Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Now this debate is expected to move towards educational credentials. 🙄Yes, Mongol Empire is the largest continuous land empire in history. I accept the error on my part in understanding your statement.
Now can we discuss Star Wars?
Sorry for randomly pouncing on this. The Mongol Empire was the largest contiguous empire, not continuous.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Lord Vitiate vs Gauntlet
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Just watch the ownage Vitiate extends to 4 powerful Jedi simultaneously;Here is another evidence of Vitiate' mind domination:
Warren Sedoru is one of the 4 Jedi and that Vitiate overwhelmed with his powers (first video provided above). Vitiate mind dominated all of them in the process as well.
Wow. First time Ive seen that. Pretty damn impressive.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Leia was a Jedi by this time. She learned Battle Meditation, Force Harmony and similar techniques, which could empower individuals.
She hadn't learned any of this. They only discovered the Holocron which teaches Battle Meditation in DE2.
However it was confirmed in Empire's End that Leia naturally used "Elementary level" Battle meditation in that fight.
So it was a padawan using pre-school level BM.
And it's not even clear in what way that helped. Did it boost his power or did it just aid him in using his own potential (which is what the commentary suggests).
But either way it was clearly DE Luke doing the vast majority of the work in bringing DE Sidious down.
Leia had an innate ability with BM; she was naturaly good with it. That same padawan Leia also momentarily stunned a surprised Sidious with BM (Empire's End). I wouldn't exactly call that "pre-school level BM."
Was Vitiate using "pre-school level" telepathy when he mind wiped a sith lord at the age 10? Or was a 17year-old inexperienced Palpatine using the force on a pre-school level when he hid his force sensitivity and thoughts from Plagueis? Na, I would say these abilities came natural to them. The same can be said with Leia.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Leia had an innate ability with BM; she was naturaly good with it. That same padawan Leia also momentarily stunned a surprised Sidious with BM (Empire's End). I wouldn't exactly call that "pre-school level BM."
It's in Empire's End that we're told Leia was using Elementary level BM in DE1. BUt yeah she didn't learn it, she was doing it naturally.
She had began actually studying it in Empire's end before she stunned Palpatine, but considering this was the dying palaptine who got destroyed by Han Solo shooting him, that doesn't really impress me.
Also her lasting 1 second against such a weakened version of DE Palpatine further proves it must have been DE Luke doing the vast majority of the work to take down DE Sidious in his young strong body.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Was Vitiate using "pre-school level" telepathy when he mind wiped a sith lord at the age 10? Or was a 17year-old inexperienced Palpatine using the force on a pre-school level when he hid his force sensitivity and thoughts from Plagueis? Na, I would say these abilities came natural to them. The same can be said with Leia.
That's all irrelevant. We've been told on panel the level she was using it at was Elementary.
It was elementary BM compared to mentally coordinating an entire navy fleet in battle or leading an entire army of thousands of ground troops, yes. It's not as advanced. However, her use of this elementary BM was so good that Luke would have been defeated without it. Kinda like how he was defeated on Byss.
Soresu is not as advanced as most other lightsaber forms, and yet Obi Wan was so good with it that he was able to outduel Grievous and defeat the likes of A'Sharad Hett.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It was elementary BM compared to mentally coordinating an entire navy fleet in battle or leading an entire army of thousands of ground troops, yes. It's not as advanced.
No comparison of that nature was made though. We are just told her natural ability allowed her to do Elementary level BM without any training.
I doubt people with elementary level BM are significantly boosting the Force powers of others. Not to mention I don't think BM even does that. It aids in giving will power, clearing ones head and stuff like that. Don't get me wrong it was definetely something Luke needed at the time. His mind was getting too clouded in the Dark side.
But Iv yet to see it said anywhere that it actually boosts ones force power, but if you know something I don't feel free to post the source.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
However, her use of this elementary BM was so good that Luke would have been defeated without it. Kinda like how he was defeated on Byss.
Or maybe Luke was just that good, that he only needed a little aid to defeat DE Palps. Remember DE Palps had all the advantages on Byss being a world according to the narration "Entirely Enveloped in the Power of the Dark Side"..
It's described much in the same way Vjun is. And yet Luke was still able to compete with Sids. Still able to Force Push him against the wall (Something I highly doubt anyone below ROTS Yoda or Mace could do), still able to parry several strikes from him and even match him in strength in a Saber lock.
