Man follows black teen who seems "suspicious" and kills him.

Started by Robtard78 pages
Originally posted by dadudemon
It's not okay to pretend he was the commonly understood idea of "kid" to make an appeal to emotion. Just like it was not okay for me to refer to Martin as a "boy".

Kid = a young person. There's no set in stone ages here, a baby can even be referred to as a kid, "shut that crying kid up."

Young man = A young male. I've had people refer to my son as a "young man" or I sometimes use "little man" as a form of affection and he's 4.

But legally, Martin was a child. So Zimmerman shot and killed child, if "kid" is unacceptable to use in regards to a just turned 17 year old.

right but quoting your own failed diversions only make it more obvious that its a diversion. you're factually incorrect in saying martin was not a child/minor. nobody is arguing that he wasnt a tall and fit child.

you really should stop asserting/imposing your own incorrect and/or arbitrarily marginalized definitions of words on people. 😮

Originally posted by Robtard
Kid = a young person.

Young man = A young male, I've had people refer to my son as a "young man" or I sometimes use "little man" as a form of affection and he's 4.

But legally, Martin was a child. So Zimmerman shot and killed child, if "kid" is unacceptable to use in regards to a just turned 17 year old.

Cool.

And we can move the topic of discussion to something else and I will submit that a 17 year old should not legally be labeled as a child but as an adult, depending on that person. I would move that goalpost to 15, again, depending on the person. Don't forget that I was the one that proposed the fascist system of testing people for a certain political science proficiency before they could vote: age would be irrelevant. I think that's how it should be for many things including age of consent (that would also mean that some adults would not be allowed to consent because they just do not understand some social constructs well enough to give "informed" consent for sexual relations).

So, I disagree with the law. In fact, some states do define something between a child and an adult. Oklahoma has such gray areas: 16- less than 18 is a different category, in age of consent, than less than 16.

Additionally, Florida has such a provision. People between the age of 14 and 18 can be tried as adults. That very same state...addressing the gray area I am talking about...hmm.

There are other adult rights, in some states, that are granted to persons under 18 but not younger than 14. For me, the idea of calling someone of 17 a "child" is quite stupid and ignorant.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Cool.

And we can move the topic of discussion to something else and I will submit that a 17 year old should not legally be labeled as a child but as an adult, depending on that person. I would move that goalpost to 15, again, depending on the person. Don't forget that I was the one that proposed the fascist system of testing people for a certain political science proficiency before they could vote: age would be irrelevant. I think that's how it should be for many things including age of consent (that would also mean that some adults would not be allowed to consent because they just do not understand some social constructs well enough to give "informed" consent for sexual relations).

So, I disagree with the law. In fact, some states do define something between a child and an adult. Oklahoma has such gray areas: 16- less than 18 is a different category, in age of consent, than less than 16.

Additionally, Florida has such a provision. People between the age of 14 and 18 can be tried as adults. That very same state...addressing the gray area I am talking about...hmm.

There are other adult rights, in some states, that are granted to persons under 18 but not younger than 14. For me, the idea of calling someone of 17 a "child" is quite stupid and ignorant.

But legally, Martin was a child. Unless he did something that the legal system decided he would be seen as an adult legally? Though I am not aware of any such happenings prior to Zimmerman stalking and killing him.

A what exact age should a person move from "child" status to "young adult" then, as to not be stupid and ignorant?

edit: Another way to look at it, Martin couldn't vote, since you need to be 18 (an adult) to vote.

Originally posted by Robtard
But legally, Martin was a child. Unless he did something that the legal system decided he would be seen as an adult legally? Though I am not aware of any such happenings prior to Zimmerman stalking and killing him.

That's....that's....not even remotely close to the point I was making.

Should I open another thread? I fear this has become off topic.

Edit - I created another thread for this particular discussion. We can move this particular topic to that thread.

I actually sort of agree with DDD that calling Trayvon a "kid" poisons the well, but where I take issue is him trying to dictate the proper colloquial use of words, especially erroneously. 17 years old is a kid.

Deal with it, DDD.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's....that's....not even remotely close to the point I was making.

Should I open another thread? I fear this has become off topic.

Edit - I created another thread for this particular discussion. We can move this particular topic to that thread.

No. I've grown tired already in this one. Martin was a child, legally, so Zimmerman shot and killed a child. Really nothing more to say.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I actually sort of agree with DDD that calling Trayvon a "kid" poisons the well, but where I take issue is him trying to dictate the proper colloquial use of words, especially erroneously. 17 years old is a kid.

Deal with it, DDD.

Okay, you came 50 so I'll do the same: I concede the point and you are correct. In my small world of 500 or so people I call friends, it is considered rude to call a 17 year old "kid" unless you're trying to tease them. So my bad: I live in a language vacuum where almost everyone votes Republican: it may just be different, here.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay, you came 50 so I'll do the same: I concede the point and you are correct.

you cant plea bargain your way out of being wrong. ❌

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I actually sort of agree with DDD that calling Trayvon a "kid" poisons the well, but where I take issue is him trying to dictate the proper colloquial use of words, especially erroneously. 17 years old is a kid.

Deal with it, DDD.

It may be applied to paint Trayvon in an innocent light, especially to counteract the extremely negative portrayal of his in some media. It has the added benefit of being correct though.

Oh, and it's Da Dude Mon not Da Du Demon. Goddamit, Omega...every ****ing time.

