Superman vs Thor, Colossus and The Thing

Originally posted by abhilegend
I've posted them in pc kryptonians respect thread. I believe its Superman 58. Oh and Kal-L snuffed a star with his breath.

So Pre-Crisis, I guessed as much.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was talking about superman 158 or 159 I believe. KOTW, he's right. J'onn clearly said they couldn't hold him for long. It happened again in S/B 32 with j'onn, PG, kilowog, ultraa and a load of other heroes after he was fighting non-stop for days IIRC.

Superman #158? That's the issue that Superboy and Steel entered Superman's body, the rest of the Justice League wasn't present as far as I recall.

According to him: Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Big Barda, Supergirl, Steel and Superboy were barely capable of restraining Superman after he went a few rounds with Orion. That's the issue I'm interested in, and it's not Superman/Batman #32, that was still impressive (He had gone a few rounds with Blackrock Batman earlier, not sure about days), although John and Kara IIRC were the only two real strongmen.

Originally posted by abhilegend
The reality was same, just a little altered. Diana had lasso of truth, but her bracelets were weak because superman broke them, right?

Who else has threatened to break them?

While I think Loeb's Superman would own Diana in such a manner, I'm not entirely sure that he'd have him break her bracers so casually in the main reality, so it's something worth noting.

What is it with you and bemoaning any criticism of Superman? I'm not implying that they were fragile or weak, I am however pointing out that they aren't consistently on par with their best as seen with Sonic's scream, Ultra Man's heat vision, lightning etc. which is true.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He wasn't any way, shape or form looked uncomfortable tossing that ship.

Maybe where he come from, the word ease means something different, but as far as I know, it certainly doesn't apply to this scene:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/TheEarthStealersa-1.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/TheEarthStealersb-1.jpg

Here comes the really hard part =/= Ease

Originally posted by abhilegend
You know that isn't comparable to what happened in IC rage. Kal is stronger than thor, how much its debatable.

Enlighten me, why not? Do you by any chance know the exact amount of force it takes to break a dimensional barrier in comparison to that of a Big Bang level force capable of collapsing all alternate time lines of existence into one? Sarcasm aside, still not sure how you can say they clearly aren't comparable.

It should be noted, Thor has shattered a portion of reality with a blow, closed a hole in dimensions by colliding fists with Hercules etc. He also destroyed dimensional portals from the land of the Faerie’s to Midgard by hammering, his suit was made of Iron, but why should I be the only one worried about context?

I think Pillar is using the Earth 2 (I think it was Earth 2 Superman but it wasn't our Supes) busting out of a group of heros that was holding him down. Forgot the issue number but its the one where Starman increase his weight a 100 fold and drops him (but he eventually gets up and bust out of the stacked heros). Pillar is getting his characters mixed up.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Maybe where he come from, the word ease means something different, but as far as I know, it certainly doesn't apply to this scene:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/TheEarthStealersa-1.jpg

Interesting. This scan has Superman admitting he has nothing like the power to push planets around.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Interesting. This scan has Superman admitting he has nothing like the power to push planets around.

Pretty much.

It was from the early 90's, so not Superman at the height of power inflation. Still, don't be fooled by some posters claiming Superman can easily move planets or whatever, that's complete and utter bullshit. Each time he's moved a planetary body Post Crisis, it took all his power and he had help.

And a lot of writers don't think elites should be moving planets, some consider mountain moving as their limit, different writers have different views. Not to mention that leading up to the reboot, Superman displayed a clear limitation of strength far below planet moving. Like I said, different writers and all.

It doesn't mean Superman's any weaker than say Gladiator, just because a writer thinks he should top out at mountains. The same would apply to the clone, plus, another writer might think otherwise.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It was from the early 90's, so not Superman at the height of power inflation. Still, don't be fooled by some posters claiming Superman can easily move planets or whatever, that's complete and utter bullshit. Each time he's moved a planetary body Post Crisis, it took all his power and he had help.

