Voldemort vs. Gandalf the White

Originally posted by Korto Vos
His "Incendio" isn't greenish/blue 🙄

I don't ever remember him casting a visible magic ball that created incendio.

There's no little stream or ball for this spell from him that I recall. It doesn't count.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
His "Shadow Magic" isn't greenish/blue

That's cause it's all shadowy but doesn't come from his wand but from himself.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
His "Fiendfyre" isn't greenish/blue

That's cause it's fiendfyre.

All other spells, however, are green. You know, the ones that actually come form his wand, are in the form of a glowing ball or stream...and stuff.

Which is what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I'm sorry...because all of these spells are shown to be jets of greenish-blue energy that kill targets automatically, right?

😆

Prove me wrong instead of trolling.

But, you're trolling because you're pissed about there being a giant ass list of other spells you did not consider.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Because there was so much dialogue between Voldemort and Harry (other than yelling) when Voldemort disintegrated. 🙄

This is also irrelevant to what I stated.

You not very good at replying to posts.

Well, I can say this: everytime he killed someone...ever...he yelled/spoke avada kedavra.

Suck it.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
On the contrary, OOTP explicitly shows that with just willpower (no magic, no Occlumency), an individual can resist mind invasions. Gandalf has a lot of willpower. Your argument dies.

Plus, there is no evidence he does or doesn't use it in battle. You have to prove he does it in a duel against Potter.

On the contrary, it requires magic and a knowledge of it. Without magic, you cannot resist it. Without knowledge of it, you cannot resist it.

Prove me wrong by giving us an example of a magical person, that has no knowledge of it, that resisted it.

You can also use a non-magical person, if you want. Any of those two work.

Until then, you gotta stick with what is in the movies.

And, no, I do not have to prove anything regarding where he uses it: it's in his powerset, he can use it.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Isn't PIS/CIS ignored in Vs. fights?

Despite the fact that he (voldemort) actually used it in the duel against Dumbledore kind of shits all over any credibility that line of reasoning had from you, regardless.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Lovely, inane babbling now. If Voldemort tried doing that to Dumbledore, sure, you could make that case. But he invaded Potter's mind, even though he [B]wasn't fighting Harry.

Doesn't matter in the end; Legilimency is futile against Gandalf.[/B]

You asked, I provided. He used it in a duel. Does not matter which person he used it on. By your reasoning, if he used it in a duel, that means he will try to use it.

To the rest:

"On the contrary, it requires magic and a knowledge of it. Without magic, you cannot resist it. Without knowledge of it, you cannot resist it."

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Why are talking to yourself? You tell me...all I know is that it's great being correct. 😄

You...ignored the entire portion where I showed your word games to be full of stupidity. That's what that reference is to.

Try to keep up.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
🙄

Wrong, once more.

That exchange is extremely similar to:

* Potter vs. Voldemort in the Little Hangleton Graveyard (the part when the duel actually started)

* Potter vs Voldemort in the Hogwarts courtyard

Guess what? Both times Voldemort is casting Avada Kedavra.That's exactly what he is doing here. He wouldn't bother trying to overpower Dumbledore with some "lightning-embued" energy when he could just cast Avada Kedavra and kill his greatest nemesis. That on top of the fact that Avada Kedavra is Voldemort's "trademark" spell.

And of course, the spell [B]looks like Avada Kedavra. Duh.

Sure, you can say Avada Kedavra is "lightning embued" - that's probably why Harry has a lightning scar. [/B]

Originally posted by dadudemon
As fact, it is not. It wasn't spoken. He embued it with lightning.

Seems it was something else. 🙂

This is also something that I will not entertain any longer: deal with it not be the killing curse. 🙂

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Basically you dodged my counterarguments to those points by just repeating the points again. Okay, thanks for the concession.

So by showing you where you're talking in circles, dodging the actual points I've made, I'm dodging and conceding?

It doesn't surprise me that you would hold such a silly notion because you hold quite silly and irrelevant notions of events that occurred in films.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Again, you fail to see the obvious point I'm making in that in every one on one combat scenario, the vast majority of times Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra. Not Immobulus. Not Fiendfyre. Not Stupefy. Not Expelliarmus. Not Crucio. Etc. I've already more than enough explained to you how the actual duel starts at 3:12, and everything else prior is an unimpressive showing.

Wrong:
See here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's Voldemort using Crucio as his first spell at 1:50.

YouTube video

Notice Voldemort's instant reactions and ability to disspell (pun 1000000% fully intended) Harry's disarming spell at 2:07. That's faster than Gandalf's reaction to the fireball spell, by the way. 😉

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Not only that, I've explained how Gandalf was more than ready for Saruman's fireball, and was completely unfazed (didn't even move) and unimpressed by it (thereby implying his reflexes are extemely quick) Next second later, on a whim, he shatters Saruman's staff.

Wrong interpretation of events.

See here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
No it wasn't instant and it most certainly was not spontaneous.

In fact, what happened:

The fireball was meant to hit gandalf and explode into that swirling fireball and then consume Gandalf. Gandalf reacted at the very last moment before the flames actually touched him and his horse, and put up a defensive shield. Gandalf was almost overwhelming, in the beginning (even his comrades were scared), but he slowly gained control of the swirling flames and extinguished them.

