Originally posted by quanchi112
Trolling my ass. You're just making things up which you seem to do often when arguing against a character. Voldemort clearly says Avada Kedavra against Harry when he's using it against him. The first scene is just a blast killing the bird. They do cause harm and can be fatal ya know.
😐
You ask for an example of a wordless killing curse. KV posts an example which fits all the criteria but you say it's not the killing curse because it's silent. What the hell?
Originally posted by Korto VosYou claiming an energy blast is the killing curse when the movies have bent over backwards showing us it needs to be spoken isn't proof. Why on earth would Voldemort speak it anyways if he didn't need to ? It makes no sense.
[B] sighRobtard gave you some excellent advice. Go follow it! [/B]
Originally posted by ares834A blast isn't a killing curse it's just an offensive attack. The killing curse is even spoken in Lucien's house when he kills the muggle teacher. You can hear him say it as he kills her. A blast can kill a bird without it being an avada kedavra. Seriously.
😐You ask for an example of a wordless killing curse. KV posts an example which fits all the criteria but you say it's not the killing curse because it's silent. What the hell?
Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
Pace yourselfves. If you two keep this up, you'll burn out quick.
Hmm?
I don't understand Quanchi. You are asking me to provide you proof of wordless Killing Curse, and yet when I have done so, you then reverse and say because it's wordless, it could just be a blast.
Wtf?
Originally posted by ares834We don't get to see the bird up close and secondly we aren't privy to the deatheater's dialog while in the air with everything else going on. You have to even closely pay attention to Voldemort saying it when he kills the muggle teacher. The movies bent over backwards to show us you need to speak these words to cast the spell.
Oh yeah it's just that other spell that is green and kills the target without any noticeable damage... Silly me.
Is it your position that Harry reflected the killing curse back onto Voldemort in the final battle scene after the snake died ?
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Hmm?I don't understand Quanchi. You are asking me to provide you proof of wordless Killing Curse, and yet when I have done so, you then reverse and say because it's wordless, it could just be a blast.
Wtf?
Originally posted by quanchi112There. Logically think about it. Why ever speak the words if they aren't really needed ?
We don't get to see the bird up close and secondly we aren't privy to the deatheater's dialog while in the air with everything else going on. You have to even closely pay attention to Voldemort saying it when he kills the muggle teacher. The movies bent over backwards to show us you need to speak these words to cast the spell.Is it your position that Harry reflected the killing curse back onto Voldemort in the final battle scene after the snake died ?
Originally posted by quanchi112
There. Logically think about it. Why ever speak the words if they aren't really needed ?
Beats me..why do all the wizards/witches say "Expecto Patronum" when Lupin is able to do it wordlessly?
Quit posing idiotic questions. You got your question answered. Perhaps you thought you wouldn't get an actual answer from me, and thought you won out, but you didn't.
Originally posted by Korto VosThat's not the killing curse.
Beats me..why do all the wizards/witches say "Expecto Patronum" when Lupin is able to do it wordlessly?Quit posing idiotic questions. You got your question answered. Perhaps you thought you wouldn't get an actual answer from me, and thought you won out, but you didn't.
Also this.
No, the killing curse is not the only spell that produces a flash of green light. If you guys remember the 2nd book CoS, when Lockhart casted obliviate and it backfired it was described as a flash of green light as well.
Saying it's the killing curse just because it's green doesn't make it the killing curse. Voldemort uses the words every time he does so.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Gandalf has amazing willpower. He fought a Balrog at terminal velocity in free-fall, survived splashdown, battled the demon from the underground ocean all the way up the Endless Stair, and then concluded with 36 hours of non-stop fighting against Durin's Bane on Zirakzigil's peak. He never at once sought or desired the Ring of Power, even though the One Ring tempted him and probably continued to tempt him (as it did with the others, but especially him because he was almost as powerful as Sauron himself) during his time with the Fellowship.
yawn
He still does not know the magic required to counter it...which also requires willpower.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
And where is your evidence that Voldemort is doing Occlumency on Potter? I don't recall any mind invasions by Voldy [B]during battle. [/B]
Where is your evidence that he cannot use it during battle?