So it's perfectly reasonable to assume DE Luke would do much better in a more neutral setting once his mind was released from the confusion of going too deep into the Dark Side.
And very reasonable to assume that with some Basic BM help from Leia he would definetely defeat DE Palpatine.
Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
^^ Yup. That's true. Hell, Kit Fisto who was a master of Shii-Cho, the most basic form, which all Jedi learned from training, was able to beat Grievous, who is said to be fluent in most of the forms, if I remember correctly.
Form I lightsaber combat was wild and raw, relying on deliberate tactics
Originally posted by Zampanó
Be careful with that; the depiction of Form 1 is wildly inconsistent:Why teach your younglings a form that Kenobi considers dangerously primal (in use)?
Because in the PT Jedi aren't trained specifically to fight other force users in lghtsaber duels, they're trained to fight thugs with blasters and droids, ergo the dueling aspect of it wasn't really all that important.
That aside, shi-cho is apparently a deceptive style in that it's base mechanics are so basic that they represent the building blocks for every other form, whereas the high-end mastery end of it consists of wild and unpredictable attacks.
That aside that aside, despite Kenobi's prodigious Form 3 skills, he's not really an authority on lightsaber styles or combat in general.
Kit Fisto beat Greivous because everyone beats Greivous in TCW cartoon. He jobs in like every episode.
The events in The Cestus Deception happen within the same year (21bby) as the events in the Vassek episodes (where Kit beats greivous). They happen within the same year, yet Kit easily steamrolls Greivous in one mission, and gets handled by Assaj Ventress in the other. How is that even possible?
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Kit Fisto beat Greivous because everyone beats Greivous in TCW cartoon. He jobs in like every episode.The events in The Cestus Deception happen within the same year (21bby) as the events in the Vassek episodes (where Kit beats greivous). They happen within the same year, yet Kit easily steamrolls Greivous in one mission, and gets handled by Assaj Ventress in the other. How is that even possible?
Asajj beat down Grievous in pure Lightsaber combat in season 4 episode 19.
She did so without any use of Force TK as well.
Btw Ashoka was clearly no match for Grievous. But it's clear most Jedi Council memebers can take him.
Ventress is a fair bit above most Council members though.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERAnd yet Greivous manages to defeat both her and Durge at the same time...
Asajj beat down Grievous in pure Lightsaber combat in season 4 episode 19.She did so without any use of Force TK as well.
Btw Ashoka was clearly no match for Grievous. But it's clear most Jedi Council memebers can take him.
Ventress is a fair bit above most Council members though.
Edit- The idea I think is that canon is simply being overwritten. The Clone Wars cartoon has GL's blessing and a little bit of his direction in it, the novels and comics do not. Therefore, TCW can just shit all over pre-established continuity. Cestus Deception events? Never happened. Greivous beating Durge and Assaj simultaneously? Not canon.
etc.
In terms of sheer saber ability, I think Ventress' Makashi skills out-do even Fisto's amazing grasp of Shii-Cho. Since Makashi is purely for saber combat, whereas Shii-Cho seems more of a basic style, unless mastered, it has the general advantage. Then again, I don't have much knowledge on what Fisto has done in comparison to Ventress when it comes to combat feats.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
And yet Greivous manages to defeat both her and Durge at the same time...Edit- The idea I think is that canon is simply being overwritten. The Clone Wars cartoon has GL's blessing and a little bit of his direction in it, the novels and comics do not. Therefore, TCW can just shit all over pre-established continuity.
^ The EU story was clearly A bad day for Ventress 😛
Yep the Animation is more canon, so we should give that version priority when it comes to power levels. Other versions are just bad days for whoever Lol
Originally posted by UltimateAnomaly
In terms of sheer saber ability, I think Ventress' Makashi skills out-do even Fisto's amazing grasp of Shii-Cho. Since Makashi is purely for saber combat, whereas Shii-Cho seems more of a basic style, unless mastered, it has the general advantage. Then again, I don't have much knowledge on what Fisto has done in comparison to Ventress when it comes to combat feats.
Theres an episode of CW where Luminara calls Ventress's Makashi skills amatuarish and sloppy.
Of course 5 seconds later Ventress curbstomps her, so take that how you want.