant beams indicative of the Killing Curse coming from Molly's wand, especially knowing that she wanted to kill Bellatrix?

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
You shouldn't try to manufacture the circumstances of a fight detailed in a thread {of which you are not the creator} in order to give your favored combatant an edge.

Nope, no manufacturing.

Gandalf and Voldemort stand a duelists' distance apart in a Hogwarts hallway.

3...2...1...FIGHT! My interpretation (in-line-with-character, having both opponents dynamically interacting, & using proper movie feats)!