Voldemort vs. Gandalf the White

Originally posted by Robtard
I'm sorry, where there attempts in Harry Potter to magically break a wand?

You're selectively deciding now to use movie-feats to the most ridiculous extremes. So tell me, can Gandalf only heat up a long sword, since that's all he did; would a dagger be out of the realm of his ability?

If you answer yes, then apply those same clownshow rules to Voldermort's powers. He can only death-spell HP wizards, that's all he's done, so that's it.

I'd say blasting a wand out of someone's hand is harmful to a wand. 🙂

And, to the rest of your whining: it's been addressed already. Are you even trying at this point?

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'd say blasting a wand out of someone's hand is harmful to a wand. 🙂

And, to the rest of your whining: it's been addressed already. Are you even trying at this point?

So you're guessing, that spell could just be a form of TK, not trying to actively destroy the wand, just knock it out of someone's grasp.

No, you dodged. You're selectively choosing to limit Gandalf to the most extreme of screen-feats while not doing the same for Voldermort.

I'll ask again, would heating up a dagger be beyond Gandalf's powers since we only see him heat-up a sword?

Originally posted by Robtard
What you said didn't counter what I said, you dodged and sputtered nonsense while ignoring facts.

Facts: A torch to Voldermort's robes would ignite him just the same and he'd likely die or be ****ed up from being burned. The Witch King was neither, it just made him flee.

Witchking > Voldermort, he need only scream and Voldermort's wand explodes and he pisses himself in fear. Stop being a dodgy asshat and stop trying to derail the thread with the Witch King, he's not in the fight, lucky for Voldermort.

These threads aren't about durability or who can survive torches they are about who wins due to formidability.

Voldemort>>Witch King>>Gandalf.

Gandalf in character would probably just stand there and wait for Voldemort's first attack like he did against Saruman and the Witch King only this time he dies.

Voldemort stomps. He would defeat both Gandalf and the Witch King at the same time.

Originally posted by Robtard
So you're guessing, that spell could just be a form of TK, not trying to actively destroy the wand, just knock it out of someone's grasp.

That's not a guess: it's an actual spell. 😐

Originally posted by Robtard
No, you dodged. You're selectively choosing to limit Gandalf to the most extreme of screen-feats while not doing the same for Voldermort.

No, you ignored the post and pretended that I dodged.

And that's hardly an extreme screen feat. I'd say the channeling of the lightning was his most extreme.

And it pales in comparison to pretty much any average thing Voldy does. 😐

Originally posted by Robtard
I'll ask again, would heating up a dagger be beyond Gandalf's powers since we only see him heat-up a sword?

This is a a logical fallacy on your part.

You first have to properly represent my argument with another question before you can start "explaining" why my perspective is wrong.

Until you stop using a lame strawman, there's not point in entertaining these lines of questioning.

It's been a while since you got a dose of the dadudemon, hasn't it? You should have remembered because I bring the rape.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Voldemort stomps. He would defeat both Gandalf and the Witch King at the same time.

Since he can apparate, cast spells in smoke form, can do fiendfyre, has massive TK...then he could take on every last character from LotR, all at once.

Yes, tens to hundreds of thousands of characters, all at once.

Voldemort still solos the entirety of the LotR universe (movie versions, of course).

How are they supposed to harm a cloud of smoke that is casting fiendfyre? How are they supposed to kill Voldemort when they literally cannot kill him (horcruxes)?

But, keep in mind, the LotR supporters are being objective about this. dur

Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't ignore anything I said someone as stupid as Aragorn and waving around a sword and a torch would get him killed against Voldmort but the tactics defeated the Witch King.

These threads aren't about durability or who can survive torches they are about who wins due to formidability.

Voldemort>>Witch King>>Gandalf.

Gandalf in character would probably just stand there and wait for Voldemort's first attack like he did against Saruman and the Witch King only this time he dies.

Voldemort stomps. He would defeat both Gandalf and the Witch King at the same time.

Yeah, you're the one trying to downplay the Witch King in some attempt to downplay Gandalf while ignoring that if Voldermort were attacked the same way with a torch he'd burn up, scream and likely die. Not me.

