CISless Surfer vs HP Doomsday

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Superman only stated he needed to push his own speed when he was exhausted, battered and his legs were like jelly. Don't tell me you can conveniently dismiss that Superman probably wasn't fighting at superspeeds at that point a punchy as he was.

That nobody can accept that Doomsday could be amazingly agile for his size (no he [b]has to be zoom-zoom superspeed) is completely baffling. Completely. Baffling. [/B]

Got proof that Superman suddenly can't fly, run or fight fast after being beaten up?

Because I've got scans of Superman vs The Elite that suggest otherwise.

Originally posted by carver9
Do I have to repost that scan where Superman clearly say "he can't go light speed"?

Originally posted by Philosophía
The statements doesn't need to be "I need to move faster [to my nanosecond level speed] in order to match Doomsday's speed" - the very fact that he has a hard time matching it means that he is at his upper limits of speed - upper limits of which we know. We already know what Superman is capable of - he has casually achieved nanosecond interaction and reaction before all of this happened.

The fact that you're trying to promote Doomsday being roughly equal to Hulk in combat speed, when one of them pushes a nanosecond-level combatant to the upper limits of his capabilities just to match his speed, while the other one has nothing of that kind, is astonishing.

That you happily substitute surprising the sh1t out of Superman as being well superior over all of the measureable combat superspeed feats Hulk has, is disappointing.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Check out the other thread, where he compares Thor "summoning a lightning fortified whirlwind forcefield around him and bidding Mjolnir to speedblitz an opponent repeatedly at 1000x lightspeed while he sits inside when he knows he's utterly outclassed physically" to J'onn not letting Hulk touch him because he is much faster.

Link:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=562589&pagenumber=24#post13774939

Originally posted by carver9
Do I have to repost that scan where Superman clearly say "he can't go light speed"?

Originally posted by abhilegend
How does that matter here, does that somehow invalidates that feat? He was FTL years before that IIRC when he cleaved a moon in half.

So if I were to post a scan of Superman again stating he isn't light speed, will you ignore it like you are it ignoring his claim in the scan I posted. Doesn't make sense, when it suits you, you'll accept what Superman states but when something goes against your claim, you ignore it. Superman clearly states he is unable to accomplish a ft via speed because he isn't fast enough...accept it and move on.

Originally posted by Juntai
I also have a scan of Superman saying he can't get the moon as fast as Wonder Woman's airplane, when he's done so in the middle of a spoken word before.

Read above please (someone recently mention Superman punching Adam with the force of splitting a moon).

Originally posted by Juntai
By the very idea that the writer keeps cramming down our throats as he's closer comparable to true speedsters?[Flash, or Superman pushing himself.] Regardless if he is directly as fast as Flash or not, the constant comparison shows the intent isn't an agile Hulklike Brute.

Got proof that Superman suddenly can't fly, run or fight fast after being beaten up?

Because I've got scans of Superman vs The Elite that suggest otherwise.

Or should I consider changing tactics like you and force you to prove a negative and that Superman has never fought at less than speedster speeds.

Originally posted by carver9
So if I were to post a scan of Superman again stating he isn't light speed, will you ignore it like you are it ignoring his claim in the scan I posted. Doesn't make sense, when it suits you, you'll accept what Superman states but when something goes against your claim, you ignore it. Superman clearly states he is unable to accomplish a ft via speed because he isn't fast enough...accept it and move on.

Originally posted by carver9
So if I were to post a scan of Superman again stating he isn't light speed, will you ignore it like you are it ignoring his claim in the scan I posted. Doesn't make sense, when it suits you, you'll accept what Superman states but when something goes against your claim, you ignore it. Superman clearly states he is unable to accomplish a ft via speed because he isn't fast enough...accept it and move on.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Got proof that Superman was going at speedster speeds in the first place during Death of Superman? kinda

Or should I consider changing tactics like you and force you to prove a negative and that Superman has never fought at less than speedster speeds.

You're also once again ignoring the fact that SPEED was crammed down our throat during the story. Context and intent bro.

Make random wild claims, like Thor stringing all his most exotic powers into one superpower is somehow akin to dodging punches, or keep moving the bar every time I make a post.