But, if you must, he invaded Potters mind against Dumbledore.
He went invisible (oh no! where did he go!) and invaded Potter's mind.
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEEHr kasdjf;lk asdfkajsd;fl
Uber pwnage.
So, wait, did you just fall into another trap?
I didn't set that one up because I didn't think you'd actually ask that one.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Quit trying to dodge the argument by just throwing down random logical fallacies when you think it's convenient. Basically, you concede that it wasn't a combat situation.
Incorrect, and I call you on it, later, in the most direct pwnage fashion. Why did you ignore it? Sucks being wrong, doesn't it? 😄
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Quit making stuff up. That was Avada Kedavra.Besides Harry, after being hit by Avada Kedavra, had a "lightning" scar? 😉
Go ahead, don't entertain it. You've been proven wrong.
"As fact, it is not. It wasn't spoken. He embued it with lightning.
Seems it was something else.
This is also something that I will not entertain any longer: deal with it not be the killing curse."
Originally posted by Korto Vos
What are you talking about??? The sequence of scenes before Voldemort vs. Dumbledore, correct? Regardless, it was probably an unimpressive non-combat showing of Voldemort.
Try to keep up:
Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's Voldemort using Crucio as his first spell at 1:50.NO traveling spell in his duel against an alpha type of character. It's an instant spell. 🙂
So you're 0 for 3, at this point.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Gandalf is faster than Voldemort. And Voldemort has no defense against automatic wand combustion or explosion.
Already addressed both points:
Originally posted by dadudemon
Watch the clip again: it occured quite quickly. Not ony did he block the spell from Harry, he reversed it back on Harry. This all occured in a much smaller time span than the fireball from Saruman to Gandalf AND before Gandalf could negate the fireball into nothing.By feats, Voldemort is faster and more efficient with his magic reversal.
Deal with it. 🙂
And this:
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. I could easily script a fight that is both in line with Voldy and Gandalf, but makes Gandalf and 10,000 warriors look like nothing compared to Voldy: he casts fiendfyre and consumes all of them...like he did against Dumbledore. Voldemort's pyrokinetics are >>>>>>> Gandalf's by movie feats so Gandalf will not be controlling Voldy's fire anytime soon.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Sure, he enjoys employing TK. But majority of his combat/dueling appearances have him opening with Avada Kedavra (which he favors and easily does as much as his random TK feats); ergo, my interpretation hasn't been refuted.
So you admit that he enjoys TK as much as AK, yet maintain that he will open with AK when:
1. He resorts to TK as a "first option" quite often.
2. Has many instances of not using AK first in formost in battle situtions.
3. It actually does not matter that he will use AK as an opener because it's a silly line of reasoning for a loss, to begin with.
Just wanting to make it clear that you've directly admitted some sort of misconstrued bias against HP because you side with AK over TK yet admit equality.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
I'm sorry you had to waste all those minutes of your life typing these wrong statements.1. Voldemort vs. Harry in Little Hangleton graveyard. When both of them are ready to fight, and Harry is ready to stand-up and face Voldemort like a man in a proper duel, Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra.
2. Voldemort vs. Dumbledore in the Ministry of Magic Atrium. Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra. [This is key! Against the strongest wizard of all time, Voldemort opens with his trademark spell. He knows the danger Dumbledore poses, and he aims to end the fight by overpowering the Headmaster's spell with the Killing Curse that would have finished the duel if it connected. Likewise, against Gandalf, he won't hold back and will for go Avada Kedavra]
3. Voldemort vs Harry Potter P1 (when Harry runs away) - Voldemort opens with Incendio.
4. Voldemort vs Harry Potter P2 (inside Hogwarts)- Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra
5. Voldemort vs Harry Potter P3 (on the platforms) - Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra
6. Voldemort vs Harry Potter P4 (on the courtyard) - Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra
7. As you can see, the vast majority of time, Voldemort starts with the Killing Curse.
1. He opened with TK and then Crucio.
2. "As fact, it is not. It wasn't spoken. He embued it with lightning.
