Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
thing got blasted by alternate no name guys were colosus was blasted by THE 616 THE DREAMING CELESTIAL. whome galactus on panel fears.Tiamut would one shot these guys including galactus
No, wrong.
Because the Tiamut in Uncanny who was so powerful a de-powered Magneto was able to reconstitute its body and function as its nervous system after it disintegrated?
Originally posted by dmills
Celestials communicate and interact with each other from various dimensions etc. There is no such distinctions as 616 celestials, 3124 celestials etc. To them they are all just celestials that operate in various parts of time/space. Unless that Gotg explanation has been retconned.
DNA said its non canon
Remember and Tiamut is correct....Celestials cannot b destroyed
That is a remarkable feat
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
thing got blasted by alternate no name guys were colosus was blasted by THE 616 THE DREAMING CELESTIAL. whome galactus on panel fears.Tiamut would one shot these guys including galactus
Sorry, those no-name Celestials pwned Franklin and got the best of Galactus, and Tiamut was disassembled by Mr. Sinister and as someone said, Magneto managed to invert his feedback. So yeah... Thing rocks.
Originally posted by guy222
DNA said its non canonRemember and Tiamut is correct....Celestials cannot b destroyed
That is a remarkable feat
Non Canon? That doesn't make a lick of sense seeing as that when Star-lord used the celestial engine it was to send a message to the guardians in the 616. A message that they in fact acted on.
When did they say this?
The fact this is a different writer. The fact that they are speaking at all just goes against their usual cosmic aloofness that has been shown in the past and The fact that the THING survived a Celestial blast when once upon a time the Celestials showed they could cut off all access routes between Earth and the realms of the gods with a mere thought. These are JobberLestials.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Do you have any proof that these Celestials arent the equal of their 616 counterparts?
Originally posted by Bentley
Sorry, those no-name Celestials pwned Franklin and got the best of Galactus, and Tiamut was disassembled by Mr. Sinister and as someone said, Magneto managed to invert his feedback. So yeah... Thing rocks.
Not quite. The Celestials actually appeared somewhat frightened/disturbed by Franklin in their initial encounter. They, in fact, referred to him as a "harbinger" of destruction and proceeded to attack him with concussion beams. In reply, Franklin simply transformed the blasts into harmless flowers. This clearly alarmed one or more of the aforementioned Celestials; so they resorted to a psychological tactic. They entered his mind and tried to convince him that he will outlive his loved ones, remaining in isolation for eternity. Franklin was apparently pretty shaken up by the mere thought of that idea. As such, he expelled the psychic attack from his mind. The ordeal left him a little drained for the moment, but he recovered quickly. Far from owned in my book. Let's see how the "space gods" fare against the adult Franklin in the latest installment of FF.
As for Galactus, yes, the Celestials got the best of him, but he obviously put up a good fight. Moreover, it took four of them to defeat him.
Originally posted by dmills
Celestials communicate and interact with each other from various dimensions etc. There is no such distinctions as 616 celestials, 3124 celestials etc. To them they are all just celestials that operate in various parts of time/space. Unless that Gotg explanation has been retconned.
Agreed.
Originally posted by lilshogun
The fact this is a different writer. The fact that they are speaking at all just goes against their usual cosmic aloofness that has been shown in the past and The fact that the THING survived a Celestial blast when once upon a time the Celestials showed they could cut off all access routes between Earth and the realms of the gods with a mere thought. These are JobberLestials.
When writing extremely powerful characters, you have to do it with a certain degree of restraint. Realistically, characters like the Celestials or Franklin can warp their opponents into dust -- end of story. Realistically, Superman can take down Batman without so much as blinking. That said, where's the fun in that? If you want to write a compelling story, you have to give the weaker opponents a fighting chance. Otherwise, it all becomes boring. Comic and sci-fi authors often complain about writing overly powerful characters; they often shy away from doing so for the reaons mentioned above. I give Hickman props for tackling powerhouses head on though.
But there will be down of things. The FF pick up the slack and use a sun gun to disrupt the A Mega Celestial 4 fusion. Leaving the team to deal with 3 Celestial's once again. The shredded remains of the 4th Celestial are strewn about then Ben takes a massive blast from a Celestial and lives to tell the story. Suzy manages to damage the arm of one to no avail and Reed just gets knocked out. I give him props for creativity and entertainment.