Today isn't looking good for you bro. Take a nap, clear your head.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Whatever. Booster Gold saw him coming both times and reacted accordingly by raising his ff and by warning his teammates:

vin

Tell me then, by the same logic, does this make Doomsday not as strong as we though? since he didn't manage to kill a shieldless Booster Gold in repeated blows:

🙂

Originally posted by carver9
Do you know about any comic character you debate for or against? I never said that blue sunlight does nothing for Superman when on panel, it states the opposite. Read the comic and stop visiting respect threads. Like you mentioning 50 Super Nova, didn't happen...it was a made up story by Superman adopted parent. You would have known this if you read the comic.

The "50 supernova thing" was not made up. It was told as a flashback by Jonathon. Martha is aware that the Kryptonians are going to invade or whatever and she's worried Clark won't be able to handle it. Jonathon tells her about something he kept from her to keep her from worrying, and we see the incident, to tell her how he's already seen Clark overcome insurmountable odds. I'm unaware of any actual examples of this turning-out to be made-up. Unless you read something I didn't, you're either assuming that it was made-up because it was a flashback, or you're trying to discredit it.

Also, in terms of blue sunlight amping Superman's existing powers, I dare you to show me where that's stated. I do not see anywhere where does it say that increases his regular powers, It says He has NEW powers, but nothing saying about increasing the old ones.
You really love to talk out of your a**, don't you? Nothing u say suprises me anymore.

Originally posted by Philosophía
For a second I thought you were carver. It's kind of his thing to say that since Superman doesn't constantly operate on a high-end superspeed level on a fight-to-fight basis, and "Mongul tagged him", it means he is not that fast.

Tell me then, by the same logic, does this make Doomsday not as strong as we though? since he didn't manage to kill a shieldless Booster Gold in repeated blows:

🙂

Of course, Superman using his combat superspeed the entire time... no question he did that, whatsoever. Because that helps justify projecting Superman's speed onto Doomsday. Because well... if Superman weren't using his combat superspeed at times -- such as when he's exhausted and near-death -- well... y'know, some statements wouldn't have as much oomph as we'd all like them to.

Have I stated the irony dryly enough for you?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. That tells me that Doomsday might not have been using his full strength the entire time. Which you would agree with, I presume.

Of course, Superman using his combat superspeed the entire time... no question he did that, whatsoever. Because that helps justify projecting Superman's speed onto Doomsday. Because well... if Superman weren't using his combat superspeed at times -- such as when he's exhausted and near-death -- well... y'know, some statements wouldn't have as much oomph as we'd all like them to.

Have I stated the irony dryly enough for you?

^ Elaborate, because I honestly fail to see what point you're making here. Doomsday did, in fact, use all his strength, but the writers made Booster survive anyway as PIS?

Originally posted by Juntai
You're the one suggesting he was slow because he was battered. I have scans proving proof being battered seemed to have little effect on his speed.

You're also once again ignoring the fact that SPEED was crammed down our throat during the story. Context and intent bro.

Make random wild claims, like Thor stringing all his most exotic powers into one superpower is somehow akin to dodging punches, or keep moving the bar every time I make a post.

Today isn't looking good for you bro. Take a nap, clear your head.

But do you want me to prove Superman, during Death of Superman, as the fight went along, suffered exhaustion affecting his ability to fight or dodge? If I do, are you going to prove that Superman was zoomzoom throughout the entire fight, especially at the end?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Was Superman not at the ends of his stamina at that point pouring his all into power? With "legs like jelly"? "Punchy"? "Exhausted"? "Battered"? There's a reason these words are in quotes, they're not my own.

😂 Holy f*ck, dumby.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. That tells me that Doomsday might not have been using his full strength the entire time. Which you would agree with, I presume.

facepalm

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Of course, Superman using his combat superspeed the entire time... no question he did that, whatsoever. Because that helps justify projecting Superman's speed onto Doomsday. Because well... if Superman weren't using his combat superspeed at times -- such as when he's exhausted and near-death -- well... y'know, some statements wouldn't have as much oomph as we'd all like them to.

Superman doesn't need to have used his superspeed the entire time. Stop trolling by putting words in my mouth. The fact that at that moment he admitted that had to push himself just to match Doomsday means that the latter operates at the upper limit of Superman's speed - which is consistent with what the entire arc was portraying.

