Superman vs Thor, Colossus and The Thing

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I really don't think anyone is understanding what I'm saying so now I'm getting tired of this debate. It's not awful for Thor. I'm not saying that. But consider the tremdenous amp in strength, and his punches aren't shattering reality (like Superman), he's not lifting infinite weight, etc. Superboy Prime has retconned reality with his punches, he's punched his way out of dimensions....yeah, that's not Superman, I realize that, but that's an example of something that would make me think Thor with the amp is stronger than Superman. And WM Thor hasn't done anything that has impressed me on that level either. For Marvel, Thor is as close to a top tier as you can get. But the power levels in DC are just higher, and more ridiculous, hence why Marvel is more popular (IMO anyway). The stories are a little more realistic (a relative statement in this situation).

And you're blowing that out of proportion. You have to remember when people aren't trying to kill someone, like the Surfer RARELY is against Thor.

You realize you're saying the power levels in DC are higher because a character that was meant to be ridiculous... who was above Superman in the first place was shattering reality?

Also, Thor has one of those infinite weight/completely unquantifiable feats in the form of the World Engine

Blowing that out of proportion? Thor ran through 3 high heralds, 2 Hulk level beings, and some lower level beings. But it's blown out of proportion because they weren't trying to kill him (yet they wanted to STOP him, so that's irrelevant either way). Not only did he run through them, he one shotted Maxam, Surfer, Warlock, and Strange, and two shotted Drax.
If there's one series to bring up in an effort to try and downplay Thor, it is not Blood and Thunder.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
So your point is that if you don't shatter reality that you're not that strong... in a nutshell?
lol what. Does this make Superman stronger than pretty much everyone in Marvel then? Because not many shatter reality with punches, and that's what it takes to prove that you're above Superman?

You realize you're saying the power levels in DC are higher because a character that was meant to be ridiculous... who was above Superman in the first place was shattering reality?

Also, Thor has one of those infinite weight/completely unquantifiable feats in the form of the World Engine

Blowing that out of proportion? Thor ran through 3 high heralds, 2 Hulk level beings, and some lower level beings. But it's blown out of proportion because they weren't trying to kill him (yet they wanted to STOP him, so that's irrelevant either way). Not only did he run through them, he one shotted Maxam, Surfer, Warlock, and Strange, and two shotted Drax.
If there's one series to bring up in an effort to try and downplay Thor, it is not Blood and Thunder.

I love how Rage and Carver are on the same page. mmm

Originally posted by -Pr-
I love how Rage and Carver are on the same page. mmm

😂

Originally posted by -Pr-
I love how Rage and Carver are on the same page. mmm

Me and you are on the same page 90% of the time...you just never admit it.

😄

Originally posted by carver9
Me and you are on the same page 90% of the time...you just never admit it.

😄

Oh?

I thought i'd made it clear that you're a DC hating, Hulk-nut riding troll?

mmm

Need me to be clearer?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb

Also, Thor has one of those infinite weight/completely unquantifiable feats in the form of the World Engine

Not bad for appearing in like 50 years of comics.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb

If there's one series to bring up in an effort to try and downplay Thor, it is not Blood and Thunder.

You just don't understand anything I'm saying. Arguing with people in this thread has been like talking to a wall. I'm not trying to downplay Thor. But I guess you just don't understand that. And I have no idea where you get from my post that you have to shatter reality to be ahead of Superman. Me giving one example means that's the ONLY example now? I guess I could go through a list of a hundred different examples, but I thought showing a couple of them was enough. I guess not. Here's another: Tanking a universe busting explosion. There's lots of ways, just because I named 3 or 4 doesn't mean I think those are the ONLY WAYS.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Thats simply because marvel doesnt write characters doing ridiculous high end level things like that and never will, even though there is no writer who would say superman is stronger than thor physically.

So, are you trying to use Superman's strength being portrayed much more impressively than Thor's has against Superman? Yeah, Superman is physically weaker because he's more impressive!! If so, GREAT argument there. Trying to dismiss Superman's strength? Not a good argument either.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Oh?