And a lot of writers don't think elites should be moving planets, some consider mountain moving as their limit, different writers have different views. Not to mention that leading up to the reboot, Superman displayed a clear limitation of strength far below planet moving. Like I said, different writers and all.

It doesn't mean Superman's any weaker than say Gladiator, just because a writer thinks he should top out at mountains. The same would apply to the clone.

Stop bringing up Gladiator. I agree with you though, I wouldn't put Gladiator at Planet pushing either. I would say around the level you've stated, mountain pusher/lifter. That is still a high level of power imo even though I can see Gladiator and Superman straining to do this.

I can bring up Gladiator how often I want.

Superman/Gladiator may strain with mountain lifting or not, depends on the writer. They could also move one under a different pen.

While we're on the subject, I still can't believe people reference the Infinite Book from Limbo feat and claim it demonstrates infinite might with a straight face. I mean, what the f*ck? This is from the previous issue and a much better gauge of his awesome strength:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01d.jpg

But that's just me.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Interesting. This scan has Superman admitting he has nothing like the power to push planets around.

And yet IIRC I saw him pushing a planet with a GL construck chaining him to the planet earth as he was pulling it.

It could be argued that GL was helping but I doubt it since it didn't show any propulsion to the construct.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I can bring up Gladiator how often I want.

Lol.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I can bring up Gladiator how often I want.

Superman/Gladiator may strain with mountain lifting or not, depends on the writer.

While we're on the subject, I still can't believe people reference the Infinite Book from Limbo feat and claim it demonstrates infinite might with a straight face. I mean, what the f*ck? This is from the previous issue and a much better gauge of his awesome strength:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01d.jpg

But that's just me.

Lol...infinite weight. Lol.

Team, but ben is useless here. Thor plus Jugg powered colossus would beat him imo.

Originally posted by carver9
I think Pillar is using the Earth 2 (I think it was Earth 2 Superman but it wasn't our Supes) busting out of a group of heros that was holding him down. Forgot the issue number but its the one where Starman increase his weight a 100 fold and drops him (but he eventually gets up and bust out of the stacked heros). Pillar is getting his characters mixed up.

I don't have a lot of time to reply right now, so I'll just say two quick things, and then reply in more detail later.

1) Superman can't push a planet? You must mean besides Krypton and Warworld. Ever hear of the Maggedon feat? Tell me you seriously think Thor could push something the size of Jupiter in a comic today. He needed help to lift Asgard and he was still struggling.

2) Superman vs Thor didn't look like Superman was 10 times Thor's strength? Well, no one has paid attention to what I've said, so I'll clarify. Superman GOING ALL OUT, which he wasn't when he fought Thor is 10 tens Thor's strength AT BOTH OF THEIR PEAKS. Easily. And that's being generous to Thor. Also, that fight was PRIOR to several power ups on Superman's part. Durability is the same thing. Thor died form one supernova. Superman, weakened survived an explosion equal to 50 supernovas. That's about as cut and dry as it gets, folks.

3) and I understand why Rage doesn't want to believe that warrior's madness amps thor to x10 his normal strength (even though it's stated in black and white, with no contradictory evidence)...mainly because if that's Thor at 10x strength, he doesn't look too good compared to Superman's high end stuff. Oh, and when did I say "Blood and Thunder"? I love it when people put words in my mouth.

GTG. Be back later to answer in more detail.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It was from the early 90's, so not Superman at the height of power inflation. Still, don't be fooled by some posters claiming Superman can easily move planets or whatever, that's complete and utter bullshit. Each time he's moved a planetary body Post Crisis, it took all his power and he had help.

And a lot of writers don't think elites should be moving planets, some consider mountain moving as their limit, different writers have different views. Not to mention that leading up to the reboot, Superman displayed a clear limitation of strength far below planet moving. Like I said, different writers and all.

It doesn't mean Superman's any weaker than say Gladiator, just because a writer thinks he should top out at mountains. The same would apply to the clone, plus, another writer might think otherwise.