Gandalf won already because his magic is more powerful. Condolences.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's not a guess: it's an actual spell. 😐

No, you ignored the post and pretended that I dodged.

And that's hardly an extreme screen feat. I'd say the channeling of the lightning was his most extreme.

And it pales in comparison to pretty much any average thing Voldy does. 😐

This is a a logical fallacy on your part.

You first have to properly represent my argument with another question before you can start "explaining" why my perspective is wrong.

Until you stop using a lame strawman, there's not point in entertaining these lines of questioning.

It's been a while since you got a dose of the dadudemon, hasn't it? You should have remembered because I bring the rape.

Which spell? Name it.

Incorrect and another dodge. Very telling and expected, I know your games all to well.

I'm using a strawman? LoL. You're the one saying "Gandalf can only destroy a stave because that's all he's done", so I'm not strawmaning, as you said it.

Proof:

Originally posted by dadudemon
The staff busting feat only applies to just that: staffs of other wizards.

Nothing else.

I'll ask again, this will be the third time as you've dodged it twice:

-Would heating up a dagger be beyond Gandalf's powers since we only see him heat-up a sword?

Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, you're the one trying to downplay the Witch King in some attempt to downplay Gandalf while ignoring that if Voldermort were attacked the same way with a torch he'd burn up, scream and likely die. Not me.

Gandalf won already because his magic is more powerful. Condolences.

Gandalf didn't win against someone like the Witch King who has been defeated by a random torch. Voldemort beats Gandalf and does so quickly. Saying something without at least supporting it doesn't make it true. Debating 101.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Vopldemort wouldn't burn up if a torch touched him he'd easily put it out like he did when the basilisk's fire was redirected back at him. Try to make sense and form a coherent thought.

Gandalf didn't win against someone like the Witch King who has been defeated by a random torch. Voldemort beats Gandalf and does so quickly. Saying something without at least supporting it doesn't make it true. Debating 101.

Incorrect, if Voldermort was struck with a torch as the Witch King was, his robes would ignite, he'd scream and burn. Stop dancing with irrelevant points.

Stop trying to downplay Gandalf with these silly "the Witch King!!111!!!" rants, he's not in this fight. If he was, his scream would render Voldermort useless, it'd break his wand and Voldermort would be left crying in a corner. This is a fact you won't accept.

Gandalf destroys Voldermort's wand just as easily, he's shown doing greater.

Originally posted by Robtard
Incorrect, if Voldermort was struck with a torch as the Witch King was, his robes would ignite, he'd scream and burn. Stop dancing with irrelevant points.

Stop trying to downplay Gandalf with these silly "the Witch King!!111!!!" rants, he's not in this fight. If he was, his scream would render Voldermort useless, it'd break his wand and Voldermort would be left crying in a corner. This is a fact you won't accept.

Gandalf destroys Voldermort's wand just as easily, he's shown doing greater.

Did you see the time it took him after he created the fire sword to do so. The avada kedvara already takes him out. I argue in character unlike yourself.

Gandalf allows an attack and has had his staff broken unlike Voldemort. Voldemort is too fast for these slow wizards from the lotr.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, we've seen a mere gesture do away with fire immediately far greater than a pesky torch. You keep repeating yourself in rain man fashion.

Did you see the time it took him after he created the fire sword to do so. The avada kedvara already takes him out. I argue in character unlike yourself.

Gandalf allows an attack and has had his staff broken unlike Voldemort. Voldemort is too fast for these slow wizards from the lotr.

Apples to oranges comparisons again, good job. The Witch King was surprised, obviously if he had blocked he wouldn't have burned. You're ignoring that if Voldermort were surprised/hit just the same with a torch, he'd be worse off.

LoL, downplaying again just the one you need to lose will ignoring the CIS of your favorite. Poor tactics.

In a fight like this, Gandalf effortlessly breaks Voldermort's wand with a word. Same with the Witch King, except a scream.

Originally posted by Robtard
Apples to oranges comparisons again. The Witch King was surprised, obviously if he had blocked he wouldn't have burned. You're ignoring that if Voldermort were surprised/hit just the same with a torch, he'd be worse off.

LoL, downplaying again just the one you need to lose will ignoring the CIS of your favorite. Poor tactics.

In a fight like this, Gandalf effortlessly breaks Voldermort's wand with a word. Same with the Witch King, except a scream.

Watch the movies, k.

Originally posted by dadudemon
It is not.

We've seen Voldemort do quite a diverse amount of things at the beginnings of fights.

From death spells, to TK, to PK, to turning into a cloud of smoke.

o Rly? Well let us see what evidence you brought forward...

And Gandalf has the reflexes to put his staff up and block that.

We've moved on beyond that, imo.

However, since Voldemort can read minds of others, what makes you think that will be his first move?

Gandalf has no defense against Voldemorts magical mind reading abilities. He has 0 training in occlumency.

And Harry Potter is such a master in Occlumency? Potter is known to completely suck at Occlumency, and yet he seems to not have any difficulty blocking the spells of Voldemort (the master of Legilimency). And besides, Gandalf has incredible willpower; strong willpower is enough to block Legilimency. Based on the movie fight scenes, it seems Occulumency wasn't even happening in combat.

To top it off, Voldemort doesn't even need his wand to do lots of the TK magic that he pulls off.

Here's Voldemort throwing Harry Potter's wand down (at the very beginning) with his non-wanded hand in an instant: faster than Harry Potter can "trick" turn around and hit Voldemort with something.

YouTube video

No avada kedavra incanted there against Dumbledore, either, BTW.
🙂

So that's 0 for 2 on your ploy about death spells.

[/

😆 You have no idea how badly I owned Quanchi when he kept bringing this up during the Battlezone:

Originally posted by KV
Harry is turning, clearly not aiming for a defenseless Bellatrix, with his wand arm lifting up. Of course Voldemort knows Harry is going to try to hit him with a spell. Not only was Voldemort prepared, but frankly, in my opinion, that wasn't an example of a quick reaction. Harry was startled that Voldemort was behind him, and he didn't even respond rapidly. Regular people have the reflexes to replicate that motion.

And 😆 are you talking about the first spell against Dumbledore? LOL, that was Avada Kedavra.

Notice that Voldemort can cast magic WHILE the wands are interlocked with each other? He has lightning-kinetics, too...just like Gandalf...except Voldy can conjure up lightning withOUT the help from the sky...he makes it on his own. So Voldy is superior in even lightning TK. 😄

He also uses a massive amount of what I would like to call "shadow TK" to bust up the entire room...withOUT using his wand at around 1:40.

What are you talking about? He was completely preoccupied firing his Avada Kedavra stream at Dumbledore.

He's HOLDING his wand at 1:40, and using its power to allow him to collect and throw that "shadow magic." There's nothing suggesting he would be able to replicate such a feat without his wand, seeing how wizards/witches can only perform very basic spells wandlessly. And clearly, what he did was NOT basic.

He then, without looking, manipulates every last one of those shards to a specific point. This type of TK acuity is hard to beat in any movie, much less Harry Potter.

Umm okay, what's your point? He holds up his wand, causing the shards to rise into the air.

Yoda & Sidious's TK > > > Voldemort's TK

Here's Voldemort using Crucio as his first spell at 1:50.

YouTube video

NO traveling spell in his duel against an alpha type of character. It's an instant spell. 🙂

So you're 0 for 3, at this point.

Another Quanchi failure 😆

Originally posted by KV
Harry Potter put zero resistance to Voldemort's "bow" attack. He was in a state of shock and absolutely frightened.

And loosening a sickle and causing Harry to slightly bend his back are not impressive examples of telekinesis.

I'll add that this was again PRIOR to the actual duel and again NOT a combat situation. Voldemort was trying to get Harry to fight him, and it wasn't until later when Harry emerges from his cover and says, "Fine. Have it your way," do they actually start dueling. And guess what spell Voldemort opens with? You guessed it...Avada Kedavra!

You've provided two unimpressive showings that are not combat situations. And you've provided one showing that has Voldemort actually opening with Avada Kedavra.

Notice Voldemort's instant reactions and ability to disspell (pun 1000000% fully intended) Harry's disarming spell at 2:07. That's faster than Gandalf's reaction to the fireball spell, by the way. 😉

Oh let's see, another unimpressive showing of Voldemort abusing Harry when Potter is in a compromised position.

You know what's faster than this and unable to be blocked by Voldy?

Gandalf's instant pyrokinesis, which spontaneously occurs without any incantation or movement by Gandalf. This translates to zero defense from Voldemort.

And considering how unfazed Gandalf (he looked completely unimpressed) was by the fireball spell, it's obvious he was more than ready for it even in that short amount of time. Gandalf has fought more epic battles than Voldemort, and many of those physically with sword and staff- his reflexes are easily as good, if not better, as Voldemort's.

There's also a problem of Voldemort having Lily Potter's protection spell. 🙂

Will you finally concede that Gandalf stands no change, never stood a chance, and will never stand a chance? (EVAR!)

I don't know why you are laughing, when you still haven't proven anything countering my interpretation.

Originally posted by dadudemon
By your own admission (implicitly), it can happen only to one of weaker magical ability.

You've also directly admitted that Voldy is more powerful than Gandalf.

LOL?

The only instance we see magic being able to damage a wand in HP is when you are not the wand owner of the Elder Wand and use it.

Umm...

Harry breaks the Elder Wand

Watch from 1:29. Harry, using his bare hands, and without much force, snaps in half the most powerful wand. Ergo, the Elder Wand can be damaged/destroyed physically, such as by shattering it or by burning it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh, come now, don't be so dramatic. I gave a reason for why this is likely the case: 'Especially considering that Gandalf was still able to use magic without his staff when he fought the Balrog and channelled the lightning into his sword, but by shattering Sarumans staff he took away his ability to use magic.' I'm not saying that Harry Potter magic is different to LotR magic, I'm just saying that Gandalf didn't just 'splode his staff, he kicked him out of the order.

Gideon has already demolished your 'Gandalf is a demi-god' argument. Do you want another taste of the sweet anal sex he gave you last time? I'm sure he would comply.

Oh well, if you say so I guess. I mean, this is your thread.

-------------------

No it isn't. You can't block the death spell. And a wiki is not proof. Although 'C'mon' was truly a moving argument. You almost got me there.

Unless this was after Harry gave everyone Loves Protection or something. But even then would it extend to himself?

Obviously he kicked Saruman out of the order. I was arguing this myself against Quanchi in the Balrog thread. I still don't get how this reasoning prevents Gandalf from shattering Voldemort's wand, especially when Object Shattering is an actual ability in Lord of the Rings. The Witch King wasn't kicking Gandalf out of any order, yet he manages to break through the Istari's Shield and shatter Gandalf's staff. Gandalf wasn't kicking Gimli or Legolas out of anything when he shatters their projectiles in TTT.

Quit trolling; Gideon didn't "demolish" anything. It takes an idiot to not realize Gandalf isn't divine or clearly on a higher level than the rest of the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth.

Your only argument is that because nobody says it, it's not Avada Kedavra. If you choose to ignore obvious contextual evidence on top of in-line color hues of the Killing Curse, then you're just in denial.

HP Wiki is an accurate source. Each article usually has several citations providing proof for the text.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Fail.

It is symbolic of Saruman being both weaker AND being kicked out of the order.

Duh.

It cannot happen to Voldemort because he is neither weaker nor part of the order.

The whole point of this thread is to determine who's "weaker." That's not a proper rebuttal, whatsoever. And seeing how Gandalf is a divine figure, and beyond man, that's even more reason why he would be able to shatter a piece of wood.

Object Shattering is an ability in Lord of the Rings. Gandalf shatters Fellowship projectiles in TTT and Witch King shatters Gandalf's staff. Nobody is being kicked out of any order there.

Gandalf can shatter Voldemort's wand. End of story.

The only two times a staff was shattered was by a more powerful magical LotR being against a weaker one.

Gandalf to Saruman. Witch King to Gandalf.

At no other point does it occur.

