Phoenix vs Onslaught

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
1) They dont need to state that she used tk. I long ago was man enough and humble enough to say her amputation of the HCT timeline wasnt specified to involve tk so why you are still blabbing on about that i dont know. Got nothing else to say? Plus its not like the Phoenix only has telekinesis, according to her profile and on panel appearances she can generate any energy in any amount. We no longer need to focus on what power she used to amputate the future, we know she did 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
2) The handbooks dont contradict me in the slightest. One says she disinfected reality and altered the past, thats true.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
3)Ummm. But what you dont seem to get is that since HCT no longer exists in the multiverse, since the official word is that it was severed from it, then we know that where she referred to amputating the future Jean was being literal. The fact that it never remained as a divergent reality says it all. Once again via handbook, on panel statement from Jean and the consequences of her actions you know that in the instance where she said she had amputated the future, she meant literally.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jeans mission was to remove the bacterial infection from reality, to disinfect it. To disinfect is to free from infection. She freed reality from infection by 1st removing Sublime from Beast and when the infection was still too much she just amputated that reality. Rendering her disinfection mission successful. The Phoenix does not equate the terms disinfect and amputate thats your assumption/fabrication once again. It merely congratulates her on a completed objective. 👇

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The other instance where she QUESTIONS if Sublime is the future she is told that is not the case and you admit that Sublime isnt literally the future, so the fact that the actual future was removed should be enough to end this argument.

And of course it's not meant to be literal. Neither was the first time she mentioned "future"! You have no justification to think otherwise. Except for you wanting Jean to have a universal tk feat on... time. Something that isn't shown on-panel, something never mentioned by ANY handbooks. Something that requires you to completely ignore that Jean refers to Sublime as "future" when she says it twice within two panels. Jesus wept.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Pride is a powerful driving force i see.

Now i really am gonna have a nap for now. Youre boring me to death death

Seriously, I hope you go to sleep 2 hours after declaring you would. No need to be kept up by your delusions being shattered. It's comics. Go away.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Just like when Katherine Pryde from days of future past travelled back in time and possessed 616 Kittys body to change her future she went bk to her timeline to find nothing had changed.

And how AOA is still around despite Bishops past alteration. 👆

What happened to Here Comes Tomorrow? 😖hifty:

@OneDumbG0 and GS

One last one from me for today. It seems that it's been confirmed multiple times on panel by different writers that you can't just go back in time or remove something from a universe willy-nilly and expect to change the future or reality in general (the best you can do is cause a divergent reality).

Here is another one from the Fantastic Four, Reed states that their only chance is to use the UN to wipe that entire future from the timeline.

They give it to Galactus, he fires it off and it's successful.

So we have two cases where a possible future was not only averted but done away with all together. It took the UN wielded by Galactus for one and Jean/PF for the other. So it's still a damn impressive feat.

^ Jean wasn't trying to change the Here Comes Tomorrow future though. It stayed Here Comes Tomorrow. She tried (and succeeded) in making sure that the events that led to it never happened in 616, i.e., Scott loses all hope. In 616, Scott doesn't lose all hope. That, we agree on.

And that's what also happened with Kitty in Days of Future Past. Kitty did try to change the Days of Future Past future, yes. It stayed Days of Future past, true. But she tried (and succeeded) in making sure that the events that led to it never happened in 616, i.e., assassination of Senator Kelly by Brotherhood. In 616, Senator Kelly doesn't get assassinated by Brotherhood.

What I mean by "change the future" is making sure that 616 doesn't evolve into the alternate universe's futures. And obviously, that occurs a lot, including in Here Comes Tomorrow.

People avert futures all the time from happening to the main reality. You can argue that Here Comes Tomorrow was done away altogether by... tk???? But that wasn't portrayed on-panel at all. The removal/amputation of the future = disinfection/extraction of Sublime. That's what she meant by that phrase when you read what they're talking about in context and when you read the handbooks. That's also what she clearly did on-panel. And what also clearly happened on-panel, was the future got replaced with a better one via Jean's manipulation of Scott.

All that has happened here is you have had a "eureka!" moment and believe that by putting emphasis on you saying that Jean was merely trying to avert the events that lead to 616 that this whole argument was over. THING AGAIN! 😱 😂

Ive already shattered your argument so i can handle your reiterated waffle in a series of brief points 🙂

A lot happened in the 150 years between the HCT trigger point (Scotts negative reaction to Emma) and the end of the timeline we saw in New X-men 154:

Sublime made a breakthrough and adapted to affect mutants

Sublime consolidated his power on the planet

Most importantly, Sublime gained the power of the Phoenix mutation.