Seems it was something else.
This is also something that I will not entertain any longer: deal with it not be the killing curse."
3. teehee
4-6: Evidence of any of these? (Video, preferably). Because I strongly suspect that some are non-verbal and fall in line with #1.
7. No, you still left out stuff I brought up.
8. At the ministry of Magic (shortly before Voldy Fights Dumble), Harry Potter turns around to do a spell at Voldy and Vodly throws Harry's wand out of his hands with his non-wand hand...TK.
So, if we assume 4-6 are actually spoken AKs, then let's do the math:
4 non-AKs.
3 AKs.
That's not a majority.
Since I strongly suspect that at least 1 of those 4-6 are something other than AKs, your case is weaker.
I'll wait for your video evidence before I make a mockery of your points, any further.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
That's what you wrote ^. Here's what I wrote prior:Gandalf's pyrokinesis was instant and spontaneous and required no movement from his staff, unlike Saruman's.
Saruman's spell was a fireball. Gandalf's ability is instant pyrokinesis. Learn the difference.
You just wrote...BS. I'll take that as another concession.
You can have your fun with jabs and insults and whatever you feel like spewing at me if you think it improves your argument...but at least counter properly.
I directly refuted your "instant" claim in multiple ways.
so this applies to you:
"...at least counter properly."
Originally posted by Korto Vos
..Tell me you're joking, right? Please tell me you're joking.Y'know, the pyrokinesis feat comes from a scene where Gandalf causes Aragorn's sword to burn and forces the ranger to drop it, rendering him weaponless.
Fail.
The argument has been made already for why, already, and it's not refutable.
I do not directly hold that Aragorn can beat Gandalf 10/10 times. However, Aragorn has greater feats against other opponents (such as the WK). He can net more wins against a wider variety of characters.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Backwards reasoning as its finest. Besides, Gandalf is an angelic being- he's beyond man, and ergo beyond Voldemort. He has no difficulty shattering his stick. Or burning it.
man = muggle
Voldemort ! = muggle
Voldemort = a high level magical being (the most powerful dark lord in history)
What type of magical being? A virtual god among his kind.
So let's rape you a bit:
Gandalf = lower angelic being among his kind (his kind being the Valar) =
lower level magical being != demi-god
Virtual God >>>>>>>>> lower level magical being
High Level Magical being >>>>>>> lower level magical being
Need some preparation H after that?
Besides, you did not counter what I stated...just more posturing.
By feats, Voldemort is a much more powerful magical being:
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. Voldemort's pyrokinetics are >>>>>>> Gandalf's by movie feats so Gandalf will not be controlling Voldy's fire anytime soon.2. Voldy's TK is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gandalf's by a long shot so he just "force pushes Gandalf so hard that he splatters.
3. Voldemort turns to a puff of smoke rendering him completely invulnerable...like he did many times including against Voldemort. He can still cast spells from this state so this is an instant win for him 10/10 times.
4. Voldemort casts one of the dozens/hundreds of spells at his disposal that would net him an instant win such as a disarming spell, transfiguration spell, and so forth.
5. Voldemort cannot lose, no matter what, because of Hocruxes. Lame...but he really can't lose.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Isn't PIS/CIS ignored in Vs. fights?
Ummmm
Yeah..
You just killed your entire line of reasoning. You're done.
If you continue to use the "AK goes first" argument, because you believe it creates a way for Voldemort to lose, then you're obviously one of the following:
1. An idiot.
2. Trolling for the lulz.
3. Gimping one side ( as you see it) to net your favorite the win.
We know 1 is not true. 2 might be true, but you have a long precedent in this thread for #3 being the most correct (gotta stick to forum feats, right? 😄 )
Originally posted by Korto Vos
I'm not even going to argue this with you. EVERYONE knows that was Avada Kedavra.