Gandalf's ability there was shielding himself from a fireball and having very slow and cumbersome PK.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
On the other hand, Voldemort had to snarl and exert energy, and bring down his hand with pace just to disarm Harry who wasn't even fighting him, had his back faced to him, was in a wracked mental state, and slowly lifted his wand as he turned around.

Wrong.

See here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
You mean the same feat that had both a longer travel time and distance to travel when Gandalf was ready for it (but Voldemort was not ready for Harry Potter to fight back).

Again, nice try, but you're lying is becoming tiresome.

And here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
YouTube video

Notice that Voldemort can cast magic WHILE the wands are interlocked with each other? He has lightning-kinetics, too...just like Gandalf...except Voldy can conjure up lightning withOUT the help from the sky...he makes it on his own. So Voldy is superior in even lightning TK. 😄

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Gimme a break. You haven't proven anything. You're just repeating yourself to save face.

Well, I think we can clearly see who hasn't proven anything.

The most detrimental counters to your position have yet to be addressed by you.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
1. Proven wrong.
2. Wrong statement because of opposing evidence.
3. No...out-of-character arguments are "a silly line of reasoning."

1. Do better than "no u". And it was proven right.
2. Do better than "no u". And it was proven right.
3. You're definitely trolling at this point when you yourself said that PIS and CIS were supposedly off in vs. discussions. Additionally, "It actually does not matter that he will use AK as an opener because it's a silly line of reasoning for a loss, to begin with." Why did I restate that? Because you didn't actually counter it. Here, I'll help you understand what that means: even if Voldy uses that as an opener, he still won't lose and it is not detrimental to his position.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Last time I'm saying it. "When both of them are ready to fight, and Harry is ready to stand-up and face Voldemort like a man in a proper duel, Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra." The duel begins at 3:10.

Wrong, see here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's Voldemort using Crucio as his first spell at 1:50.

YouTube video

Notice Voldemort's instant reactions and ability to disspell (pun 1000000% fully intended) Harry's disarming spell at 2:07.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Don't entertain it any longer: it was the Killing Curse.

Originally posted by dadudemon
As fact, it is not. It wasn't spoken. He embued it with lightning.

Seems it was something else. 🙂

This is also something that I will not entertain any longer: deal with it not be the killing curse. 🙂

Originally posted by Korto Vos
At least I am acknowledging all combat instances where Voldemort doesn't open with Avada Kedavra (be it only one).

Originally posted by dadudemon
7. No, you still left out stuff I brought up.

8. At the ministry of Magic (shortly before Voldy Fights Dumble), Harry Potter turns around to do a spell at Voldy and Vodly throws Harry's wand out of his hands with his non-wand hand...TK.

So, if we assume 4-6 are actually spoken AKs, then let's do the math:

4 non-AKs.

3 AKs.

That's not a majority.

Since I strongly suspect that at least 1 of those 4-6 are something other than AKs, your case is weaker.

I'll wait for your video evidence before I make a mockery of your points, any further.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
As I have proved to Quanchi, nonverbal Avada Kedavra occurs in the films. If you want to troll and say otherwise, be my guest. Otherwise, concede please.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, I can say this: everytime he killed someone...ever...he yelled/spoke avada kedavra.

Suck it.

Also, this:

Originally posted by dadudemon
If you continue to use the "AK goes first" argument, because you believe it creates a way for Voldemort to lose, then you're obviously one of the following:

1. An idiot.

2. Trolling for the lulz.

3. Gimping one side ( as you see it) to net your favorite the win.

We know 1 is not true. 2 might be true, but you have a long precedent in this thread for #3 being the most correct (gotta stick to forum feats, right? 😄 )

Originally posted by Korto Vos
That wasn't a combat/duel between Harry and Voldemort, and was a completely unimpressive showing for the Dark Wizard as I have described above.

Originally posted by dadudemon
To it not being a combat situation, you're wrong:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/combat

"To oppose in battle; fight against."

Did Harry Potter oppose Voldemort or fight against him?

Yes, yes he did. Boom, combat situation.

Now stop playing games.

It was a combat situation. One-sided, but it was combat.

Deal with it.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
4-1 = 3

3-1 (for your silly thinking about TK/Crucio) = 2

2-1 (for your silly thinking that Voldemort wasn't using Avada Kedavra against Dumbledore) = 1 (the Incendio example I acknowledged).

AWESOME!

So you finally concede something.

Just 1.

Since you concede that, I'll concede one major point of contention, as well:

I'll concede that even non-magical beings or ignorant beings of legilimens, will still be able to resist with awesome willpower.

Granted, occlumency is literally the magical resistance of magical mind invasion making me wrong to concede that....but I'll concede since you just conceded a major point of contention. I am a strong believer in the law of reciprocity. 😄

Originally posted by Korto Vos
There are videos up already in this thread.

I looked and could not find.