Originally posted by Doon
When writing extremely powerful characters, you have to do it with a certain degree of restraint. Realistically, characters like the Celestials or Franklin can warp their opponents into dust -- end of story. Realistically, Superman can take down Batman without so much as blinking. That said, where's the fun in that? If you want to write a compelling story, you have to give the weaker opponents a fighting chance. Otherwise, it all becomes boring. Comic and sci-fi authors often complain about writing overly powerful characters; they often shy away from doing so for the reaons mentioned above. I give Hickman props for tackling powerhouses head on though.
Another indication weaker vs stronger celestials dilema can be made is that we do not know what type of Celestials they are. Are they renegades?, lower end units? Right now, I question their power set compared to 616. The whole of the celestial mythos completely undone by two of them being unable to take out Johnny Storm with a double hit. I will just wait and see how this unfolds.
Originally posted by vince_slice
Yup.Just because a character is from an alternate reality doesn't mean we should automatically assume he or she is weaker than their 616 counterpart. For example Mar-Vell from the Cancerverse is much stronger than his 616 counterpart. Assuming alternate reality automatically = weaker is a fallacy unless there's solid evidence or proof to justify it.
If there is no evidence that an alternate reality character is weaker (or stronger) then I think its reasonable to assume they're roughly equal to their 616 counterpart more or less.
Originally posted by vince_slice
Yup.Just because a character is from an alternate reality doesn't mean we should automatically assume he or she is weaker than their 616 counterpart. For example Mar-Vell from the Cancerverse is much stronger than his 616 counterpart. Assuming alternate reality automatically = weaker is a fallacy unless there's solid evidence or proof to justify it.
If there is no evidence that an alternate reality character is weaker (or stronger) then I think its reasonable to assume they're roughly equal to their 616 counterpart more or less.
More Examples:
King Hyperion was stronger then other Hypes
Cancerverse Quasar was confirmed to be every bit as powerful as his 616 counterpart.
Galactus is as up and down in alt realities as he is in 616.
Some Alt reality Gladiators seem to be somewhat superior to 616.
Nova prime 0:0 was more powerful then Nova prime 616, as are a few other alt reality Nova Primes.
Ultimate Cap us physically superior to 616 cap
Ultimate Thing, Namor, Colossus, all superior to 616 versions
Mc2 Surfer and Exiles Surfer are probably Superior to the 616 version (or perhaps just less inhibited)
ad nauseum infinitum. And I won't even go into alt reality DC characters as compared to some of their main Earth counterparts.
How would you determine if they are stronger than their counterparts?
Originally posted by dmills
More Examples:King Hyperion was stronger then other Hypes
Cancerverse Quasar was confirmed to be every bit as powerful as his 616 counterpart.
Galactus is as up and down in alt realities as he is in 616.
Some Alt reality Gladiators seem to be somewhat superior to 616.
Nova prime 0:0 was more powerful then Nova prime 616, as are a few other alt reality Nova Primes.
Ultimate Cap us physically superior to 616 cap
Ultimate Thing, Namor, Colossus, all superior to 616 versions
Mc2 Surfer and Exiles Surfer are probably Superior to the 616 version (or perhaps just less inhibited)
ad nauseum infinitum. And I won't even go into alt reality DC characters as compared to some of their main Earth counterparts.
Originally posted by lilshogun
But there will be down of things. The FF pick up the slack and use a sun gun to disrupt the A Mega Celestial 4 fusion. Leaving the team to deal with 3 Celestial's once again. The shredded remains of the 4th Celestial are strewn about then Ben takes a massive blast from a Celestial and lives to tell the story. Suzy manages to damage the arm of one to no avail and Reed just gets knocked out. I give him props for creativity and entertainment.
Yeah, I agree there's some definite inconsistency on Hickman's part. Overall, he's still one of the best writers the book has seen in quite some time though. As for the "sun gun", weapons of this nature have been around in comics forever. Some examples: The ultimate nullifier, infinity gauntlet, heart of the universe, etc.