Abraxas vs Dream of The Endless

Originally posted by Galan007
I think he has a good chance, personally.

Agreed. The evidence to the contrary thus far has been weak.

It all amounts to Franklin being scared of him and running away and Eternity being Eternity and not doing anything during the story arc 😬

He eroded dimensional barriers and killed a few alternate reality Galactuses in unknown off panel circumstances

None of this is enough to rank him significantly above Galactus especially given the fact that the editorial within one of the related issues says Abraxas is Galactus level power-wise

^ And the fact that 616 Galactus, a fella who has no problem acknowledging credible threats, called Abraxas "nothing" before gesturely snatching the UN from him.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying Abraxas is Galactus-level, but imo the aforementioned statement speaks volumes. /shrug

Plus it looked like Galactus hurt him when he ripped the UN away

Originally posted by Galan007

^ And the fact that 616 Galactus, a fella who has no problem
acknowledging credible threats, called Abraxas "nothing" before
gesturely snatching the UN from him.

the aforementioned statement speaks volumes.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb

Plus it looked like Galactus hurt him when he ripped the UN away

He said Abraxas was "nothing" ... (while summoning the UN)
and it makes sense since Abraxas didn't do anything in the story.

So what if Abraxas was outside 616 somewhere in the Multuverse
and he was still able to mind wiped and comatose Uatu the Watcher who was in 616.

So what if he upset the Multiversal Space-Time Continuum via altering realities,
oh wait, it was just planets, which makes sense cause that's something that would force Omniversal guardian Roma to prep for years to face him.

So what if he killed Omniversal guardian Roma effortlessly.

So what if he had universal warper Franklin terrified and running for dear life.

So what if he had the power of the Multiversal Space-Time
Continuum shook and helpless, but wait again, it was just planets
which makes sense cause a planetary power should make the
totality of Eternity/infinity helpless.

So what if was able to transcend his influence across All Realities simultaneously when he killed all of Reed's alternates.
I don't see how a planetary warper can do that, but whatever.

So what if it was made clear that ONLY the UN (or equal power)
could stop Abraxas, indeed a re-created Multiverse was in order
because Abraxas' planetary fiasco was taking a toll on the Multiverse.

😆

So, all that drivel aside.

Mighty Galactus: ...

Hey Bran, you think Nova hurt him here, or is he practicing for a movie role?

Jokes aside ....

It's beautiful ... ol' big G summons the UN from Abraxas' hands,
then Nova rips through G's head and the UN is no longer in the
hand of mr "you are nothing" ...

But of course,
this is something (or anything else) that Abraxas could not do, to G or Reed,
because while Abraxas may be ... what is it again?
... (oh yea, a planetary warper who can hit a sentient target on 616
and all its alternates across every Universe simultaneously)
Nova who can't even warp a city, should be able to though.

dur

I'm guessing yall don't see the PIS here to end the story.

So... Galactus never hurt Abraxas then?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Cyttorak's reality is outside 616.
Vishanti's reality is outside 616.
Asgard and Olympus, those are pocket realms.
Hell, another pocket realm.

This gives no reason at all to consider 616 Eternity being a Multiverse.

There's literally ten references to it being far more than universal.

It was even directly mentioned at-least five times that it was Multiversal.

"It always comes down to conquering the Universe,

[B]well ... Multiverse in my case"

-------------------------------

If the writers had Dormy only re-created 616,
it's doesn't take away from the power in possession.
Then again, it could be interpreted as the Multiverse indeed.

Dormy was also jobbering to ridiculous levels in that story.

There is no "multi" Eternity. So I can see why a writer wouldn't include that.

All the other references and direct statements cover the Multiverse issue.

Also,
just cause Dormy wasn't artistically shown controlling each
individual universe doesn't mean he did not, after all, that would be a daunting to ask to achieved artistically anyway, actually impossible.

No, we know Dormy/Umar were Multiversal because that's what the
writer repeated through out the story, across all the books.

All Eternities share the same consciousness.

When one speaks, it's as though all of them are speaking.

I remember the Reality Korvac nullified, an alternate universe.
Yet, when it spoke, it stated that this was one aspect of its totality.

Now, that sure wasn't 'Multi' ... or 616, or a Multiverse,
it was the singular reality Korvac lived in,
but it speaks as though it is the sum of All Eternity.

Simple, ... one consciousness ... spread across infinity.

I disagree.

616 Eternity contains numerous pocket dimensions/universes,
but not a single other entire universe.

That's cool true debater,
I'm glad your being reeled into this since I always enjoy your perspective.

You also make me work to win. 😠 [/B]

😂

ok. so, you think that all what if stories are different, individual universes, right? so each what if story is told within an individual eternity who is strictly made up of a single universe, the 'earth plane' and its pocket dimensions? and that no other universes (dormmy's dark dimension, cyttorak's universe, etc....) are parts of those other eternities? i disagree with that, but i want to be sure i'm understanding what you're saying here.

i agree that 616 eternity is special because all others (or at least all other divergent/what if ones) diverge from this one.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb

So... Galactus never hurt Abraxas then?

Originally posted by leonidas

😂

Originally posted by leonidas

ok. so, you think that all what if stories are different, individual
universes, right? so each what if story is told within an individual
eternity who is strictly made up of a single universe, the 'earth plane'
and its pocket dimensions? and that no other universes (dormmy's
dark dimension, cyttorak's universe, etc....) are parts of those other
eternities?

They have their own alternate versions of said characters.

Cyttorak is different though, to be honest I don't know how his shit works,
I do know for sure, that the Cyt that powers Juggs 616 is not within 616.

** EDIT* ... Actually Cyttorak was from 616 and then got booted out,
where he then became one with the Crimson Cosmos outside 616.

I remember clearly Strange & Co. traveling across universes go get to his.

Vishanti are also outside 616.

I also think these outer realities are pocket Universes.

Originally posted by leonidas

i agree that 616 eternity is special because all others (or at least
all other divergent/what if ones) diverge from this one.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So... Nova never hurt Galactus then? 😛

Nova flew threw his "ears" into his head. That's not going to feel nice for anyone, regardless of power difference. Wasp, and Hank do it all the time.

Abraxas was hurt from Galactus summoning the UN.

😂 I'm just saying that Galactus isn't one who, really ever, goes around referring to 'multiversal powers' as "nothing." He's never been too egotistic to acknowledge credible threats before.

Either way, if Abraxas were so much more powerful than Galactus, then I wouldn't think G would have been able to overpower Abraxas' hold on the UN at all... Let alone as easily as he did. Just MO.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb

What does that have to do with anything?

If Nova who was less than an insect next to Abraxas could do that,
what the phuck stopped Abraxas from not only doing (anything) similar or more,
not only to Galactus,
but how about Reed who managed to carry a small conversation with Abraxas.

Are you kidding me?

Abraxas wtf k.o Uatu from Universes away,
and Reed stands a chance of not only being fast enough to push down his thumb,
but to let out a single word before doing so let alone a mini monologue?

😐

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb

Nova flew threw his "ears" into his head. That's not going to feel nice for anyone, regardless of power difference. Wasp, and Hank do it all the time.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb

Abraxas was hurt from Galactus summoning the UN.

Galactus definitely feel a lot more what Nova did to him though.

Originally posted by Galan007

I'm just saying that Galactus isn't one who, really ever, goes
around referring to 'multiversal powers' as "nothing." He's never been
too egotistic to acknowledge credible threats before.

It was tough guy talk, to another tough guy who just threatened his life.

I mean what does that make Galactus then?

He was temporarily owned by Nova, brought down to his knees.

... bah, tough guy talk.

Originally posted by Galan007

Either way, if Abraxas were so much more powerful than
Galactus, then I wouldn't think G would have been able to
overpower Abraxas' hold on the UN at all... Let alone as easily as
he did. Just MO.

What are the other options again?

There were none, ... UN or nada.

Only one way out ...

Remember this word: Pis. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
It has to do with it being a PIS ending.

If Nova who was less than an insect next to Abraxas could do that,
what the phuck stopped Abraxas from not only doing (anything) similar or more,
not only to Galactus,
but how about Reed who managed to carry a small conversation with Abraxas.

Are you kidding me?

Abraxas wtf k.o Uatu from Universes away,
and Reed stands a chance of not only being fast enough to push down his thumb,
but to let out a single word before doing so let alone a mini monologue?

