Originally posted by dadudemon
You bastards ignored a post about a potentially "objective" way to go about measuring the two characters against each other.So this more than shows that you guys are more interested in posturing and boasting than actually KNOWING which side would have superior feats. Lame, really.
So, I guess this confirms what Robtard said ages ago: this is more about favorites than deciding who actually wins.
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(fight starts 1.40 minutes in)
vs
Oh shit, been a while since I've seen Troy. Achilles wasn't just toying with Hector. Hector came close to slicing his throat open; you can see the "wtf, this isn't supposed to happen to me" look on Achilles face @ 1:30.
He's also noticeable winded after 2 minutes of battle, @ 2:16. Vader didn't have this problem, even after fighting next to a river of lava. Also consider the agility required to fight on pipes and such.
Vader wins in 3 seconds.
Originally posted by RobtardHe was toying with Hector. The closest he came was skimming his breast plate. Achilles was surprised he got that close which no one ever seemed able to even come that close before. Achilles also tosses his shield down and let's Hector recover. Him breathing in heavily didn't show he was gassed as he easily won after that fact.
Oh shit, been a while since I've seen Troy. Achilles wasn't just toying with Hector. Hector came close to slicing his throat open; you can see the "wtf, this isn't supposed to happen to me" look on Achilles face @ 1:30.He's also noticeable winded after 2 minutes of battle, @ 2:16. Vader didn't have this problem, even after fighting next to a river of lava. Also consider the agility required to fight on pipes and such.
Vader wins in 3 seconds.
Achilles won't purposely toss his shield away like did against Hector.
Originally posted by Robtard
Considering the time it takes Hector to reach the temple after Achilles' spear hits his man, it's not hundreds of yards. The horses were trotting.
I agree with Borb and DDM that it was just about the world record of the javelin. Its impressive but not necessarily superhuman.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He was toying with Hector. The closest he came was skimming his breast plate. Achilles was surprised he got that close which no one ever seemed able to even come that close before. Achilles also tosses his shield down and let's Hector recover. Him breathing in heavily didn't show he was gassed as he easily won after that fact.Achilles won't purposely toss his shield away like did against Hector.
LoL, you didn't pay attention again. Figures.
The look on Achilles' face of "that motherfvcker, this doesn't happen to me" proves you're wrong, Achilles came close to getting his throat slit; he knew it.
Hector tripped on a rock and this is why Achilles let him recover, he didn't want to win because of a rock; he clearly says so. It had nothing to do with toying with Hector.
Achilles' clearly the better fighter as he won, but it's not like you imagine. What's on the video > your fanboy imaginations.
Originally posted by RobtardHe never even cut his skin yet you're claiming he almost slit his throat.... 😂
LoL, you didn't pay attention again. Figures.The look on Achilles' face of "that motherfvcker, this doesn't happen to me" proves you're wrong, Achilles came close to getting his throat slit; he knew it.
Hector tripped on a rock and this is why Achilles let him recover, he didn't want to win because of a rock; he clearly says so. It had nothing to do with toying with Hector.
Achilles' clearly the better fighter as he won, but it's not like you imagine. What's on the video > your fanboy imaginations.
Achilles tosses his shield after he easily catches and blocks a strike from Hector in which he falls over a rock. Achilles pissed off Hector is hurt so he tosses his shield and gives him the time to gather himself.
Yes, he toyed with Hector and once he cut his breastplate he figured enough was enough. End game.
Achilles' skin was never even cut yet you claim this fight was close in the regard he almost killed Achilles. Never change, ron.
Originally posted by Korto Vos
Both this and the Legolas thread have become such one-sided fights. Retire this thread or close it with a Call in a Mod Strike!
I get the feeling that if DDM does the math it will be the end of the thread. If its in Anakins favor everyone will just go away vindicated enough not to put up with Quans bullshit anymore and if its in Achilles' favor Quan'll become so insufferable no-one will want to debate him anymore.
(not that it will be in Achilles' favor)
Edit: Also note that Anakins lightsaber is alot longer than Achilles' sword. Giving Anakin annother advantage.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I already have. Anakin isn't a slouch by any means but I want you to acknowledge the fact Anakin has had more second chances than Charlie Sheen. Anakin also won and that's what Palpatine wanted anyways Dooku's usefulness had run out.
Your point? Where may it be?
I don't see how the art of storytelling in the SW universe saves Achilles from getting killed. The same applies to Palpatine's wishes regarding the duel between Anakin and Dooku. Red herring?
He was emotionally unstable against Dooku but quickly finished him off. If he wasn't he wouldn't have just killed him when Palpatine simply said, "Do it." Dooku also makes it clear he can feel his anger showing Anakin is always so emotionally all over the place but this is also a weakness as we see against Obi Wan.
Anakin, in this situation, was far away from an emotional unstable state. He was focused on using his darker emotions against Dooku. He hated the Count, he wanted him dead, he focused on his hatred to archive what he wanted.
The situation in which he fights Obi-Wan is entirely different. He's totally insane there, to the point in which he almost kills his beloved wife, because of assuming she smuggled Obi-Wan to him. Then he engages in a duel with the guy that he went to all kind of shit with for the past 13 years. As Obi-Wan states: "We were brothers!" It's absolutely impossible, that Anakin did utilize the same focus that he used against Dooku and it's likewise impossible, that this scenario will be replicated in his virtual fight against Achilles.
He will either fight the Jedi way: Cool, without emotion, controlled or utilize his focused anger against Achilles. Either way, the Greek fighter is toast.
By upper crust I mean atop the mountain. Achilles has the lion share while Anakin is desperately trying to cry his way up it but in the end just rages his way into defeat after defeat. Palpatine, Windu, Yoda, Obi, and hell I'd even say Maul as well are more skilled or just as skilled As Anakin is with a lightsaber. So he's among the elite just not the upper crust who are above him.
Elite of an order of superhumans > upper crust of regular mortals. End of story.
Achilles doesn't win fights based off of the admiration of his men he wins them by being far greater than any other warrior with battle awareness and an arrogance that actually works for him unlike Anakin. Achilles is far beyond any real life warrior just as Anakin is but the point is without his weapons breaking or being destroyed against Anakin's superior weaponry his skill and awareness as a warrior gives him the nod here.
You can give him lightsaber resistant weapons and remove Anakin's active force powers as long as you want - it doesn't change the fact, that Anakin's passive force abilities (boost of physical attributes, precognition) as well as his mechanical arm and an almost weightless blade with a reach advantage on Achilles, would be enough to win this fight.
Achilles also has superhuman abilities. Look in this topic. I haven't even begun yet and look at the various posters all calling Achilles superhuman.
http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,237191.0.html
Appeal to majority, logical fallacy. I have proven that nothing he does is actually superhuman and everybody with the slightes insight in melee combat and armed combat in general, will tell you just the same.
Your out refusal to admit the plain obvious truth shows you simply are downplaying this character simply for Anakin to get the win. Both are superhuman so let it go. Achilles can definitely defeat the upper crust of the sith after a long fight. Especially considering a shield is something none of them are used to going up against.
Really? Did you, by chance, miss the fully shielded Droidekas that all Jedi did combat for three years between AotC and RotS. I'm just asking. I bet circumventing a 360° shield requires more effort than dealing with a normal one.
And seriously: Without the outright nerfs for Anakin and boost for Achilles introduced in your start posting, there wouldn't even be a debate here. If we were allowed to include the EU, there wouldn't be a debate here. If we would accept the TV show as canon, there wouldn't be any debate here. If you would accept the on screen demonstrations of the Jedis abilities, there wouldn't be a debate here.
No, as I have shown you in the link without any persuasive awesomeness done on my account9man I am really great, huh) we see multiple people claiming he's superhuman. Saying he isn't is really closing your eyes and just pretending the feats done by Achilles are possible by a highly trained warrior. Achilles was simply beyond any great warrior and the film showed more than just one or two. Achilles is simply on another level and a level that can and will defeat the crybaby of the Sith, Anakin.
Appeal to majority, logical fallacy. Already dealt with that crap.
I made a thread in which their skills decide the fight. That's making it fair unless you think guys with ancient weaponry have a chance against a light saber just relax and chill. For me and the kids. I imagine most people are chanting Quanchi as I am delivering you the business.
So the ability to use the force isn't part of Anakin's skills? 🙂
And I imagine that many people are chanting "Quanchi", too. Just in my imagination, they usually at a "Get lost" or "You suck" in front of it. 🙂
No everybody hasn't and earlier you said the majority doesn't matter now it suddenly becomes all important.
Oh. You see. I'm not trying to make a point for my side, by citing the majority. I'm merely attempting to get you in contact with reality again.
Listen maybe in germany you're a big deal but I'm from the U. S. of A. jack and I won't take kindly to you invading my thread. Besides your biggest fan that Neph guy I won't I refuse to show you quarter. Now surrender or continue your humiliation at my hand.
You're clearly insane. Makes it all the more entertaining for me. I'll be back with some popcorn and a coke tomorrow.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He never even cut his skin yet you're claiming he almost slit his throat.... 😂Achilles tosses his shield after he easily catches and blocks a strike from Hector in which he falls over a rock. Achilles pissed off Hector is hurt so he tosses his shield and gives him the time to gather himself.
Yes, he toyed with Hector and once he cut his breastplate he figured enough was enough. End game.
Achilles' skin was never even cut yet you claim this fight was close in the regard he almost killed Achilles. Never change, ron.
Achilles moved back at the last moment and the sword grazed his chest-piece instead of opening his throat, genius. It was more than Achilles expected though, hence that look on his face that someone almost managed to kill him.
Now you're arguing agaibst Achilles' own words of 'I'll not have a rock steal my glory', figures.
More nonsense, what happened in the fight supersedes what you imagined. Crying nonsense won't change the film.
K, found an HD video.
The speed of the spear thrown is 1340-1550-ish km/h (waaaaay faster than my eye-ball estimate).
That's faster than Anakin can reasonably react to based on the other showings we've seen that overwhelmed other Jedi Masters.
I also did a strikes per second: I found the "fastest" 5 second "strikes" period from both films (I did the Anakin vs. Obi Wan and the Hector vs. Achilles fights).
7 for Anakin and 15 for Achilles.
Based on those measures, achilles has a good chance of winning against a battle-precog Anakin if Anakin is gimped (he is...in this thread).
Discuss.
imetu...ihu