Yes, I've read every single post in this thread. I just don't find an example of what you speak of. It's mostly because it didn't happen, of course. (Meaning, I caught you stretching the truth, yet again...I say stretching because you don't think it's lying)

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yup, I gave two opportunities to counter this statement, and you failed on both counts:

Gandalf's pyrokinesis was instant and spontaneous and required no movement from his staff, unlike Saruman's.

Saruman's spell was a fireball. Gandalf's ability is instant pyrokinesis. Learn the difference.

Voldemort has no defense against instant pyrokinesis.

Wrong, see here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
No it wasn't instant and it most certainly was not spontaneous.

In fact, what happened:

The fireball was meant to hit gandalf and explode into that swirling fireball and then consume Gandalf. Gandalf reacted at the very last moment before the flames actually touched him and his horse, and put up a defensive shield. Gandalf was almost overwhelming, in the beginning (even his comrades were scared), but he slowly gained control of the swirling flames and extinguished them.

Gandalf's ability there was shielding himself from a fireball and having very slow and cumbersome PK.

And here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Voldemort's pyrokinetics are >>>>>>> Gandalf's by movie feats so Gandalf will not be controlling Voldy's fire anytime soon.

And to instant fire, here:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Here's Voldemort using Crucio as his first spell at 1:50.

YouTube video

Notice Voldemort's instant reactions and ability to disspell (pun 1000000% fully intended) Harry's disarming spell at 2:07. That's faster than Gandalf's reaction to the fireball spell, by the way. 😉

Plus this:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Voldemort's pyrokinetics are >>>>>>> Gandalf's by movie feats so Gandalf will not be controlling Voldy's fire anytime soon.

Equals your required response.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
What?

The films directly demonstrates Aragorn having no counter against instant pyrokinesis of his sword. Gandalf kills Aragorn 10/10 times. CIS/PIS is turned off for MVF debates.

That actually did not counter what I said, at all.

"The argument has been made already for why, already, and it's not refutable.

I do not directly hold that Aragorn can beat Gandalf 10/10 times. However, Aragorn has greater feats against other opponents (such as the WK). He can net more wins against a wider variety of characters."

And you definitely killed yourself with that CIS/PIS being turned off for debates, btw. 😄

Originally posted by Korto Vos
This.

Literally, what you just spewed was Madness Beyond the Level of "This is Quanchi."

What substance were you on when you typed up that nonsense?

Gandalf = High-level magical being
Voldemort = Human being (he is not of a different species than Muggles 😆 )

No, Gandalf is a lower level magical being in his universe.

Voldemort is a high level (among the very top) in his universe.

To the rest, muggles are mere men. Magical folk are not muggles.

Congratulations: Gandalf, Saruman, and Sauron take on "human" forms. You just proved your ignorance of the LotR universe with that.

You have sealed your fate as an wiki-debator...meaning, your arguments have no real substance: just stuff you can quickly glean from a wiki.

Additionally, to Voldemort being a mere man:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Since he can apparate, cast spells in smoke form, can do fiendfyre, has massive TK...then he could take on every last character from LotR, all at once.

Yes, tens to hundreds of thousands of characters, all at once.

Voldemort still solos the entirety of the LotR universe (movie versions, of course).

How are they supposed to harm a cloud of smoke that is casting fiendfyre? How are they supposed to kill Voldemort when they literally cannot kill him (horcruxes)?

But, keep in mind, the LotR supporters are being objective about this. dur

Voldemort is not a man anymore by any definition. He modified himself to be more like a snake. He also used horcruxes which makes him explicitly no longer human: his very soul is broken into pieces.

To quote Dumbledore: "Without his Horcruxes, Voldemort will be a mortal man."

Teeeheehehehehehwl;kerjhwlkejhrlkqwe jr

WEEEEEEEEE!

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Read pages back when I provide my interpretation and then provide the in-character tendencies of Gandalf Istari version.

I'm not gimping any side. I'm looking at this thread objectively and seeing the interpretation as exactly how this thread would play out by the feats shown for each opponent and their in-character tendencies in combat. And from that, I see Gandalf winning.

I'm not saying Gandalf is more versatile or has more spells than Voldemort. That's not true. But what he does have will be enough to shatter Voldemort's wand within several seconds of this fight. And without his wand, Voldy is screwed.

You just killed that line of reasoning when you said this:

Originally posted by Korto Vos
CIS/PIS is turned off for MVF debates.

At this point, you're just desperate. You should admit defeat, now. Or at least no contend the already irrelevant point of AK being the MO for Voldy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You make unfounded claims and cannot prove them. You throw out examples without any proof and something being green isn't proof it's the killing curse.

In the books everyone was around Voldemort and if the killing curse rebounded and hit him why would he completely disintegrate ? The killing curse doesn't have that kind of effect. The snake died and Voldemort died. The movie made it pretty clear and veered completely in a different direction than how the book ended.

How am I making "unfounded claims" when I am actually dishing out evidence that back up my assertions?

Absolutely wrong...Voldemort did not just die because Nagini was killed. Once it was just him vs. Harry (after Neville beheaded the snake), the Elder Wand refused to murder its true master, to whom it held its allegiance. Hence, you see the Expelliarmus easily pushing back the Killing Curse; Avada Kedavra rebounds and you see this by the emanation of green light through the cracking Deathstick until it hits Voldemort's hand, causing it to blacken (this spreads to the rest of his body). The Elder Wand flies to Harry, and the spell's rebound disintegrates Voldemort.