I think the comparison to calling him "unarmed" or "innocent" or "black" is the same. Yes, it does frame the event in a particular light, but that light is also what the facts themselves present. If it appeals to people's emotions that Zimmerman shot an unarmed individual, that isn't really "poisoning the well" so much as it is a statement about the morality behind Zimmerman's actions.

I mean, there have been people who suggested the can of iced tea might have been a weapon, so there is clearly room for DDM to argue that it poisons the well to suggest he was unarmed. Hell, Martin tested positive for marijuana in his toxicology exam, by this same logic, he wasn't innocent.

Originally posted by Oliver North
...Martin tested positive for marijuana in his toxicology exam, by this same logic, he wasn't innocent.

FFS, why didn't I know this after following the case this long?

Is this thea special benefit from watching the news and listening to news radio? I knew he sold it but I didn't know it showed up as him possibly being "high" during those events.

That's it, refer madness explains why he attacked Zimmerman.

marijuana stays in the system an average of 30 days. if they did a hair follicle test, possible more (he seemed to have short hair so probably not)

point is the assumption that he was stoned is the same as assuming someone was high because they took a pain killer over the span of 30 days.

Re: Man follows black teen who seems "suspicious" and kills him.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17452878

Can we agree that the title of this thread is already is as misleading as possible and that without reading anything further, I can pretty much surmise that this will be neither an objective, nor a factual account of what actually happened.

Trayvon was travelling home in his own neighbourhood from the shop with a bag of sweets. It's raining on the street so he's got his hoodie up. Zimmerman is part of a local neighbourhood patrol team who hangs out in his car, armed, looking for people up to no good.

What is this, a scooby doo cartoon? Looking for people up to no good? If you mean "doing his job as a neighborhood watch", then you are correct.

So he sees this black teen walking and decides he's "real suspicious". He calls the police to report it. He tells the police he's "Sick of these ***holes getting away with it"

Kindly point out where he said this? I suppose he also called Trayvon a n******? I think you've been watching too much MSNBC.

Zimmerman then shoots and kills Tray during an altercation. Now whatever about the defence of justifiable homicide, or self defence (Which given it's florida has quite wide definition) to not even ARREST the guy is ludicrous. There are sustained protests in the state and the Justice dept is investigating the FA police's behaviour. But if he gets away with this then as long as you have a licence to carry a concealed weapon, and don't know the person you're about to kill, you've pretty much got licence to kill in Florida as long as no one sees you.

So you miss the part where Trayvon starts a fight, calls him a "suspicious cracker" according to Martin's gf, starts beating the stuffing out of Zimmerman, and then gets shot in the process? I mean, are you even going to attempt to introduce the whole story?

here is the 911 calls . in some of them you hear the teen screaming help, then you hear gunshots.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/GRAPHIC-Trayvon-Martin-911-calls-released/-/1637132/9450044/-/6m827cz/-/index.html [/B]

Really? You hear a teen screaming? That's why it took multiple questions to Trayvon's father before he identified his son? How about this. Nobody was unable to determine who the person screaming was. But that's ok, as long as the emotional side is shown, absent of actual fact. I'm surprised you haven't screamed "racism!" yet because that would definitely complete your rationalizations.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
marijuana stays in the system an average of 30 days. if they did a hair follicle test, possible more (he seemed to have short hair so probably not)

point is the assumption that he was stoned is the same as assuming someone was high because they took pain killers a few weeks ago.

I don't think the postmortem toxicology reports test anything but the blood...nor does it test for those substances being pharmacologically active.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Originally posted by dadudemon
FFS, why didn't I know this after following the case this long?

Is this thea special benefit from watching the news and listening to news radio? I knew he sold it but I didn't know it showed up as him possibly being "high" during those events.

That's it, refer madness explains why he attacked Zimmerman.

the added benefit I had was being unemployed and needing something to watch while I packed up for the move. The media coverage of the case, from all sides, has been at best inaccurate, so I decided to watch the actual trial. With a couple of exceptions in terms of defense witnesses, I have seen every minute of the trial from about day 6 onward.

The levels were like, above trace, but high enough to suggest he might have smoked a few hours earlier, not that he was stoned at the time of the event. Actually... This all came out during a motion from the defense to introduce the toxicology report into evidence. Initially, the person who ran the test said it was so low that there would have been no effect, but the defense had either found a different expert or the individual had amended their statement, and the defense wanted to bring in an expert to describe what effects marijuana might have had on Martin at those levels. I don't actually think I saw if the evidence was accepted, nor did I see that witness.

lol, I'll leave you to invent more things Martin was guilty of though.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
marijuana stays in the system an average of 30 days. if they did a hair follicle test, possible more (he seemed to have short hair so probably not)

point is the assumption that he was stoned is the same as assuming someone was high because they took a pain killer over the span of 30 days.

the toxicology report was consistent with a person who smoked moderate amounts having used 3-4 hours prior.

the prosecution did not challenge this claim.

Lets just call it what it is. No matter what happens, the left will cry "racism" and how African Americans are victims and what not. This is the same story no matter who the victim is. In 1994, OJ was the victim as well, apparently. I hate generalizing by political spectrums but it really is hard to find someone on the left side to offer anything other than an emotional rant, or a misleading argument based on an emotional rant.

It is a tragedy that Trayvon Martin was killed. But there was zero evidence of racism or bias. In fact, the only bias seemed to be on the part of the judge who was trying to carry the prosecution because they were being thoroughly manhandled. The jury issued the correct verdict based on the merits of the case. Case closed. Move on to another "cause".

Didn't Zimmerman actually call him a ******? And was shown to have a "secret" myspace page showcasing blatant racism?

they did a urine sample as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting