Originally posted by psycho gundam
here, mentallo gets his power boosted by technology and hulk eventually rejects the fantasy. this happened before the x-men incident
Hulk just realized that what was happening wouldn't actually happen. It was uncharacteristic and Hulk saw through it. Characters do that all the time, and that suggests poor illusions on the part of the telepath.
Doctor Strange HAD Hulk (in the very story arc the Hulk in this debate comes from) until he told him what was going on. Martain Manhunter turning into Betty Ross or any other number of characters and getting Hulk to calm down is not uncharacteristic of the individual he's mimicking. And if he gets Hulk to turn back into Banner, it's squish time.
MM takes this.
eh.. just so you know the hulk in this thread was far less susceptible to telepathy in general, those scans are just to illustrate the point being made. about the scans though: provided he can link to his mind during the fight, how is mm going to know what is ideal for hulk to see anyway?
are you talking about the time hulk/banner tricked strange into lowering his guard so he could crush his hands? ironic, no?
Originally posted by Odekahn
Hulk just realized that what was happening wouldn't actually happen. It was uncharacteristic and Hulk saw through it. Characters do that all the time, and that suggests poor illusions on the part of the telepath.Doctor Strange HAD Hulk (in the very story arc the Hulk in this debate comes from) until he told him what was going on. Martain Manhunter turning into Betty Ross or any other number of characters and getting Hulk to calm down is not uncharacteristic of the individual he's mimicking. And if he gets Hulk to turn back into Banner, it's squish time.
MM takes this.
Unfortunately the Hulk that you are referring to is not the same one that fought against the X-Men and repelled Xavier, and Emma Frost's psi attack. J'onn does not take this, he not only gets beaten, he gets beaten quickly.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
eh.. just so you know the hulk in this thread was far less susceptible to telepathy in general, those scans are just to illustrate the point being made. about the scans though: provided he can link to his mind during the fight, how is mm going to know what is ideal for hulk to see anyway?are you talking about the time hulk/banner tricked strange into lowering his guard so he could crush his hands? ironic, no?
1. Strange's attack didn't work because General Ross's continued attack kept "shutting the door to Hulk's mind.
2. Hulk had to trick Strange to get out of the illusion. He didn't overpower it.
Originally posted by Stoic
Unfortunately the Hulk that you are referring to is not the same one that fought against the X-Men and repelled Xavier, and Emma Frost's psi attack. J'onn does not take this, he not only gets beaten, he gets beaten quickly.
No, the Hulk I'm referring to is the one whose mind was invaded by Doctor Strange and no named Sheild agents.
MM wins.
Originally posted by SuperiorTech
Your memory of that event is a bit off.
You're right, it was a bit off. I just opened my comic. It forced the door to Hulk's mind open (which is interesting in and of itself). So violence opened Hulk's mind? If that's the case MM can STILL get in his head. And my second point still stands.
Even if Hulk can resist mind control, has he ever resisted an attempt to simply shut his mind down?
Because the only reason Black Adam even had a chance to resist MM, is because he opted to control his body instead of switch his mind off. Turn it off, and willpower or resistance doesn't even enter into the equation.
I admit, I haven't been reading worldbreaker Hulk, but unless he suddenly figured out how to fly, he isn't coming back from the sun. The idea is ludicrous.
That said, to be fair, if he can survive the ordeal of being there, he may eventually land on something solid (a layer of iron, probably) from which he could jump through hundreds of miles of photophere and be "out" of the sun again. The main obstacle is telemetry. Space is really big and planets are really small and much farther apart than they look in science books.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Seems like feats of mental resistance generally lend to each other.I don't recall this being stated, much less hinted at. Issue #?
In the first World War III book, MM stated "Continue to struggle, and you will lose the privilege of thought."
Granted, this doesn't prove beyond doubt he could have shut Adam's mind down, but it stands to reason if he immediately shut him down, there would be no struggle.
Like if you sucker punch KO someone, they won't be able to defend themselves, vs letting them put up their defenses first.
Originally posted by Odekahn
No, the Hulk I'm referring to is the one whose mind was invaded by Doctor Strange and no named Sheild agents.MM wins.
Was Stephen's invasion of the Hulk's mind only telepathic, or was there a little bit of mysticism involved in the affair? Placing J'onn in Strange's place to make a point will not work, because they have different power sets. J'onn is more akin to Xavier, and Emma Frost than he is to Dr. Strange. The feat was clearly more than a mental strength feat, or Srange would have been forced back just like Xavier and Frost was, just as J'onn would be. From what I know, J'onn is not the master of the mystical arts.
Originally posted by cdtm
Even if Hulk can resist mind control, has he ever resisted an attempt to simply shut his mind down?Because the only reason Black Adam even had a chance to resist MM, is because he opted to control his body instead of switch his mind off. Turn it off, and willpower or resistance doesn't even enter into the equation.
Shutting the Hulk's mind down has resulted in him becoming an Onslaught buster, ripping two teams of Avenger's a new one, and causing dismay across countless worlds when he was exiled to the Cross Roads. This tactic would not work out well for J'onn, and since the Hulk according to the OP of this thread, starts out on the level of World Destroyer, making him mindless would have his strength begin on a very high plateau, and escalate exponentially in relation to his mindless snarling rage.
J'onn would be wiped out so fast that his fans would be left searching for the kleenex.
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
I admit, I haven't been reading worldbreaker Hulk, but unless he suddenly figured out how to fly, he isn't coming back from the sun. The idea is ludicrous.That said, to be fair, if he can survive the ordeal of being there, he may eventually land on something solid (a layer of iron, probably) from which he could jump through hundreds of miles of photophere and be "out" of the sun again. The main obstacle is telemetry. Space is really big and planets are really small and much farther apart than they look in science books.
The sun? how does he get to the sun? You mean J'onn the guy who fears matches is going to fly the Hulk all the way to the sun, while the Hulk smiles and let's him do all of this to him? I guess it's possible, after all the Hulk has always been portrayed as moving about like a sloth.
Stoic, I could see that happening.. Shut down Banner, and all you have is the monster.
On the physical side, MM has some pretty good Plastic Man like feats under John Ostrander.. Everything from engulfing a being that's supposed to be stronger than Superman, to simply turning to putty at the end of a punch that drove him into the ground, taking no real damage.
Originally posted by cdtm
Stoic, I could see that happening.. Shut down Banner, and all you have is the monster.On the physical side, MM has some pretty good Plastic Man like feats under John Ostrander.. Everything from engulfing a being that's supposed to be stronger than Superman, to simply turning to putty at the end of a punch that drove him into the ground, taking no real damage.
Do you have any idea what World Breaker Hulk is capable of? He's not just some muscle dude, at WB levels he is basically a gamma reactor leaking solar energy. J'onn would not be able to contain him with such a tactic as engulfing him within his stretchy body. J'onn would be turned into molecules while doing battle with WB Hulk, and I am taking this from what was seen on panel even before the Dark Dimension showing. While in Ney York, he was leaking in this way, and this was while he was holding back. No J'onn is not on this level. He's actually far from it.