This is a better video for you to see this:

H vs. V

This on top of my previous post proves me right. If you want to keep saying "No, you're wrong. You make unfounded claims," you'll be trolling and I will stop responding to you.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't ever remember him casting a visible magic ball that created incendio.

There's no little stream or ball for this spell from him that I recall. It doesn't count.

Tell me, why doesn't this count?

Incendio

If this isn't Incendio, fine, call it "Fireball" if you wish. Point being...this isn't green.

That's cause it's all shadowy but doesn't come from his wand but from himself.

Wrong. Watch:

Shadow Spell

It's clearly coming from his wand (you see Voldemort point out his wand and fire the magic at Dumbledore), and it's not green.

That's cause it's fiendfyre.

Which is not green!

All other spells, however, are green. You know, the ones that actually come form his wand, are in the form of a glowing ball or stream...and stuff.

Which is what I'm talking about.

Seriously, the only other spell he's using is Avada Kedavra, which is green/blueish.

Prove me wrong instead of trolling.

But, you're trolling because you're pissed about there being a giant ass list of other spells you did not consider.

Learn when to use the word "troll." You just pasted a bunch of random spells whose physical appearances aren't jets of greenish-blue energy.

Crucio is a jet/bolt of greenish-blue energy? No. Want me to provide you video evidence?
Obliviate is a jet/bolt of greenish-blue energy? No. Want me to provide you video evidence?
Petrificus Totalus is a jet/bolt of greenish-blue energy? No. Want me to provide you video evidence?
Stupefy is a jet/bolt of greenish-blue energy? No. Want me to provide you video evidence?
Imperio is a jet/bolt of greenish-blue energy? No. Want me to provide you video evidence.

Do these spells kill you automatically? No.

Do you want to say "yes" to those questions above? Please tell me, and I'll more than gladly show everyone who here is acting like a "troll."

This is also irrelevant to what I stated.

You not very good at replying to posts.

Well, I can say this: everytime he killed someone...ever...he yelled/spoke avada kedavra.

Suck it.

I'll repeat myself again. Avada Kedavra rebounds to kill Voldemort at the end. And he never says "Avada Kedavra" there.

Read my last response to Quanchi for more information.

Originally posted by dadudemon
On the contrary, it requires magic and a knowledge of it. Without magic, you cannot resist it. Without knowledge of it, you cannot resist it.

Prove me wrong by giving us an example of a magical person, that has no knowledge of it, that resisted it.

You can also use a non-magical person, if you want. Any of those two work.

Until then, you gotta stick with what is in the movies.

And, no, I do not have to prove anything regarding where he uses it: it's in his powerset, he can use it.

Harry doesn't do anything magical to block Voldemort from his mind. His willpower (the most critical component of Occlumency) is enough.

Despite the fact that he (voldemort) actually used it in the duel against Dumbledore kind of shits all over any credibility that line of reasoning had from you, regardless.

Used what against Dumbledore? Legilimency. Did he now? Please provide proof.

You asked, I provided. He used it in a duel. Does not matter which person he used it on. By your reasoning, if he used it in a duel, that means he will try to use it.

To the rest:

"On the contrary, it requires magic and a knowledge of it. Without magic, you cannot resist it. Without knowledge of it, you cannot resist it."

1. It was against a completely defenseless individual who he wasn't fighting.

2. Ignoring #1, you're saying Occlumency is a move all by itself, and that Voldemort has to take time in performing this maneuver. My interpretation still holds- Occlumency isn't an opening move by Voldemort. In fact, once Voldemort realizes all of his spells have failed against Dumbledore, he then employs mind invasion. Ergo, my interpretation still holds, and Occlumency (which won't even Gandalf because of the Istari's willpower) won't even affect (nor be used against) the White Wizard.

You...ignored the entire portion where I showed your word games to be full of stupidity. That's what that reference is to.

Try to keep up.

Be original in your comments. I'm taking the time to type counterarguments. All you're doing is just ignoring them and re-pasting your previous points, even though they were the ones that I constructed a counterargument for in the first place! You completely brush off what I'm saying.

The rest of your post is exactly what I wrote above: you just re-pasting and dodging everything I've written.

I am not going to waste my time with someone who'll just ignore what I have to say and just repeat stuff over and over again. Not once have you constructed an argument where Voldemort's in-character tendency is not to open with Avada Kedavra.

Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra. The interpretation holds. Gandalf wins.

This is what you said:

As fact, it is not. It wasn't spoken. He embued it with lightning.

Seems it was something else.

This is also something that I will not entertain any longer: deal with it not be the killing curse.

This is what I said:

Wrong, once more.

That exchange is extremely similar to:

* Potter vs. Voldemort in the Little Hangleton Graveyard (the part when the duel actually started)

* Potter vs Voldemort in the Hogwarts courtyard

Guess what? Both times Voldemort is casting Avada Kedavra.That's exactly what he is doing here. He wouldn't bother trying to overpower Dumbledore with some "lightning-embued" energy when he could just cast Avada Kedavra and kill his greatest nemesis. That on top of the fact that Avada Kedavra is Voldemort's "trademark" spell.