All prior to this controversial amputation moment.

So lets really get to crux of this lesson. 🙂

Jeans mission as Phoenix was to not only remove the threat of Sublime from reality, to disinfect it, but also to remove the conditions in which he managed to gain such a stronghold.

By merely removing Sublime at the end of that 150 year duration that was HCT reality and then going on to change the past, Sublime with the power of the Phoenix still exists within reality. D'OH bangin

Furthermore if thats all that she did, the Here Comes Tomorrow future reality would still exist in the multiverse as a divergent reality if as per your flawed and officially denied interpretation in both instances of the "future" reference Jean was referring to Sublime 🙂

So try as you might to deflect by focusing on the fact that its not stated to be achieved by telekinesis (irrelevant, the Phoenix can generate any energy/power by canon) so that you actually have more than one sentence to write

Try and ignore Jeans statement, the consequences of her actions and the handbook entry which all similarly reject your interpretation

But at the end of the day Sublime being the subject in question does NOT explain why the actual reality 15104 was severed from the multiverse

I does NOT explain why there is not a Phoenix powered Sublime running around in the multiverse.

So youre back where you started.

HCT the actual future doesnt exist in the multiverse anymore. WHY?!! 😱 😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Jean wasn't trying to change the Here Comes Tomorrow future though. It stayed Here Comes Tomorrow. She tried (and succeeded) in making sure that the events that led to it never happened in 616, i.e., Scott loses all hope. In 616, Scott doesn't lose all hope. That, we agree on.

And that's what also happened with Kitty in Days of Future Past. Kitty did try to change the Days of Future Past future, yes. It stayed Days of Future past, true. But she tried (and succeeded) in making sure that the events that led to it never happened in 616, i.e., assassination of Senator Kelly by Brotherhood. In 616, Senator Kelly doesn't get assassinated by Brotherhood.

What I mean by "change the future" is making sure that 616 doesn't evolve into the alternate universe's futures. And obviously, that occurs a lot, including in Here Comes Tomorrow.

People avert futures all the time from happening to the main reality. You can argue that Here Comes Tomorrow was done away altogether by... tk???? But that wasn't portrayed on-panel at all. The removal/amputation of the future = disinfection/extraction of Sublime. That's what she meant by that phrase when you read what they're talking about in context and when you read the handbooks. That's also what she clearly did on-panel. And what also clearly happened on-panel, was the future got replaced with a better one via Jean's manipulation of Scott.

All irrelevant.

Jeans mission as Phoenix is to perpetuate evolution, she does this by burning away that which does not work, that which is foreseen to impede evolution.

Simply removing Sublime from the end of an 150 year long timeline and then altering the past would leave a Phoenix powered bacterial colony hellbent on impeding evolution free to cause havoc within the multiverse.

That would NOT be a successful disinfection 😂

And waffle aside the fact remains that the HCT reality no longer exists within the multiverse. Stop waffling and address that point

Your interpretation states that when Jean extracted sublime from beast and she shifted into another location even though she then states because of the severity of the infection she had to resort to amputating the future that what she meant by "future" was Sublime even though following her statement as confirmed by the handbook the ACTUAL reality 15104 was severed (kinda like what happens in an amputation 😱 ) from the multiverse and all BEFORE she altered the past?

(Step 1. severed from the multiverse. Step 2. The past is altered)

Wanna kindly tell all of us on KMC how you remove a timeline by extracting some bacteria from Beast at the end of said timeline? 😖hifty:

Dont address me quote for quote deal with the discrepancies ive listed only:

If in both references to future Jean was referring to Sublime and wasnt being literal in either instance why was the actual future amputated like Jean said she did?

Why is there not a HCT reality that still exists in the multiverse as per previous past alteration instances with a Phoenix powered Sublime causing havoc? (GREAT disinfection 🙄 )

Your interpretation cant account for these points, it is rejected by a handbook entry whilst my interpretation CAN be interpreted from the scene and is not denied by any official marvel source.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All that has happened here is you have had a "eureka!" moment and believe that by putting emphasis on you saying that Jean was merely trying to avert the events that lead to 616 that this whole argument was over. THING AGAIN! 😱 😂

**events that lead to HCT** TYPO! 😱

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But at the end of the day Sublime being the subject in question does [B]NOT explain why the actual reality 15104 was severed from the multiverse

HCT the actual future doesnt exist in the multiverse anymore. WHY?!! 😱 😂 [/B]

and as much as i've been enjoying this little tete-a-tete, (much more enjoyable than the usual gs/masters scan blitz wars) this is really the only question that odg hasn't really been able to counter aside from saying it's a trope that's ignored as often as it is addressed. i'm not so sure about that. that future universe is gone--not diverged, not disinfected, but......gone. that is a pretty unique event. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
and as much as i've been enjoying this little tete-a-tete, (much more enjoyable than the usual gs/masters scan blitz wars) this is really the only question that odg hasn't really been able to counter aside from saying it's a trope that's ignored as often as it is addressed. i'm not so sure about that. that future universe is gone--not diverged, not disinfected, but......gone. that is a pretty unique event. 😬

Thank you ✅ 👆

Originally posted by leonidas
and as much as i've been enjoying this little tete-a-tete, (much more enjoyable than the usual gs/masters scan blitz wars) this is really the only question that odg hasn't really been able to counter aside from saying it's a trope that's ignored as often as it is addressed. i'm not so sure about that. that future universe is gone--not diverged, not disinfected, but......gone. that is a pretty unique event. 😬

And the future universe actually being amputated off of the timeline explains why the Force said that 616 was now wounded and had to be taken to "the hospital" the white hot room. Hence the universe in the palm of the hand feat followed by Jeans updated bio saying she could manipulate universal scale atomic structures 🙂

I love Grant Morrison 😂

He's ok

Love the Bird

And Onslaught loses to the Force

Originally posted by guy222
He's ok

Love the Bird

And Onslaught loses to the Force

I dont think any seasoned KMC poster doubted Phoenixes superiority to Onslaught. Mr Master sees the Phoenix Force as a threat to his fantasy hierarchy so after he once again tried to majorly demean the character to serve his fabrications, true to form i stepped in to correct him and then the thread kind of went off on a tangent subject wise.

But im just glad that i have proven Phoenixes casual destruction of the Here Comes Tomorrow universe feat, which in turn supports her 616 in the palm of the hand feat as amputating the HCT future timeline from 616 gives reason for 616 being wounded and necessitated Jean taking 616 into "the hospital" (The White Hot Room) to be healed as stated by the Phoenix Consciousness. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

I dont think any seasoned KMC poster doubted Phoenixes superiority to Onslaught. Mr Master sees the Phoenix Force as a threat to his fantasy hierarchy so after he once again tried to majorly demean the character to serve his fabrications, true to form i stepped in to correct him and then the thread kind of went off on a tangent subject wise.

You really are clown.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But im just glad that i have proven Phoenixes casual destruction of the Here Comes Tomorrow universe feat, which in turn supports her 616 in the palm of the hand feat as amputating the HCT future timeline from 616 gives reason for 616 being wounded and necessitated Jean taking 616 into "the hospital" (The White Hot Room) to be healed as stated by the Phoenix Consciousness.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

^ Jean wasn't trying to change the Here Comes Tomorrow future though. It stayed Here Comes Tomorrow. She tried (and succeeded) in making sure that the events that led to it never happened in 616, i.e., Scott loses all hope. In 616, Scott doesn't lose all hope. That, we agree on.

And that's what also happened with Kitty in Days of Future Past. Kitty did try to change the Days of Future Past future, yes. It stayed Days of Future past, true. But she tried (and succeeded) in making sure that the events that led to it never happened in 616, i.e., assassination of Senator Kelly by Brotherhood. In 616, Senator Kelly doesn't get assassinated by Brotherhood.

What I mean by "change the future" is making sure that 616 doesn't evolve into the alternate universe's futures. And obviously, that occurs a lot, including in Here Comes Tomorrow.

People avert futures all the time from happening to the main reality. You can argue that Here Comes Tomorrow was done away altogether by... tk???? But that wasn't portrayed on-panel at all. The removal/amputation of the future = disinfection/extraction of Sublime. That's what she meant by that phrase when you read what they're talking about in context and when you read the handbooks. That's also what she clearly did on-panel. And what also clearly happened on-panel, was the future got replaced with a better one via Jean's manipulation of Scott.

... and good lord you're battering Galactic Storm's fallacious fantasies
like a mote caught in a storm.