I thought i'd made it clear that you're a DC hating, Hulk-nut riding troll?

mmm

Need me to be clearer?

Lol...yeah, this is proof enough... you are mad about something.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...yeah, this is proof enough... you are mad about something.

Don't confuse blunt honesty with anger.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Don't confuse blunt honesty with anger.

Lol...the last time you act like this, 4 people received a warning and you replied "this is the wrong night to be trolling or f***** around". Carver9 can get to people sometimes, its not a bad thing to admit. I am about to stop replying to You tonight before I dig myself in a hole further than what I am in now.

Don't know if someone's already replied to this, and already answered your questions, but I'm replying anyways.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
A big rant about Superman's higher end showings (Most of which I know of), doesn't prove your point or convince me. I'm also still curious about the evidence you initially listed (The Warrior Madness showing).

You also completely ignored everything else I pointed out, not the best tactic to use in a discussion.

I haven't seen any of these showings suprisingly, do you have an issue number?

And when has Superman moved planets with ease? Have you actually read any of the planet moving feats shown Post Crisis?

Barely capable of restraining? Can I have an issue number, because we must be talking about a different scene.

I also have a problem with the way this line of thinking is going. Wonder Woman's bracers aren't across the board on their high end level, Superman's fists aren't the only things that have circumvented them.

It should be noted, that when he shattered them, it wasn't entirely in the real reality.

Okay, I don't think you understand what the word ease means.

Moving planets with ease and creating a sun was from Golden Age Superman, the example was actually to reference how strong Kal-L is when referring to the space/time shattering example around INFINITE CRISIS. First time Superman ever moved a planet, and it's actually dwarfed by creating a sun.

SUPERMAN(Volume One) #58

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=superman58_pg46.jpg

Here's nearly knocking the Moon out of orbit while under Kryptonite. This was from the storyline where he had that, I guess it was a cancer genetically engineered to produce Kryptonite poisoning. This was before he actually started glowing green, though. Note the coughing and his "I don't think I'm ok" to J'Onn.

http://s647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/Strength/?action=view&current=AC764HITTINGTHEMOONWHILELOOSINGPOWERS.jpg

And you asked, "Barely capable of restraining?" Wonder Woman's exact words were, "Even all of us together can't hold him for long!!" What exactly do you think Wonder Woman meant? "He's so easy to restrain we can't do it for long!!" or that they were barely keeping him in place?

SUPERMAN: THE MAN OF TOMORROW #13

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=week16-1999-supesmot-13-18.jpg

Note, some argue that Superman was Sun-Amped here. While there is a mention of Superman's greater exposure to the Sun earlier helping him with the Kryptonite GL creates, I have a hard time seeing Superman was actually amped considering his performance against Orion compared to their first published(and at the time, first canonical) fight when this happened. If Superman were truly amped, he would've wiped the floor with Orion.

And you have a problem with Wonder Woman's bracelets as they're not "--across the board on their high end level?" How many examples do you have of them being damaged?

And the shattering, time was being screwed with, but it wasn't actually an alternate reality in the sense you normally think of. If anything, this actually makes for a less powerful Superman, as he likely wouldn't have had any power-ups, or at least as many, at the time the story was published.

And you think he doesn't understand what the word "ease" means?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/VS%20Lobo/MOS%2030/?action=view&current=supesmos-30-16.jpg

Anything there that makes it look like he's having a hard time?

Oh and on the Thor feat, I'd have to see it again, but I recall it being less impressive for a number of reasons. Sending a "shockwave" just seems less impressive than, ya know, actually shattering space/time, then it required Mjolnir, and was a shared feat. Kal-El and Kal-EL did it individually on their own. Unless you count having someone durable enough to go all-out on as "help." It wasn't the force of both their firsts colliding together, it was the force of their fists hitting each other.

There is some serious and self destructive superman wanking in this thread..... it's like people just wanna take the high showings and run with it..