And of course, the spell looks like Avada Kedavra. Duh.

Sure, you can say Avada Kedavra is "lightning embued" - that's probably why Harry has a lightning scar.

What did you do?

You REPEAT yourself:

As fact, it is not. It wasn't spoken. He embued it with lightning.

Seems it was something else.

This is also something that I will not entertain any longer: deal with it not be the killing curse.

And then take one line from the NEXT rebuttal block:

Basically you dodged my counterarguments to those points by just repeating the points again. Okay, thanks for the concession.

And respond with:

So by showing you where you're talking in circles, dodging the actual points I've made, I'm dodging and conceding?

It doesn't surprise me that you would hold such a silly notion because you hold quite silly and irrelevant notions of events that occurred in films.

1. Where am I dodging? I am responding to your argument.

2. All you're doing is just taking swipes at me and not bothering to counter what I said. All you're doing is just re-pasting your previous post. In fact, this is the height of hypocrisy, since you are accusing me of "dodging" and "talking in circles."

You realize my frustration here? I'm disappointed that a poster of your character and respectability resorts to such negative tactics.

Let us demonstrate another example.

You said this:

No it wasn't instant and it most certainly was not spontaneous.

In fact, what happened:

The fireball was meant to hit gandalf and explode into that swirling fireball and then consume Gandalf. Gandalf reacted at the very last moment before the flames actually touched him and his horse, and put up a defensive shield. Gandalf was almost overwhelming, in the beginning (even his comrades were scared), but he slowly gained control of the swirling flames and extinguished them.

Gandalf's ability there was shielding himself from a fireball and having very slow and cumbersome PK.

I said this:

Yup, I gave two opportunities to counter this statement, and you failed on both counts:

Gandalf's pyrokinesis was instant and spontaneous and required no movement from his staff, unlike Saruman's.

Saruman's spell was a fireball. Gandalf's ability is instant pyrokinesis. Learn the difference.

Voldemort has no defense against instant pyrokinesis.

And this:

Not only that, I've explained how Gandalf was more than ready for Saruman's fireball, and was completely unfazed (didn't even move) and unimpressed by it (thereby implying his reflexes are extemely quick) Next second later, on a whim, he shatters Saruman's staff.

What happened next? You repeat yourself.

And you conveniently ignore this:

Furthermore, he had the reflexes to deflect Legolas's arrow, demolish Gimli's throwing axe, cast Blinding Light, and spontaneously burn Aragorn's sword in an ambush by the Fellowship.

For this:

On the other hand, Voldemort had to snarl and exert energy, and bring down his hand with pace just to disarm Harry who wasn't even fighting him, had his back faced to him, was in a wracked mental state, and slowly lifted his wand as he turned around.

In relation to the opening of this video: Vid

You re-paste with this:

You mean the same feat that had both a longer travel time and distance to travel when Gandalf was ready for it (but Voldemort was not ready for Harry Potter to fight back).

Again, nice try, but you're lying is becoming tiresome.

This makes absolutely zero sense.

Well, I think we can clearly see who hasn't proven anything.

The most detrimental counters to your position have yet to be addressed by you.

What a joke...

I kept saying this:

Last time I'm saying it. "When both of them are ready to fight, and Harry is ready to stand-up and face Voldemort like a man in a proper duel, Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra." The duel begins at 3:10.

You re-pasted that video, and said Here's Voldemort using Crucio as his first spell at 1:50., even though ^ is addressed against that point.

Originally posted by dadudemon
AWESOME!

So you finally concede something.

Just 1.

Since you concede that, I'll concede one major point of contention, as well:

I'll concede that even non-magical beings or ignorant beings of legilimens, will still be able to resist with awesome willpower.

Granted, occlumency is literally the magical resistance of magical mind invasion making me wrong to concede that....but I'll concede since you just conceded a major point of contention. I am a strong believer in the law of reciprocity. 😄

The only thing I have conceded is that Voldemort has one combat/duel instance where he doesn't open with Avada Kedavra.

Thank you for the concession.

I looked and could not find.

Yes, I've read every single post in this thread. I just don't find an example of what you speak of. It's mostly because it didn't happen, of course. (Meaning, I caught you stretching the truth, yet again...I say stretching because you don't think it's lying)

Yeah okay, search this thread again, boss.

"The argument has been made already for why, already, and it's not refutable.

I do not directly hold that Aragorn can beat Gandalf 10/10 times. However, Aragorn has greater feats against other opponents (such as the WK). He can net more wins against a wider variety of characters."

And you definitely killed yourself with that CIS/PIS being turned off for debates, btw. 😄

What's CIS/PIS is the Witch King against Gandalf. That staff-breaking doesn't occur in the books and Ralph Bakshi's cartoon adaptation depicts the actual version. In the books, Gandalf fights all 9 Nazgul simultaneously at Weathertop and battles them to a stalemate.