I'm accustomed to doing the same,
but gotta admit I love the style/lingo in which you do it.

Simple and put: One cannot manipulate reality (Space-Time) via atoms.

Atoms are physical particles,
while reality (Space-Time) are abstract concepts.

While it's 100% fact that Jean never held an actual reality in her hands,
even if she was able to supposedly manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale,
this would have to be physical matter (atoms)
in which case we're talking about the stuff within space-time (Galaxies, Stars, dust and gases etc)

but ...

Eternity (time) Infinity (space) which make up reality and whatever universe,
are not being warped/controlled/manipulated via atoms.

Not during HCT, not before, and not after.

-------------------------------------------------

This is what handling after re-structuring a Universe looks like:

Uatu is even able to place it in his chest piece for safe keeping.

sarcasticclap

Originally posted by Mr Master
durlaugh

You really are clown.

durznuts

👆

... and good lord you're battering Galactic Storm's fallacious fantasies
like a mote caught in a storm.

I'm accustomed to doing the same,
but gotta admit I love the style/lingo in which you do it.

Simple and put: One cannot manipulate reality (Space-Time) via atoms.

Atoms are physical particles,
while reality (Space-Time) are abstract concepts.

While it's 100% fact that Jean [b]never held an actual reality in her hands,
even if she was able to supposedly manipulate atomic structures on a universal scale,
this would have to be physical matter (atoms)
in which case we're talking about the stuff within space-time (Galaxies, Stars, dust and gases etc)

but ...

Eternity (time) Infinity (space) which make up reality and whatever universe,
are not being warped/controlled/manipulated via atoms.

Not during HCT, not before, and not after. [/B]

As Jean stated on panel and as verified by the handbook she amputated HCT from reality. She casually did away with a universe.

That point alone rubbishes ODG's entire interpretation, it hinged on that scene. So commiserations to him and especially to you who sought to use him as a crutch because your own shit gets torn apart everytime i log on 😱

As depicted on panel she then had telekinetic control of the universe in the palm of her hand followed up by an updated handbook bio confirming that fact. Whether you can understand it by your grasp of real world physics or not young man is irrelevant, its a comic book with comic book physics so you dont have to. Its official. Come to terms with that 🙂

Now unless you can explain to us what happened to the Here Comes Tomorrow reality then you really need to run along to the Marvel The End thread where i have made preparations to decimate the crap you are passing off as an argument.

Merry Xmas 😎

Originally posted by Mr Master

[b]Uatu is even able to place it in his chest piece for safe keeping.

sarcasticclap [/B]

After the conclusion of the limited series Marvel 1602 saw reality fixing itself and the alternate timeline earth 311 was basically destroyed, the high council of Watchers were able to save elements of said reality "crafted from the fringes of alternity" to form a little pocket universe as a gift to Uatu because he enjoyed watching that particular reality so much and was saddened to see the majority of it destroyed. Elements of a reality crafted from a dying alternate reality = pocket universe. A reality that is smaller in scale than a standard reality and not a part of the multiversal tree 🙄

Jean manipulated the atoms of 616, the core universe and that was just after casually dispatching reality 15104. 😮‍💨

I applaud your attempt Mr Master but once again you have come up short. Hopefully the festivities of this day will help you to overlook your loss.

Merry Xmas 😱 😂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

As Jean stated on panel and as verified by the handbook she amputated HCT from reality.

She casually did away with a universe.

"Casually" my ass.

It took prep, in fact, her friends had to die during the 7 pages of prep time Jean had.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

That point alone rubbishes ODG's entire interpretation, it hinged on that scene. So commiserations to him and especially to you who sought to use him as a crutch because your own gets torn apart everytime i log on

"sought to use him as a crutch" ... wtf?

So every time you quickly start praising anyone who agrees with you,
(in this thread ONE person)
this means you're using them as a "crutch" due to the same horse shit reasons
you're attempting to stamp on me?

You really are a lowlife hypocrite in my book, now and forever.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

As depicted on panel she then had telekinetic control of the
universe in the palm of her hand followed up by an updated
handbook bio confirming that fact.

It's clearly depicted on panel it was only Sublime she controlled atomically.

By the time the visualization of reality 15104 pops up in her hands,
Jean had already commented on her atomic feat,
in obvious reference to Sublime who she had just dealt with.

God is it really that difficult for ya?

