Dunno about that based what I see, Reed just restored a Universe not the whole entire MU. So they are a universe within a universe. However that is more hyperbole than anything.
Originally posted by zopzop
Oh I know. That's why I included 616 Reed feats like using the UN to reshape/restore the entire multiverse and having personal tech that accomplishes what alt reality IGs and Starbrands failed to do.
616 Reed is just a tool. Anyhow, Abraxas is pretty much on the level of Galactus, not Eternity/Infinity. The Resurrection of Galactus arc was very odd and disjointed. Not a very good read for not a very good villain. Abraxas top feats were off panel killings of Galactus'.
Originally posted by Galan007
Kay. Still doesn't apply to 616 Reed in any way/shape/form.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Abraxas was casually warping entire universes across the Multiverse without effort.Abraxas mind wiped Uatu, (a Watcher)
stole half his emblem
and comatose him from universeS away.
He also incinerated Surfer from universeS away.Abraxas killed a specific target (every alternate Reed)
across all realities with a thought, while simultaneously killing 616 Reed slowly.Abraxas also killed an unknown number of alternate Galactuses across the Multiverse.
Abraxas had universal warper Franklin terrified and helpless,
he also had the power of the Multiversal Space-Time Continuum afraid
and helpless.*** In the story,
it was also a fact that nothing short of UN-like power could stop Abraxas.Abraxas being the anti-thesis
to the power of the Multiversal Space-Time Continuum (Eternity/Infinity)
it makes perfect sense why a weapon that can erase and re-create anew the 616 Multiverse
was need to defeat him.
some of the above points i would disagree with, or at least interpret differently than you have, like i'd disagree with that dormammu scan you posted. we've been over this before, but i do not in any way see that as multi-eternity, but rather just the same eternity that dormammu faced previously. 😬
abraxas was clearly meant to be uber. just how uber was not clearly defined imo. i don't think he has any real place in forum fights.
Originally posted by leonidassome of the above points i would disagree with, or at least
interpret differently than you have, like i'd disagree with that
dormammu scan you posted. we've been over this before, but i do
not in any way see that as multi-eternity, but rather just the same
eternity that dormammu faced previously
That aside, yes, we been through this before, and I'm still 100%
confident it was the power of the Multiversal Space-Time Continuum that
Dormy witnessed.
It's not the first time we see Eternity presented in such a grandiose state.
Strange also witnessed Eternity holding entire UniverseS,
Past, Present & Future in one hand:
He knows well:
"Eternity IS A GOD! He is ...
the complete embodiment of everyone and everything ...
... on All levels of Creation"
pretty sure i'm the one that showed you that first strange scan. you asked me where i got it. 🙂 and yeah, that was regular old eternity in that scan, NOT multi-eternity as it was before multi was even thought of.
the second scan merely reiterates the first. in that defenders arc, eternity even mentions having met dormammu before. still don't see how you take 2 such disparate arcs as that defenders arc and that ff arc and come up with the same character being in each. especially when multi eternity is never named in that defenders arc. in fact, outside that ff arc, HAS the term multi-eternity ever been used....? 😕
Originally posted by leonidas
the second scan merely reiterates the first. in that defenders arc, eternity even mentions having met dormammu before. still don't see how you take 2 such disparate arcs as that defenders arc and that ff arc and come up with the same character being in each. especially when multi eternity is never named in that defenders arc. in fact, outside that ff arc, HAS the term multi-eternity ever been used....? 😕
Even though Dormammu mentions seeing Universes inside Eternity? 😕
And even if Dormammu said that this is but the merest of fraction of what Eternity is? 😕
Originally posted by Igniz
Even though Dormammu mentions seeing Universes inside Eternity? 😕
the first scan ALREADY confirms that eternity (singular) is comprised of universeS..... 😕
And even if Dormammu said that this is but the merest of fraction of what Eternity is? 😕
well, i could turn that question around--if he were actually speaking of multi-eternity and said that, would the comment make anymore sense? i think it would make even less. what more COULD there be if he were referencing multi-eternity?
just look at the evidence:
(a) we know eternity (singular) is made of universeS. (on panel)
(b) we know dormmy once confronted eternity, and this meeting is actually REFERENCED by eternity in that same arc.