So what? Gandalf is stronger than Voldemort anyway 🙄

There's a vast list of reasons why shattering "stuff" would have been quite useful but it is very much limited ONLY TO STAFFS.

Answer Robtard's counterargument.

This is much different than TK or PK which obviously applies to anything.

Maia can still use magic after their staff is broken.

They can also reform their staffs as seen by Gandalf who has his staff at the end of RotK.

Voldemort also uses quite a bit of magic WITHOUT HIS WAND.

So your point has failed from the beginning.

You haven't proven anything. Regardless of any symbolism or not, Gandalf literally shatters Saruman's staff, and therefore it's an ability that he can perform in the context of this debate.

Otherwise, I'll just say Gandalf is a Maiar, and only Maiar (like the Balrog) or equivalent-level entities can hurt him; Voldemort is just a human and won't be able to touch the Istari. '

Perhaps you'll see the similarity in ludicrousness.

No, it is not. Multiple spells of Volde's are green.

In fact, it's hard to say that any spell of his is NOT green.

The exception would be the shield busting spell...but I do not remember if that was green or not...so I could be wrong.

Umm...Fiendfyre isn't greenish-blue. "Shadow magic" isn't greenish-blue.

-----------

EDIT: And you still haven't replied back to any of my older arguments. I guess I'll just consider those as concessions.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Aragorn was wildly swinging it and the Witch King wasn't alone. Voldemort wouldn't be ever hit but if he was he can easily gesture the fire away. Voldemort is flat out superior to any wizard from the lotr by a country mile in every regard.

Watch the movies, k.

This is so stupid. If Aragorn ambushed Voldemort and put a torch to his face, he would get burned alive and die.

Quit bringing in the Witch King and "a man with a torch." You're hurting your side.

And now, I have to study differential equations for my next exam tomorrow!

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Obviously he kicked Saruman out of the order. I was arguing this myself against Quanchi in the Balrog thread. I still don't get how this reasoning prevents Gandalf from shattering Voldemort's wand, especially when Object Shattering is an actual ability in Lord of the Rings. The Witch King wasn't kicking Gandalf out of any order, yet he manages to break through the Istari's Shield and shatter Gandalf's staff. Gandalf wasn't kicking Gimli or Legolas out of anything when he shatters their projectiles in TTT.

Quit trolling; Gideon didn't "demolish" anything. It takes an idiot to not realize Gandalf isn't divine or clearly on a higher level than the rest of the Free Peoples of Middle-Earth.

Your only argument is that because nobody says it, it's not Avada Kedavra. If you choose to ignore obvious contextual evidence on top of in-line color hues of the Killing Curse, then you're just in denial.

HP Wiki is an accurate source. Each article usually has several citations providing proof for the text.

Because Voldemort is not an Istari and Gandalf can't kick him out of wizard-school.

Also, Gandalf has his staff back at the end:

YouTube video

So either what the Witch King did was not canon, or not the same thing Gandalf did to Saruman.

Did he 'shatter' their weapons? He just blocked them with his staff.

Theres no evidence that he's divine, and no shit he's above other people, hes a goddamn Wizard! That doesn't make him a demi-god, it makes him a wizard. Also Gideon reamed you good.

And your argument is 'its green'. Forgive me but the spells 'being green' is not enough evidence to superceed the fact that the spells were being blocked, which is contrary to the fact that the killing curse cannot be blocked. Ergo, they were not death spells. Come back when you actually have soem real proof.

No wiki is an accurate source. If it has proof in the form of citatins then use the proof. Not the wiki page that anyone can edit.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
This is so stupid. If Aragorn ambushed Voldemort and put a torch to his face, he would get burned alive and die.

Quit bringing in the Witch King and "a man with a torch." You're hurting your side.

Yes, but Aragorn did not ambush the Nazgul and immediately burn all of them at once. He held all 9 of them off with a sword and a torch, repeatedly swinging the torch around to which they all visibly recoil from.

The Nazgul hate fire. Put Voldmort (though really he should have 8 death eaters to back him up if we're being fair) in that position and he would have owned Aragon in half a second.