Aragorn would lose 10/10 times to Gandalf.

No, Gandalf is a lower level magical being in his universe.

Voldemort is a high level (among the very top) in his universe.

To the rest, muggles are mere men. Magical folk are not muggles.

Congratulations: Gandalf, Saruman, and Sauron take on "human" forms. You just proved your ignorance of the LotR universe with that.

You have sealed your fate as an wiki-debator...meaning, your arguments have no real substance: just stuff you can quickly glean from a wiki.

Additionally, to Voldemort being a mere man:

Voldemort is not a man anymore by any definition. He modified himself to be more like a snake. He also used horcruxes which makes him explicitly no longer human: his very soul is broken into pieces.

To quote Dumbledore: "Without his Horcruxes, Voldemort will be a mortal man."

Teeeheehehehehehwl;kerjhwlkejhrlkqwe jr

WEEEEEEEEE!

You just killed that line of reasoning when you said this

I'm going to take a leaf from your book and just repeat this:

Everyone reading this thread is now dumber for having read your insanely, idiotic response

At this point, you're just desperate. You should admit defeat, now. Or at least no contend the already irrelevant point of AK being the MO for Voldy.

At this point, I'm probably going to stop debating with you because of your stonewalling.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
How am I making "unfounded claims" when I am actually dishing out evidence that back up my assertions?

Absolutely wrong...Voldemort did not just die because Nagini was killed. Once it was just him vs. Harry (after Neville beheaded the snake), the Elder Wand refused to murder its true master, to whom it held its allegiance. Hence, you see the Expelliarmus easily pushing back the Killing Curse; Avada Kedavra rebounds and you see this by the emanation of green light through the cracking Deathstick until it hits Voldemort's hand, causing it to blacken (this spreads to the rest of his body). The Elder Wand flies to Harry, and the spell's rebound disintegrates Voldemort.

This is a better video for you to see this:

H vs. V

This on top of my previous post proves me right. If you want to keep saying "No, you're wrong. You make unfounded claims," you'll be trolling and I will stop responding to you.

The elder wand attacked Harry prior to with the killing curse but only killed or destroyed Voldemort's soul inside him but the movie makes it clear Harry could have remained dead had he wanted to.

Arguing the killing curse suddenly disintegrates upon contact isn't consistent with anything prior to Voldemort's final death.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Once the snake was killed he started dying. This lost the tug of war with regards to the blasting. The killing curse doesn't disintegrate even if it does rebound.

The elder wand attacked Harry prior to with the killing curse but only killed or destroyed Voldemort's soul inside him but the movie makes it clear Harry could have remained dead had he wanted to.

Arguing the killing curse suddenly disintegrates upon contact isn't consistent with anything prior to Voldemort's final death.

Actually, the Elder Wand realized Harry to be its master, and therefore when Harry was trying to disarm Voldemort with Expelliarmus, it willingly complied. It didn't want to kill its master, and rebounded the Killing Curse onto Voldemort. The disintegration was a symbolic scene of Voldemort.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Actually, the Elder Wand realized Harry to be its master, and therefore when Harry was trying to disarm Voldemort with Expelliarmus, it willingly complied. It didn't want to kill its master, and rebounded the Killing Curse onto Voldemort. The disintegration was a symbolic scene of Voldemort.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Tell me, why doesn't this count?

Incendio

If this isn't Incendio, fine, call it "Fireball" if you wish. Point being...this isn't green.

Fireball does not equal = a magical spell

in the context that we are discussing. I want a magical spell, not a fireball.

Sure, it's magic...but it's not what we are talking about.

To me, that's the same thing as casting a butterfly spell where the only thing that comes out of the wand is butterflies: that's not what we're talking about.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Wrong. Watch:

Shadow Spell

It's clearly coming from his wand (you see Voldemort point out his wand and fire the magic at Dumbledore), and it's not green.

Wow.

This time, you've gone too far.

There's two angles showing that that shadow magic is NOT coming from his wand, but his hands.

Like I said, you've gone too far with this lying crap. I've reported you for trolling. This has to stop. You need to stop trolling.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Which is not green!

"Fireball does not equal = a magical spell

in the context that we are discussing. I want a magical spell, not a fireball.

Sure, it's magic...but it's not what we are talking about.

To me, that's the same thing as casting a butterfly spell where the only thing that comes out of the wand is butterflies: that's not what we're talking about."

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Learn when to use the word "troll." You just pasted a bunch of random spells whose physical appearances aren't jets of greenish-blue energy.

Crucio is a jet/bolt of greenish-blue energy? No. Want me to provide you video evidence?
Obliviate is a jet/bolt of greenish-blue energy? No. Want me to provide you video evidence?
Petrificus Totalus is a jet/bolt of greenish-blue energy? No. Want me to provide you video evidence?
Stupefy is a jet/bolt of greenish-blue energy? No. Want me to provide you video evidence?
Imperio is a jet/bolt of greenish-blue energy? No. Want me to provide you video evidence.

Do these spells kill you automatically? No.

Do you want to say "yes" to those questions above? Please tell me, and I'll more than gladly show everyone who here is acting like a "troll."