😐

😂

I wouldn't say he was hurt, but I keep it real, he definitely felt it.

Galactus definitely feel a lot more what Nova did to him though.

Plus, it just looked like it stunned Galactus for a second... until he obliterated all the Nova's. Abraxas screamed out. Slight difference there.

I don't see how you think this is PIS though. Galactus on his game is a scary force. When the big ace up the sleeve is using Franklin to exhaust himself to bring Galactus back, you know the writer thinks pretty highly of him.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'm 100% sure that Galactus did not mean Abraxas was "nothing" in the literal sense,
because that would make no sense.

It was tough guy talk, to another tough guy who just threatened his life.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Then how does the story end friend?

What are the other options again?

There were none, ... UN or nada.

Only one way out ...

Remember this word: [b]Pis. 🙂 [/B]

...Come to think of it, since the UN is "part" of Galactus, I suppose he WAS powerful enough to destroy Abraxas... In a sense. 🙂

At any rate, I'm not saying Galactus is on par with Abraxas, per se--but imo it can logically be viewed both ways, depending how highly you view 'rax.

Every once in a while someone articulates their thoughts so clearly that you can't possibly get any other meaning out of it.

Well done.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Every once in a while someone articulates their thoughts so clearly that you can't possibly get any other meaning out of it.

Well done.

Originally posted by Mr Master
😂

👆

They have their own alternate versions of said characters.

Cyttorak is different though, to be honest I don't know how his shit works,
I do know for sure, that the Cyt that powers Juggs 616 is not within 616.

** EDIT* ... Actually Cyttorak was from 616 and then got booted out,
where he then became one with the Crimson Cosmos outside 616.

I remember clearly Strange & Co. traveling across universes go get to his.

Vishanti are also outside 616.

I also think these outer realities are pocket Universes.

👆

all right, i disagree with what you're saying but i get it at least. i'm not sure how you reconcile any 'what if' story that has these other beings in them though. let's use the vishanti as an example. if they exist outside of eternity, and any 'what if' story is simply another version of an eternity, how do alternate vishanti appear? when a divergence occurs, do you think a whole other MULTIVERSE is created? if JUST eternity is being created in these divergences, how to these other beings you say exist outside of him, have alternates?

here is just one example. i think it also serves (imo) to show that even alternate eternities can be seen as multiverses, like in that dr strange scan we discussed earlier:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/36594554.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/845/24040833.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/f/689/39611003.jpg/

strange passes through space/time/dream etc, to arrive at a world beyond everything where he meets.....the consciousness of eternity.

now, imo, that makes perfect sense because every version of eternity can be seen as a multiverse unto themself. 616 is still unique in that it spawned these alternate eternities. but these divergent eternities ALSO contain alternate crimson cosmos, realms of the vishanti, etc.... (vishanti obviously exist in that alternate universe).

even here--in the famous ff annual that zop loves to bring up all the time--eternity is said to be the sum of ALL THINGS. and the vishanti were mentioned by name specifically, a couple pages prior to this.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/fantasticfourannual2352.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/fantasticfourannual2353.jpg/

again, imo, the vishanti, dormammu's realm, cytorrak's, etc.... are all part of EVERY eternity. call their realms 'other worlds', dimensions, pocket universes, whatever. when eternity is remade via divergance, all of them appear along with him. that implies to me they are part of him. and the vishanti in particular seem part of him because agamotto was the first sorcerer supreme and oshtur was just an elder god--both were definitely born OF eternity. how could they exist outside him?

order and chaos are another example. they represent order and chaos within eternity. why would their realm exist OUTSIDE him? shrug

supposing all these places exist outside eternity really overcomplicates things imo. if you have definite proof i'll be happy to see it and change my views.

as far as there being no 'multi' entity. not sure about that. seems cap universe believed there was. and that entity was simply the accumulation of all the eternities that exist. do they share a common consciousness? that's pretty speculatory, imo, but who knows.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thank you, bran. Thank you.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I was talking about this new young hotshot go getter here, but sure, I could have been talking about you too...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Every once in a while someone articulates their thoughts so clearly that you can't possibly get any other meaning out of it.

Well done.

huh. i'm not quite sure i get what he was saying. 😐