I'll put it bluntly here. You said that Doomsday and Hulk and roughly on the same level. With that in mind, is your position that the upper limit of Superman's speed he was talking about in that scan is Hulk level?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Elaborate, because I honestly fail to see what point you're making here. Doomsday did, in fact, use all his strength, but the writers made Booster survive anyway as PIS? No, you're the one suggesting he was just as fast as he'd always been fighting. That you haven't even yet established that he was fighting with combat superspeed in the first place is a point I've repeatedly thrown in your face.

But do you want me to prove Superman, during Death of Superman, as the fight went along, suffered exhaustion affecting his ability to fight or dodge? If I do, are you going to prove that Superman was zoomzoom throughout the entire fight, especially at the end?

The story kept telling us of the incredible speed. The intent is clear to me and everyone else not named One Dumb.

I have scans of a battered and nearly beaten Superman with his speed seemingly unaffected, if you want to claim that because he was taking punches he got vastly slower and that's WHY he couldn't keep up, then by all means, but a battered and broken Superman was still too fast for The Elite to even react against, showing us what he's capable of at the bottom of his power even if you consider that to be the case- and where Doomsday lies in comparison- making supes push his limits.

Originally posted by Philosophía
You're saying that he was now so damaged, that his upper levels of superspeed and subsequently Doomsday's are now around Hulk level?

:lol

So you agree that Booster not beng killed by him means he didn't use his full strength, but at the same time aren't willing to concede that he didn't use his full speed against Booster, when the latter reacted to his attack, and try to use that against him?

facepalm

#1 I'm asking you if it's impossible that Superman was so exhausted that he wasn't anywhere near nanosecond speeds (like you've been implying) and thus had to kick up his speed substantially up to the surprisingly still agile Doomsday. The exhausted Superman who couldn't escape falling debris because he was so battered. The dying Superman who couldn't fly a helicopter far away enough because he didn't have enough time.

#2 You're twisting yourself up. If you agree that Doomsday wasn't using insane superstrength because forcefield-less Booster survived his pummeling or that Doomsday wasn't using insane combat superspeed because Booster actually reacted to his attacks more than once, we agree with each other. That you refuse to believe at any moment that Superman wasn't using his insane combat superspeed at any point -- particularly the point where he's just about dead -- is delicious irony.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Superman doesn't need to have used his superspeed the entire time. Stop trolling by putting words in my mouth. The fact that at that moment he admitted that had to push himself just to match Doomsday means that the latter operates at the upper limit of Superman's speed - which is consistent with what the entire arc was portraying.

I'll put it bluntly here. You said that Doomsday and Hulk and roughly on the same level. With that in mind, [b]is your position that the upper limit of Superman's speed he was talking about in that scan is Hulk level? [/B]

Let's put it bluntly here, how sure are you that Superman was operating at supersonic speeds at that time, much less nanosecond speeds?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Or that Superman wasn't operating at his best speed levels at that time?
Let's put it bluntly here, how sure are you that Superman was operating at supersonic speeds at that time, much less nanosecond speeds?

I have scans of a battered and nearly beaten Superman with his speed seemingly unaffected, if you want to claim that because he was taking punches he got vastly slower and that's WHY he couldn't keep up, then by all means, but a battered and broken Superman was still too fast for The Elite to even react against, showing us what he's capable of at the bottom of his power even if you consider that to be the case- and where Doomsday lies in comparison- making supes push his limits.

Originally posted by Juntai
As easily explained as Batman taking a superspeed chokeslamming from Superman and living, or again a superspeed punch to the stomach in a different issue, and surviving both. They were put there to get their ass whooped, not to die. Why would Doomsday pull punches for Booster and crew? lol. Phil was just teasing your trolling.

Originally posted by Juntai
The story kept telling us of the incredible speed. The intent is clear to me and everyone else not named One Dumb.

I have scans of a battered and nearly beaten Superman with his speed seemingly unaffected, if you want to claim that because he was taking punches he got vastly slower and that's WHY he couldn't keep up, then by all means, but a battered and broken Superman was still too fast for The Elite to even react against, showing us what he's capable of at the bottom of his power even if you consider that to be the case- and where Doomsday lies in comparison- making supes push his limits.

I also note that you have backhandedly dismissed my offer to show you where Superman was slowing down in Death of Superman. My guess is, you remember the scenes I referred to demonstrating thus. So, no, I won't press you into proving that Superman was going zoomzoom the entire fight, especially at the end. It's entirely obvious he wasn't. References to Superman at his Joe Kelly levels are entirely irrelevant. We both know this.