Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Revan has an entirely unique ability to generate Force lightning storms of considerable power during the fight. This is also referenced by the Rakata at Lehon. Secondly, he's the only character in the game to use TK to pull debris the size of Buicks on top of the player characters. You can argue it didn't happen in cutscene, but the fact remains that they deliberately scripted and made graphics and sounds for this specific event which is replicated nowhere else.
Was any of this at all depicted in a cutscene?
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The intention of the game creators seems to be "Revan is fokkin' badass with the Force." Therefore, unless I was completely biased against Revan, I'd be inclined to consider this as representative of his power in relation to other Force users.
I'm not sure basing arguments on creative intent is a wise decision. Think of all the arguments we could make about other characters. Sounds like a slope of unparalleled slipperiness*.
*obligatory joke about Neph's mom
Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
Was any of this at all depicted in a cutscene?I'm not sure basing arguments on creative intent is a wise decision. Think of all the arguments we could make about other characters. Sounds like a slope of unparalleled slipperiness*.
*obligatory joke about Neph's mom
None of the battle takes place via cutscene. Therefore, I can only either say "not enough info to be conclusive" (which would apply to pretty much any media out of the movies era) or "I believe based on the deliberate showcasing of his Force abilities, the hearsay from KotOR, and the prose of Revan and the Bane novels that Revan's Force mastery appears to excel Dooku's. It's almost certainly greater in scope."
I realize that doesn't fit your worldview, but lump it.
Revan was admitting by himself that he didn't mind using both light and dark powers.
The book description of that blast of power in its purest form is rather horrible. Where light powers came from, what was the source of dark powers at that moment? It was left unknown. In all other books emotions are described instead but that writer was writing from game perspective, where light and dark are just measurable bars on display. Really, it's hard to make assessment of his capabilities.
After reading book I was left with opinion that, if he fully merged himself in light instead, he would well stand a chance. It's like, when Yoda at beginning couldn't absorb Palpatine's lightning but in the midst of battle he fully merged in lightside and was well absorbing even stronger lightning.
I actually liked Revan book. The storyline is amazing. I rethought all content and generally Scourge's emotional side is shown very well and representation of what general Sith are about. Saw critics of Darth Bane books that they are like game storyline progressions but Revan book storyline was perfectly fine. That flaw in representation of Revan's Force blast is hardly enough to label the book bad and I didn't give it much consideration until all those debates about Revan's powers began.
Originally posted by darthshade
dooku can not even touch revan...the only star wars character who can beat revan is lord vitiate himself, revan has never been beat by anybody else in history!!!!dooku had a hard time throwing little parts at yoda!
I think Dooku could put up a good fight.
But he'd get his ass kicked.
Revan would beat him pretty decently in the Force, and surpass him in swordsmanship at least narrowly.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
None of the battle takes place via cutscene.
That's unfortunate.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Therefore, I can only either say "not enough info to be conclusive" (which would apply to pretty much any media out of the movies era) or "I believe based on the deliberate showcasing of his Force abilities, the hearsay from KotOR, and the prose of Revan and the Bane novels that Revan's Force mastery appears to excel Dooku's. It's almost certainly greater in scope."
I'd say the former is something we can both agree on. And while I may be inclined to agree with the latter (or at least with the idea that Revan's Force strength is greater than Dooku's), I remain skeptical of the idea that we should assess characters based on creative intent... unless we applied that framework to all characters, not just Revan.
Originally posted by Herbert Spencer
That's unfortunate.I'd say the former is something we can both agree on. And while I may be inclined to agree with the latter (or at least with the idea that Revan's Force strength is greater than Dooku's), I remain skeptical of the idea that we should assess characters based on creative intent... unless we applied that framework to all characters, not just Revan.
At first glance, that appears to be fairness, but in reality the idea of applying it to Revan is an attempt to bridge a huge medium gap. We simply don't have live footage of Revan dueling anyone. We're left to draw our own conclusions, and that injects a lot of subjectivity on behalf of the observer to determine his ranking. The intent of the game creators is "Revan is boss of his era". The only being that conclusively defeats Revan is a Force God who cannot be measured as anything but vastly superior to everyone else at this point. Meanwhile, you have him not just defeating but dominating opponents like Malak (foremost Sith of his era besides Revan, warhero, Jedi Guardian of exceptional talent), Yusanis (foremost echani duelist, echani have a precedent of defeating Jedi in melee), Mandalore (high ranking enemy warrior, lifelong combatant, Mandalorians are among the most dangerous opponents in the galaxy), and Nyriss (Sith Lord of exceptional strength and standing, head and shoulders above Scourge at this point, considerable lightning skills imply considerable Force talent).
A lot of extrapolation there, but it's not wrong to draw conclusions with evidence to bridge the gap. Either you bridge the gap and make a conclusion or you say it can't be bridged and you void the fight.
Dooku hasn't shown us Force mastery on Revan's level. Revan is not a mid-tier or novice fighter. His own record of victories supports this. The implication seems that he's top-tier or best of his era. Revan even goes so far as to call him the best champion of the Jedi at this point. In PT era, a comparable record of mastery and prowess would be like Mace Windu, who is at least a peer of Dooku's.