(c) dormmy actually (through pis) CONQUERED the eternity entity in that arc
(d) multi is never mentioned by name
now we're supposed to just suppose that the entity is multi, and that he remembers dormmy because one infinitesimally small portion of him once confronted him? we're also supposed to ignore the fact that multi was never mentioned and simply except (without a shred of proof) that dormmy ACTUALLY took over the ENTIRE MULTIVERSE (ruled all alternate dimensions, etc)? only to lose--again--to strange and the defenders.
yeah, i'm afraid that is something that i will NEVER be convinced of.
Originally posted by zopzop
Ok, so you have ZERO proof he's multiversal. Got it.Dream is just ONE of the many conceptual beings that make up a universe. Multi-Eternity, NOT ETERNITY (the "jobber king"😉, MULTI-ETERNITY is entirety of the multiverse and EVERYTHING in it. This being was powerless against Abraxas. I don't get what's so hard to understand. Dream is just one of MANY conceptual beings that exist within a universe. Multi-Eternity is the MULTIVERSE and everything in it. This is stated on panel.
Regarding the "7 year old". This "7 year old" was holding off Rogue Celestials. These beings were in a panic and called him "beyond Omega level" and a "universal level Shaper". These same beings were ONE SHOTTING Infinity Gauntlet users and ignoring attacks from a Starbrand user.
Dream is completely out of his league here.
hey good friend
have u read some issues with dream
franklin is quite powerful celestials made the right call regarding him as a peer
Originally posted by leonidaspretty sure i'm the one that showed you that first strange scan.
you asked me where i got it.
I have that issue and cropped it myself.
Originally posted by leonidasand yeah, that was regular old eternity in that scan,
NOT multi-eternity as it was before multi was even thought of.
It goes to show how the totality of Eternity is a cosmic powerhouse indeed.
btw. not "regular" Eternity, but 616 Eternity.
Originally posted by leonidasthe second scan merely reiterates the first. in that defenders
arc, eternity even mentions having met dormammu before. still
don't see how you take 2 such disparate arcs as that defenders arc
and that ff arc and come up with the same character being in each.
especially when multi eternity is never named in that defenders arc.
in fact, outside that ff arc, HAS the term multi-eternity ever been
used....?
There's just "All of Eternity" or Eternity's "Totality"
and the core, or heart of this power is centered in 616.
They're all the same Eternity:
Eternity's 616 bio takes credit for all this shit ...
(the Dr Strange scan)
To Abraxas, to Atlez/Atleza arc, to THOTI, to Entropy/Genis,
and finally to the Dormammu/Umar story ...
They are all the same Eternity (616)
the original central belly from which everything flows.
Originally posted by leonidasthe first scan ALREADY confirms that eternity (singular) is comprised of universeS.....
How could a singular Universe be comprised of entire Universes
with pasts, present, and futures?
Leo, you're scarring me.
Originally posted by leonidaswell, i could turn that question around--if he were actually
speaking of multi-eternity and said that, would the comment make anymore sense? i think it would make even less. what more
COULD there be if he were referencing multi-eternity?just look at the evidence:
(a) we know eternity (singular) is made of universeS. (on panel)
(b) we know dormmy once confronted eternity, and this meeting is
actually REFERENCED by eternity in that same arc.
(c) dormmy actually (through pis) CONQUERED the eternity entity in that arc
(d) multi is never mentioned by namenow we're supposed to just suppose that the entity is multi, and
that he remembers dormmy because one infinitesimally small
portion of him once confronted him? we're also supposed to ignore
the fact that multi was never mentioned and simply except (without
a shred of proof) that dormmy ACTUALLY took over the ENTIRE
MULTIVERSE (ruled all alternate dimensions, etc)? only to lose--
again--to strange and the defenders.yeah, i'm afraid that is something that i will NEVER be convinced of.