Yes, to all of the above and then some. Because you left off quite a few form that list.

Here's the problem: you'd have to prove it for Voldemort and not anyone else.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I'll repeat myself again. Avada Kedavra rebounds to kill Voldemort at the end. And he never says "Avada Kedavra" there.

Read my last response to Quanchi for more information.

No.

We've been over this, already. It's an irrelevant argument, to begin with. It's a waste of time. It's a red herring. It does nothing for your side. And you're just trolling.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Harry doesn't do anything magical to block Voldemort from his mind. His willpower (the most critical component of Occlumency) is enough.

Wrong.

This:

"Occlumency, Potter. The magical defense of the mind against external penetration. An obscure branch of magic, but a highly useful one"

and this:

"It appears there’s a connection…

…between the Dark Lord’s mind
and your own.

Whether he is, as yet, aware of this
connection is, for the moment, unclear.

Pray he remains ignorant.

You mean, if he knows about it, then…

…he’ll be able to read my mind?
- Read it, control it…

…unhinge it.

In the past, it was often
the Dark Lord’s pleasure…

…to invade the minds of his victims…

…creating visions designed
to torture them into madness.

Only after extracting the last exquisite
ounce of agony…

…only when he had them literally
begging for death, would he finally…

…kill them.

Used properly,
the power of Occlumency…

…will help shield you
from access or influence.

In these lessons, I will attempt
to penetrate your mind.

You will attempt to resist.

Prepare yourself.

Legilimens.

Concentrate, Potter. Focus."

I have reported you for trolling again. I warned you. That's twice now that you have deliberately lied.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Used what against Dumbledore? Legilimency. Did he now? Please provide proof.

No. You know he did it. You saw the same videos and movies I did. I already described how he did it, as well, in previous posts. You even acknowledge it in the very next section. Stop trolling and stop talking in circles. This is why I requote stuff to you quite often.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
1. It was against a completely defenseless individual who he wasn't fighting.

Originally posted by dadudemon
... you're wrong:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/combat

"To oppose in battle; fight against."

Did Harry Potter oppose Voldemort or fight against him?

Yes, yes he did. Boom, combat situation.

Now stop playing games.

It was a combat situation. One-sided, but it was combat.

Deal with it.

Additionally, Harry fought back. Stop lying.

I already reported your post for this type of trolling, so I can't report it again...but this is the second time in this post, alone, that you've deliberately trolled: Harry was not defenseless: he had a wand and he used it.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
2. Ignoring #1, you're saying Occlumency is a move all by itself, and that Voldemort has to take time in performing this maneuver. My interpretation still holds- Occlumency isn't an opening move by Voldemort. In fact, once Voldemort realizes all of his spells have failed against Dumbledore, he then employs mind invasion. Ergo, my interpretation still holds, and Occlumency (which won't even Gandalf because of the Istari's willpower) won't even affect (nor be used against) the White Wizard.

Stop trolling:

Originally posted by Korto Vos
CIS/PIS is turned off for MVF debates.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I am not going to waste my time with someone who'll just ignore what I have to say and just repeat stuff over and over again. Not once have you constructed an argument where Voldemort's in-character tendency is not to open with Avada Kedavra. Voldemort opens with Avada Kedavra. The interpretation holds. Gandalf wins.

That's my line and why you are getting previous posts: you're arguing in circles.

Here's what you're doing:

Me: A.
You: B.
Me: A because P.
You: B because I said so.
Me: Okay...but still "A because P.
You: Still be because I said so.
Me: facepalm

If you don't want the same exact replies given to you, actually move on and stop recycling the same exact arguments.

"RAWR! OCCLUMENCY IS NOT MAGIC! RAWR!!! VOLDEMORT OPENS WITH DEATH SPELLS!"

Those arguments have been thoroughly defeated or shown to be irrelevant.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
This is what you said:

This is what I said:

What did you do?

You REPEAT yourself:

I guess you missed the part where whatever you say after that point, it is moot/irrelevant/wrong UNLESS it says, "Yeah, I guess you're right: there's no way I can prove that to be an AK spell".

Guess what? The same exact reply to everything you typed out is STILL the same. Nothing changes just because you type a bunch of words (which were mostly irrelevant, by the way) to what I had stated. There is nothing more that can be said about that point after what I said. If you bring it up and try to pass it off as AK, you get the same exact argument.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
And then take one line from the NEXT rebuttal block:

Basically you dodged my counterarguments to those points by just repeating the points again. Okay, thanks for the concession.

And respond with:

1. Where am I dodging? I am responding to your argument.

2. All you're doing is just taking swipes at me and not bothering to counter what I said. All you're doing is just re-pasting your previous post. In fact, this is the height of hypocrisy, since you are accusing me of "dodging" and "talking in circles."

You realize my frustration here? I'm disappointed that a poster of your character and respectability resorts to such negative tactics.

Woah...

A poster of my character? What character? You mean a smartass pervert with very little class? That character?

So? 😬

But, to everything else your said: your frustration more than proves that you are finally getting it: don't talk in circles. If you bring up the SAME EXACT arguments and present them the same way, YOU WILL GET THE SAME EXACT ARGUMENTS.

That's a fairly simple formula. Instead of me humoring your trolling (trolls try to force people into arguing about the same things over and over and get frustrated), I will diffuse you. I've taken away your bombs, so now you're getting frustrated. That's how you take care of trolls. 🙂

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Let us demonstrate another example.

You said this:

I said this:

And this:

What happened next? You [B]repeat yourself.[/B]

You should not be wondering: your interpretation of events is wrong. Mine are right.

You make stuff up about "instant" and "already ready", but that's simply not true.

So anything you say after that which re-iterates those same points WOULD HAVE THE SAME EXACT REPLY FROM ME.

Is it clicking yet? I hope so.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
And you conveniently ignore this:

For this:

In relation to the opening of this video: Vid

You re-paste with this:

This makes absolutely zero sense.

It makes perfect sense.

The woods scene is irrelevant. That's another red herring on your part.

Spell for spell. Apples to apples. Keep it that way.

Once more because you didn't get it the first time:

Voldemort's reaction is far faster than ANYTHING Gandalf has done because he not only reacted to Harry Potter's quick attack at point blank range, he had enough reaction to repell back onto to Harry, instantly, which is another spell. So he reacted to it, blocked it, and repelled it with magic in a shorter period of time than the fireball even traveled to Gandalf.

There's no need to move on to the woods scene if you haven't gotten over that: the woods scene is not as good of a feat of reaction as countering magic with magic.

Now, no more. Don't bring this up again or I'll just requote myself.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
What a joke...

I kept saying this:

You re-pasted that video, and said Here's Voldemort using Crucio as his first spell at 1:50., even though ^ is addressed against that point.

You ignored that I addressed it. AK is not his first spell. I proved that wrong, quite thoroughly.

If you bring it up again, I will simply copy and paste the counter arguments for why your argument fails.

Regardless, it's an irrelevant argument, anyway, as I have pointed out. There's no reason to even be arguing it.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
The only thing I have conceded is that Voldemort has one combat/duel instance where he doesn't open with Avada Kedavra.

Thank you for the concession.

No, no concession. You conceded that you could only prove one AK. I accept that concession and was willing to incorrectly give up one of mine.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yeah okay, search this thread again, boss.

Nah. It's not there. You're lying, directly. You know you have nothing.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
[B]What's CIS/PIS is the Witch King against Gandalf. That staff-breaking doesn't occur in the books and Ralph Bakshi's cartoon adaptation depicts the actual version. In the books, Gandalf fights all 9 Nazgul simultaneously at Weathertop and battles them to a stalemate.

Aragorn would lose 10/10 times to Gandalf. [/B]

This is a red herring of a reply.

This is irrelevant. Why do you do these things? 😄

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I'm going to take a leaf from your book and just repeat this:

Everyone reading this thread is now dumber for having read your insanely, idiotic response

So, because I directly proved you wrong with a quote from Dumbles, you'll do what others despised about RJ: posting a mock/troll vid?

You're the one that takes insult by that comparison, but, I'm sorry: the only other poster that I have had to requote myself to that much as RJ himself. You have his MO, thoroughly.

Wait....wait...wait...

Is that you, RJ?

It can't be...the registration date...

Originally posted by Korto Vos
At this point, I'm probably going to stop debating with you because of your stonewalling.

You mean because I've nipped your trolling right in the bud?

Let's get back to basics:

Occlumency: can be used. No CIS/PIS. Can be used at any time. If it nets a win for Volde, it's a win.

Cloud form that is invulnerable to nigh everything except probably high levels of TK. He can cast fiendfyre or any number of spells/curses/charms/jinxes while in that form.

Will he open with AK? CIS/PIS is off. It's irrelevant. Despite that, you have a better case for TK than AK being his first choice. Maybe even with Gandalf, too...I believe that's what he resorted to, first, again Saruman. We both agree that CIS/PIS is off unless the thread starter states something like "in character" or "morals are on". Else we end up with Gandalf trying to reason with Voldemort to not be bad...like he did with Saruman. Not a good match up...because that's lame.

Who is faster? By time and skill, that would be Voldemort. He has the literal fastest reaction and disarming/deflection time out of the two wizards. That's not debatable so we really should not discuss it. But I will admit that the reaction times are close and it won't matter in this thread because they are at a distance from each other. (20 feet) So that pretty much nulls Voldemort's point blank range reaction speed trumping Gandalf.

SO what's left?

Voldemort cannot lose because he cannot be killed, Voldemort has protection due to Lily Potter, Voldemort can choose whatever he wants to win because CIS/PIS is off. So he wins, by your own rules and admissions of him being more versitile and having more powers.

Nicely done, my new disciple.

How many disciples do you have?

As many as the situation demands.

LoL, knew the Voldermort cheer-crowd would have to resort to the "he can't die because of the horcruxes" angle as a last ditch effort.

Pretty stupid/pointless including that in a MVF fight, eh. If we start using these "only can die from" angles, then any RotN ninja could kill every Harry Potter wizard.

YouTube video

Its not as bad as the 'Gandalf can't die because he's an Isari' angle.