1. Don't steal my lines. Get your own material. 😠
2. Everyone knows it wasn't the killing curse because most visible spells Voldy uses are green, regardless.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Also, I don't hear any "Avada Kedavra" here:
Any spell at all that causes the bird to stop moving and fall to the earth can apply.
Petrificus Totalus
Confundo
Conjunctivitis
Crucio
Defodio
Deprimo (unlikely)
Duro
Imperio
Jelly-Brain Jinx
Obliviate
Stupefy
Not to mention that the Death Eater was too far away to actually hear if he said "Avada Kadavra."
Originally posted by Korto Vos
here:BTW Dude, another example of Voldemort and Avada Kedavra 🙂
Another example of where Voldy says nothing and we have no idea what spell either of them cast.
That's 0/2.
You're no good at this thing called "evidence".
Even if you found a case:
1. It's still a red herring. It means nothing to this discussion, at all.
2. Any time someone was actually killed on screen, it was said.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That's not the killing curse.Also this.
No, the killing curse is not the only spell that produces a flash of green light. If you guys remember the 2nd book CoS, when Lockhart casted obliviate and it backfired it was described as a flash of green light as well.
Saying it's the killing curse just because it's green doesn't make it the killing curse. Voldemort uses the words every time he does so.
Wrong, again.
There is no jet of greenish/blue energy. There is just a glow from Hermione's wand, that's all.
Quit trolling.
What does this remind you of:
Oh yeah, my evidence:
This is a film adaptation of the novel; you remember what happens in the novel? Oh yeah, Avada Kedavra vs. Expelliarmus. How do you think Voldemort dies in the end? The Killing Curse rebounded to destroy him.
You lose Quanchi.
Originally posted by dadudemon
yawnHe still does not know the magic required to counter it...which also requires willpower.
Where is your evidence that he cannot use it during battle?
On the contrary, OOTP explicitly shows that with just willpower (no magic, no Occlumency), an individual can resist mind invasions. Gandalf has a lot of willpower. Your argument dies.
Plus, there is no evidence he does or doesn't use it in battle. You have to prove he does it in a duel against Potter.
But, if you must, he invaded Potters mind against Dumbledore.He went invisible (oh no! where did he go!) and invaded Potter's mind.
HEHEHEHEHEHEHEEHr kasdjf;lk asdfkajsd;fl
Uber pwnage.
So, wait, did you just fall into another trap?
I didn't set that one up because I didn't think you'd actually ask that one.
Lovely, inane babbling now. If Voldemort tried doing that to Dumbledore, sure, you could make that case. But he invaded Potter's mind, even though he wasn't fighting Harry.
Doesn't matter in the end; Legilimency is futile against Gandalf.
Incorrect, and I call you on it, later, in the most direct pwnage fashion. Why did you ignore it? Sucks being wrong, doesn't it? 😄
Why are talking to yourself? You tell me...all I know is that it's great being correct. 😄
"As fact, it is not. It wasn't spoken. He embued it with lightning.Seems it was something else.
This is also something that I will not entertain any longer: deal with it not be the killing curse."
🙄
Wrong, once more.
That exchange is extremely similar to:
* Potter vs. Voldemort in the Little Hangleton Graveyard (the part when the duel actually started)
* Potter vs Voldemort in the Hogwarts courtyard
Guess what? Both times Voldemort is casting Avada Kedavra.That's exactly what he is doing here. He wouldn't bother trying to overpower Dumbledore with some "lightning-embued" energy when he could just cast Avada Kedavra and kill his greatest nemesis. That on top of the fact that Avada Kedavra is Voldemort's "trademark" spell.
And of course, the spell looks like Avada Kedavra. Duh.
Sure, you can say Avada Kedavra is "lightning embued" - that's probably why Harry has a lightning scar.
Try to keep up:Already addressed both points:
And this:
Basically you dodged my counterarguments to those points by just repeating the points again. Okay, thanks for the concession.