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Carver said that speed is unrelated to distance and time. I wouldn't put any ludicrous claim past him.

I'm still trying to lift my jaw off the floor. The little exposure I've had to him lurking here and on another site would never prepare me for that.

But also didn't he argue that Wolverine beats Equus and actually used Wolverine being a better fighter like it matters? My stand-up's better than Brock Lesnar, but if you boosted Lesnar's strength 10 times it wouldn't matter.

Originally posted by carver9
Show me some fts that suggest Current Supes can beat Thor and Colossonaut. Go visit respect threads like you tend to do.

This coming from the guy who always says Thanos immediately throws-up his shields, and that because Fallen One can fly at trans-light speed that MUST mean Thanos has FTL reflexes?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I can bring up Gladiator how often I want.

Superman/Gladiator may strain with mountain lifting or not, depends on the writer. They could also move one under a different pen.

While we're on the subject, I still can't believe people reference the Infinite Book from Limbo feat and claim it demonstrates infinite might with a straight face. I mean, what the f*ck? This is from the previous issue and a much better gauge of his awesome strength:
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01a.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01b.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01c.jpg
http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/Superman/Strength/lifting/finalcrisisbeyond3d01d.jpg

But that's just me.

I guess you're unaware this is actually an extremely bad argument to say, "This is a better demonstration of Superman's strength, no he doesn't really have 'Infinite-Level' Strength."

That ship is traveling at dimensional-barrier breaking speeds. Here's the ease of barrier breaking. Light>Time>Dimension. So, this means that, whether it's moving via direct speed or is using some "vibration" this is essentially moving at greater than lightspeed. You know what happens when something goes lightspeed?

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=jla00306.jpg

Mass goes to infinity. So, this is actually one of those high-end feats you're trying to dismiss. The irony leave ya sore?

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...the last time you act like this, 4 people received a warning and you replied "this is the wrong night to be trolling or f***** around". Carver9 can get to people sometimes, its not a bad thing to admit. I am about to stop replying to You tonight before I dig myself in a hole further than what I am in now.

I'm bluntly honest all the time.

When I'm mad, you'll probably get banned rather than teased mercilessly.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I don't have a lot of time to reply right now, so I'll just say two quick things, and then reply in more detail later.

1) Superman can't push a planet? You must mean besides Krypton and Warworld. Ever hear of the Maggedon feat? Tell me you seriously think Thor could push something the size of Jupiter in a comic today. He needed help to lift Asgard and he was still struggling.

2) Superman vs Thor didn't look like Superman was 10 times Thor's strength? Well, no one has paid attention to what I've said, so I'll clarify. Superman GOING ALL OUT, which he wasn't when he fought Thor is 10 tens Thor's strength AT BOTH OF THEIR PEAKS. Easily. And that's being generous to Thor. Also, that fight was PRIOR to several power ups on Superman's part. Durability is the same thing. Thor died form one supernova. Superman, weakened survived an explosion equal to 50 supernovas. That's about as cut and dry as it gets, folks.

3) and I understand why Rage doesn't want to believe that warrior's madness amps thor to x10 his normal strength (even though it's stated in black and white, with no contradictory evidence)...mainly because if that's Thor at 10x strength, he doesn't look too good compared to Superman's high end stuff. Oh, and when did I say "Blood and Thunder"? I love it when people put words in my mouth.

GTG. Be back later to answer in more detail.

A few things I had to say about this. First, the Warworld example isn't valid. Superman was massively amped there. But the other two world-pushing examples are valid. Some might argue about Krypton that you're leaving-out context, but then they're ignoring or ignorant of other context hindering Superman that in all honesty I think balances things out. But yeah, felt that needed to be said.

But actually you're wrong about Thor dying from a supernova. I read the scans. It's actually worse for Thor. It was a "mere" nova, not a supernova. A nova would be equivalent to throwing gasoline on the fire, whereas a supernova is the star straight-up exploding. So, taking that into account, the difference in durability between Superman and Thor is even greater than you were aware of.

When did Thor die from a nova?