... but I completely disagree,
not with everything you've posted here,
but with the logic your pasting together.
Originally posted by zopzop
Dude, Dream is JUST ONE OF THE MANY CONCEPTS that make up a universe. Even IF he's multiversal (no proof offered as of yet but whatever), he's not the TOTALITY of the multiverse. He's just one aspect out of many.Multi-Eternity is the TOTALITY of the MULTIVERSE and EVERYTHING in it. Is that so hard to understand?
Those Rogue Celestials were in fear of him. You saw the scans and you still arguing?
And what did Dream do to Ultimator? He talked him to sleep after Mxy tped him into Dream's realm. Then Mxy sealed him up. Some feat.
Dream is Multiversal, you see this in how he's got authority in ANY universe (For instance he pretty much shows that Boss Smiley, the local god of a whole universe, that he can do nothing to him)
Add to the fact he's called the mainstream DCU a "little universe" and it was implied that through Dreams, the entirity of creation was nullified and rebuilt so that the "previous" creation never even existed.
Originally posted by leonidas
now we're supposed to just suppose that the entity is multi, and that he remembers dormmy because one infinitesimally small portion of him once confronted him?
Just curious as to what makes you think that it was only a infinitely small portion that confronted Doramammu in the Strange Tales series.
That,
and considering I think their tagging this bad boy as something lesser:
"Multi" Eternity was the term Captain Universe dubbed "All of Eternity"
or Eternity's "Totality"
which is a consciousness that spans everything that ever was, is
or ever will be on the Marvel side concerning Space-Time (Reality)
and everything in-between.
Eternity/Infinity has always been one central Universe that
kills/births alternate/parallel realities resembling the prime one. (616)
It began with one Universe (616)
and it's been expanding ever since into endless alternatives of 616.
In the end, it's still just one big ass Universe. Labeled the Omniverse.
.............................................................................................
Dormammu gets ready to travel to Eternity's core, which is inside the 616 reality:
"All of Eternity's power will be mine ...
I go now into the mystery of Eternity ...
the power of Creation itself"
.............................................................................................
He transcends from the Dimension of Manifestations, into the 616 Reality.
What is the power of 616 Eternity/Infinity?
"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that ALL This -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is,
the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies,
I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,
Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS"
.............................................................................................
Is this a surprise?
not at all.
.....................................................................................................
616 Reality/Eternity = the foundation of the Marvel Omniverse!
.....................................................................................................
This is why this can happen:
.....................................................................................................
Uatu and the Watchers realized
that nanoseconds after the 616 Reality dies,
the Omniverse will die:
"We concluded that the destruction of This Universe,
while still bounded by the speed of light,
would occur within an expanding simultaneity, which would,
paratemporally, have begun immediately following the initial
nanoseconds of This Universe.
And then it would Expand outward from This Universe ...
we call it 616 ... to engulf All Others ... "
..................................................................................
Dr Stange is confused with Uatu's explanation,
so Uatu tells him in plain engilsh the fact concerning the significance
of the 616 Reality:
"If your World Dies now, Stephen, it will take Everything with it.
Not only This Universe (616) but All the Other UniverseS as well.
Everything there is, will End.
Or rather put it even more simply, Everything will never have been"
..................................................................................
Is this a fluke? Not at all folks.
..................................................................................
Here we are in yet another title where the same thing is stated,
by Ute: (another Watcher)
"Or THIS, the Prime Reality (616) will fall and with it ... ALL EXISTENCE"
Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Dream is Multiversal, you see this in how he's got authority in ANY universe (For instance he pretty much shows that Boss Smiley, the local god of a whole universe, that he can do nothing to him)Add to the fact he's called the mainstream DCU a "little universe" and it was implied that through Dreams, the entirity of creation was nullified and rebuilt so that the "previous" creation never even existed.
That still doesn't change the fact that he's just ONE abstract being out of the MANY that make up the multiverse. Multi-Eternity is the abstract being that respresents the multiverse and EVERYTHING in it. Do you at get what I'm trying to say concerning that?