Again, you fail to see the obvious point I'm making in that in every one on one combat scenario, the vast majority of times Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra. Not Immobulus. Not Fiendfyre. Not Stupefy. Not Expelliarmus. Not Crucio. Etc. I've already more than enough explained to you how the actual duel starts at 3:12, and everything else prior is an unimpressive showing.
Not only that, I've explained how Gandalf was more than ready for Saruman's fireball, and was completely unfazed (didn't even move) and unimpressed by it (thereby implying his reflexes are extemely quick) Next second later, on a whim, he shatters Saruman's staff. On the other hand, Voldemort had to snarl and exert energy, and bring down his hand with pace just to disarm Harry who wasn't even fighting him, had his back faced to him, was in a wracked mental state, and slowly lifted his wand as he turned around. Furthermore, he had the reflexes to deflect Legolas's arrow, demolish Gimli's throwing axe, cast Blinding Light, and spontaneously burn Aragorn's sword in an ambush by the Fellowship.
Gimme a break. You haven't proven anything. You're just repeating yourself to save face.
So you admit that he enjoys TK as much as AK, yet maintain that he will open with AK when:1. He resorts to TK as a "first option" quite often.
2. Has many instances of not using AK first in formost in battle situtions.
3. It actually does not matter that he will use AK as an opener because it's a silly line of reasoning for a loss, to begin with.Just wanting to make it clear that you've directly admitted some sort of misconstrued bias against HP because you side with AK over TK yet admit equality.
1. Proven wrong.
2. Wrong statement because of opposing evidence.
3. No...out-of-character arguments are "a silly line of reasoning."
1. He opened with TK and then Crucio.
Last time I'm saying it. "When both of them are ready to fight, and Harry is ready to stand-up and face Voldemort like a man in a proper duel, Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra." The duel begins at 3:10.
2. "As fact, it is not. It wasn't spoken. He embued it with lightning.Seems it was something else.
This is also something that I will not entertain any longer: deal with it not be the killing curse."
Don't entertain it any longer: it was the Killing Curse.
3. teehee
At least I am acknowledging all combat instances where Voldemort doesn't open with Avada Kedavra (be it only one).
4-6: Evidence of any of these? (Video, preferably). Because I strongly suspect that some are non-verbal and fall in line with #1.
As I have proved to Quanchi, nonverbal Avada Kedavra occurs in the films. If you want to troll and say otherwise, be my guest. Otherwise, concede please.
7. No, you still left out stuff I brought up.8. At the ministry of Magic (shortly before Voldy Fights Dumble), Harry Potter turns around to do a spell at Voldy and Vodly throws Harry's wand out of his hands with his non-wand hand...TK.
So, if we assume 4-6 are actually spoken AKs, then let's do the math:
4 non-AKs.
3 AKs.
That's not a majority.
That wasn't a combat/duel between Harry and Voldemort, and was a completely unimpressive showing for the Dark Wizard as I have described above.
4-1 = 3
3-1 (for your silly thinking about TK/Crucio) = 2
2-1 (for your silly thinking that Voldemort wasn't using Avada Kedavra against Dumbledore) = 1 (the Incendio example I acknowledged).
Since I strongly suspect that at least 1 of those 4-6 are something other than AKs, your case is weaker.I'll wait for your video evidence before I make a mockery of your points, any further.
There are videos up already in this thread.
I directly refuted your "instant" claim in multiple ways.so this applies to you:
"...at least counter properly."
Yup, I gave two opportunities to counter this statement, and you failed on both counts:
Gandalf's pyrokinesis was instant and spontaneous and required no movement from his staff, unlike Saruman's.
Saruman's spell was a fireball. Gandalf's ability is instant pyrokinesis. Learn the difference.
Voldemort has no defense against instant pyrokinesis.
The argument has been made already for why, already, and it's not refutable.I do not directly hold that Aragorn can beat Gandalf 10/10 times. However, Aragorn has greater feats against other opponents (such as the WK). He can net more wins against a wider variety of characters.