You REALLY don't want me to go the lowballing route with Thor. Thor has shown limits to his strength FAR MORE consistently than Superman has. And durability-wise it gets even worse for him. We can start talking about mortar shells, bullets, his own lightning one-shotting him (twice that I know of), etc. I don't think anyone who reads DC comics thinks Superman can't move a planet. Though I know a lot of Marvel fans would love to think he can't. There are many examples of him moving planets, and much much more.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

Now since you have an agenda, I doubt it ultimately matters to you, but the fact that writers as far as we know can't see into the future, they as a result didn't intend to give Thor any such large strength amp, so you're argument is somewhat laughable with a hint of desperation.

I love this. I have an agenda eh? I'm debating arguably the most biased Thor fan I've ever encountered (you), and BY FAR the most biased Hulk fan in existence (carver). I've said Thor vs Superman with their full powers is a wash, but if it makes you feel better to ignore the evidence and just claim I have an agenda, you might as well say:

"Go read some comics" (or some variant of that line)

"Epic fail"

or post an emoticon.

Pretty the go-to lines for people who have nothing to say of relevance or any actual arguments. And what's this about me ignoring every little thing you say, but then you ignore half of what I say? Sorry, if I missed some points, I kind of have other stuff to do besides be on here, but if it's important enough I'll try to get to it.

And it's hilarious you think I'm desperate, when all the evidence there is shows it increases his strength tenfold, and you have yet to show anything that contradicts that.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Oh, and when did I say "Blood and Thunder"? I love it when people put words in my mouth.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor against Thanos with WM wasn't all that impressive to be honest, considering his strength was supposed to TEN TIMES normal levels.

Originally posted by Tony Stark
But, your saying Colossernaut is immortal and can't be killed? He either can be or he can't be.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb

Blood and Thunder is even worse for Thor, if you think about it, so what point are you trying to make?

Thor with a power gem STILL didn't have unlimited strength. I don't know, you may think I'm trying to low ball Thor...But I'm really not. I just don't think his strength and durability are on par with Superman. His other powers, sure. I don't see what's so outrageous about this.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Blood and Thunder is even worse for Thor, if you think about it, so what point are you trying to make?

Thor with a power gem STILL didn't have unlimited strength. I don't know, you may think I'm trying to low ball Thor...But I'm really not. I just don't think his strength and durability are on par with Superman. His other powers, sure. I don't see what's so outrageous about this.

And a series where Thor beats up Beta and Surfer, Surfer and Warlock with no powerups, Drax twice with the PG, and finally just smashes everyone (Surfer, Warlock, Strange, Drax, Maxam, etc) when he gets the PG (minus Thanos) is even worse for Thor... because he had problems with Thanos who we've never really seen go all out, and is at an almost complete lack of low feats.

Just awful for Thor.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
That you're the one who brought up Blood and Thunder, so no one was putting any words in your mouth.

And a series where Thor beats up Beta and Surfer, Surfer and Warlock with no powerups, Drax twice with the PG, and finally just smashes everyone (Surfer, Warlock, Strange, Drax, Maxam, etc) when he gets the PG (minus Thanos) is even worse for Thor... because he had problems with Thanos who we've never really seen go all out, and is at an almost complete lack of low feats.

Just awful for Thor.

I really don't think anyone is understanding what I'm saying so now I'm getting tired of this debate. It's not awful for Thor. I'm not saying that. But consider the tremdenous amp in strength, and his punches aren't shattering reality (like Superman), he's not lifting infinite weight, etc. Superboy Prime has retconned reality with his punches, he's punched his way out of dimensions....yeah, that's not Superman, I realize that, but that's an example of something that would make me think Thor with the amp is stronger than Superman. And WM Thor hasn't done anything that has impressed me on that level either. For Marvel, Thor is as close to a top tier as you can get. But the power levels in DC are just higher, and more ridiculous, hence why Marvel is more popular (IMO anyway). The stories are a little more realistic (a relative statement in this situation).

And you're blowing that out of proportion. You have to remember when people aren't trying to kill someone, like the Surfer RARELY is against Thor. A NON-AMPED Superman has overpowered MULTIPLE heralds, who are each as impressive as the people you just mentioned.