Oh no that's right, it's just deliberate intransigence at work.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Whether you can understand it by your grasp of real world
physics or not young man is irrelevant, its a comic book with comic
book physics so you dont have to. Its official. Come to terms with
that

It's also official, that the Phoenix is just another concept,
essential to matter within reality, like all the abstracts serving a function,
to compliment a working Universe (Space-Time/Death-Oblivion/Galactus)

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Now unless you can explain to us what happened to the Here
Comes Tomorrow reality

Nothing happened to it, because it never happened.

Scott Summers (Cyclops) created the "Here Comes Tomorrow" universe (reality 15104)
by deciding to leave the X-Men in 616, this cause the divergence.

When Jean reached back into 616 (where & when Scott made his decision)
and she changed his mind about leaving the X-Men,
reality 15104 ceased to exist.

The power to alter Reality 15104 (Here Comes Tomorrow)
was always and only within Scott's decision.

Cyclops created reality 15104 ... Cyclops nullified reality 15104 via Jean's mind rape.

That's it, that is all of it.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

then you really need to run along to the Marvel The End thread
where i have made preparations to decimate the crap you are
passing off as an argument.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Merry Xmas

What a load of shit 😆

You cannot alter a future by changing a past event, that is marvel canon and a number of scans from both myself and zopzop have been posted within the last 3 pages that prove and state that fact explicitly. So good try. 👆

I do not need to argue with you in depth because ODG is considerably better than you and even he was left stumped.

It states on panel that Jean amputated HCT from reality and that was BEFORE she even altered the past. Something stated explicitly in the handbook thereby verifying it.

So Scott had nothing to do with the destruction of HCT by on panel statement and handbook statement. Scott played a part in replacing the HCT future after Phoenix controlled him to do so 🙂 All on panel all stated in the handbooks.

Thats all i need to say to you with regards to this. Its been argued to death and youre bringing nothing new that i havent discredited, youre irrelevant. 🙂

@GS

Exactly. I just want to know where that entire alternate reality/future went. As we've seen, on panel, it's not as easy as going back in time or otherwise interfering with reality that can cause that to happen.

The only thing other aside from Jean that has successfully accomplish this is the UN in the hands of someone who knows how to use it properly.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

After the conclusion of the limited series Marvel 1602 saw reality fixing itself and the alternate timeline earth 311 was basically destroyed, the high council of Watchers were able to save elements of said reality "crafted from the fringes of alternity" to form a little pocket universe as a gift to Uatu because he enjoyed watching that particular reality so much and was saddened to see the majority of it destroyed. Elements of a reality crafted from a dying alternate reality = pocket universe. A reality that is smaller in scale than a standard reality and not a part of the multiversal tree
[/B]

Reality 311 was never destroyed, it was preserved by the Council of Watchers.

That aside:

..............................................................................................

Earth 616: (616 Universe)

"Core Continuum designation given to the Prime Earth of the Marvel Universe,
Reality from which most Alternate Earths derive"

..............................................................................................

So, a Core Continuum designation (or number)
is given to the Universes of Marvel.

Cool ....

1602 (Alternate Universe)

"Core Continuum Designation: Earth 311"

hm

Hey, just like Here Comes Tomorrow (Alternate Universe)

"Core Continuum Designation: Earth 15104"

..............................................................................................

srugyellowshoes

Originally posted by zopzop
@GS

Exactly. I just want to know where that entire alternate reality/future went. As we've seen, [b]on panel, it's not as easy as going back in time or otherwise interfering with reality that can cause that to happen.

The only thing other aside from Jean that has successfully accomplish this is the UN in the hands of someone who knows how to use it properly. [/B]

Mr Master knows we're right.

Hes just mad cos i went into his Marvel: The End discussion thread, asked a few questions he cant answer now hes here for revenge 😂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Mr Master knows we're right.

Mr Master knows you are completely incorrect.

The shit that I've seen your one and only supporter post in other threads
is enough for me to see what level of knowledge pertaining to this stands by your side.

Therefore, it is hilarious to me the way you bust on yourself
when even clueless joes applaud you.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Hes just mad cos i went into his Marvel: The End discussion thread,
asked a few questions he cant answer now hes here for revenge

I wonder if you're like this in real life, you may survive with the Brits on that b*tch-like behavior,
in NYC, you'd get punched in the face daily though.

That's Leo's thread,
and I just participated in it and while you may wash this newbs eyes with your comedy,
the fact remains, you're a joke, and as soon as he realizes this,
he'll be owning you in debates as well.