What?
The films directly demonstrates Aragorn having no counter against instant pyrokinesis of his sword. Gandalf kills Aragorn 10/10 times. CIS/PIS is turned off for MVF debates.
man = muggleVoldemort ! = muggle
Voldemort = a high level magical being (the most powerful dark lord in history)
What type of magical being? A virtual god among his kind.
So let's rape you a bit:
Gandalf = lower angelic being among his kind (his kind being the Valar) =
lower level magical being != demi-godVirtual God >>>>>>>>> lower level magical being
High Level Magical being >>>>>>> lower level magical being
Need some preparation H after that?
Besides, you did not counter what I stated...just more posturing.
By feats, Voldemort is a much more powerful magical being:
Literally, what you just spewed was Madness Beyond the Level of "This is Quanchi."
What substance were you on when you typed up that nonsense?
Gandalf = High-level magical being
Voldemort = Human being (he is not of a different species than Muggles 😆 )
Originally posted by dadudemon
UmmmmYeah..
You just killed your entire line of reasoning. You're done.
If you continue to use the "AK goes first" argument, because you believe it creates a way for Voldemort to lose, then you're obviously one of the following:
1. An idiot.
2. Trolling for the lulz.
3. Gimping one side ( as you see it) to net your favorite the win.
We know 1 is not true. 2 might be true, but you have a long precedent in this thread for #3 being the most correct (gotta stick to forum feats, right? 😄 )
Read pages back when I provide my interpretation and then provide the in-character tendencies of Gandalf Istari version.
I'm not gimping any side. I'm looking at this thread objectively and seeing the interpretation as exactly how this thread would play out by the feats shown for each opponent and their in-character tendencies in combat. And from that, I see Gandalf winning.
I'm not saying Gandalf is more versatile or has more spells than Voldemort. That's not true. But what he does have will be enough to shatter Voldemort's wand within several seconds of this fight. And without his wand, Voldy is screwed.
Originally posted by dadudemon
1. Don't steal my lines. Get your own material. 😠2. Everyone knows it wasn't the killing curse because most visible spells Voldy uses are green, regardless.
His "Incendio" isn't greenish/blue 🙄
His "Shadow Magic" isn't greenish/blue
His "Fiendfyre" isn't greenish/blue
Any spell at all that causes the bird to stop moving and fall to the earth can apply.Petrificus Totalus
Confundo
Conjunctivitis
Crucio
Defodio
Deprimo (unlikely)
Duro
Imperio
Jelly-Brain Jinx
Obliviate
Stupefy
Not to mention that the Death Eater was too far away to actually hear if he said "Avada Kadavra."
I'm sorry...because all of these spells are shown to be jets of greenish-blue energy that kill targets automatically, right?
Another example of where Voldy says nothing and we have no idea what spell either of them cast.That's 0/2.
You're no good at this thing called "evidence".
Even if you found a case:
1. It's still a red herring. It means nothing to this discussion, at all.
2. Any time someone was actually killed on screen, it was said.
😆
Because there was so much dialogue between Voldemort and Harry (other than yelling) when Voldemort disintegrated. 🙄
Originally posted by Korto VosYou make unfounded claims and cannot prove them. You throw out examples without any proof and something being green isn't proof it's the killing curse.
Wrong, again.There is no jet of greenish/blue energy. There is just a glow from Hermione's wand, that's all.
Quit trolling.
What does this remind you of:
Oh yeah, my evidence:
This is a film adaptation of the novel; you remember what happens in the novel? Oh yeah, Avada Kedavra vs. Expelliarmus. How do you think Voldemort dies in the end? The Killing Curse rebounded to destroy him.
You lose Quanchi.
In the books everyone was around Voldemort and if the killing curse rebounded and hit him why would he completely disintegrate ? The killing curse doesn't have that kind of effect. The snake died and Voldemort died. The movie made it pretty clear and veered completely in a different direction than how the book ended.