Originally posted by CortSether
Can't we just agree that both characters in this thread suck? Lucifer is overrated and Chaos King is needless since he's just a rip-off of Shuma-Gorath.Anyway...CK > Lucifer
Proof?
Originally posted by NemeBro
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/54328/1034880-beyonder.gif
Originally posted by Epicurus
No, we can't. Lucifer is probably the best written Abstract level character in the history of comics, and also one of the most powerful, unlike that shitty ass loser known as Shuma-Gorath.Proof?
Are you a masochist?
98% of abstracts under DC are awful. Lucifer is one of them.
Originally posted by Cogito
Actually that seems to point to a third possibility.We have recreating existence and rule it as its All-Father [b]or
...rebuilding reality and resurrecting the slain.So according to that, he could recreate/rebuild existence either way, but it seems resurrecting the dead was what caused him to "expend his divine energy" to the point where he had none left. [/B]
I don't think so. Because resurrecting the dead comes as a side effect of recreating existence.
He'd have no problem recreating approximately the entire multiverse but "resurrecting the slain" caused him to lose all his divine powers? ....... Come on.
If anything, a retelling from Herc 06.1, attributes Herc losing his powers, at least in part, due to him restoring Mount Olympus (which can't exactly be classified among the slain, no?) and returning the other gods to their rightful places:
http://i.imgur.com/bFCyqbN.jpg
Originally posted by Sundipped
Also, on panel>>>>>handbook.
If the handbook contradicts what was stated/shown on panel, then yes, we do take the on panel account instead of the handbook. But if the handbook merely adds additional info (and doesn't contradict anything) which was left ambiguous in the on-panel scene (like in this case), then we should acknowledge the handbook, imo.
Originally posted by zopzop
Cort is right, CK is a blatant rip off of a character but it's not Shuma Gorath, it's Nekron.If was DC, as soon as I saw the solicits for Chaos War, I would have had my lawyers on Marvel's @$$.
Except DC would've lost if they tried to sue Marvel by saying Chaos King is a rip off of Nekron.Chaos King's back story is based on the mythological story of Amatsu-Mikaboshi.Except Marvel made few alterations in the Chaos King's story by having TOAA as the one who brought him down in the cosmic hierarchy.Here's the original mythological story line according to Mikaboshi worshipers.
http://stevenscamwiki.wikispaces.com/Ama-no-Kagaseo
Story of Kagaseo and MikaboshiIn the beginning the universe was all covered in darkness. In this darkness a single being lived, this being was known as Amatsu-Mikaboshi, the primordial Darkness. The Mikaboshi lived in its tyrannical rule for ages and did what it could to keep everything from shattering its power. Yet, some point several elder kami came forth and fought with the Mikaboshi over dominance of the Universe. Eventually one of them was able to break past its defenses and created the Earth. In this, this single act, shattered the Mikaboshi’s power and caused it to suffer and its power waned greatly. As Two Kami were sent to the world to create others, Mikaboshi lost his power and in a single desperate act, hurled itself into the world and hid itself in the deepest, darkest reaches of the world. Eventually the Sun and Moon were created and with this, humans. As Humans roamed the world, their desires gave to the now nearly dead and weak creature known as the Mikaboshi slowly arose, but, with this, it no longer had the power to call itself Mikaboshi, so it gained a new name, Kagaseo. With its awakening, people followed it and worshiped it, giving it power so that one night, after it returns from slumber, it will become the Mikaboshi it once was.
-Story often told by the Kannushi of the Kagaseo
Here's Marvel's version according to the tie-in Chaos War:Chaos King.TOAA started creation that reduced Chaos King into being a Godling.
And if my understanding about Gods is correct, Gods fall on the public domain category.Which means you can make a story about a God from any Mythological Pantheon.You can make your own version of Hercules or Thor.As long as the back story isn't the same as Marvel.
Originally posted by Igniz
Except DC would've lost if they tried to sue Marvel by saying Chaos King is a rip off of Nekron.Chaos King's back story is based on the mythological story of Amatsu-Mikaboshi.Except Marvel made few alterations in the Chaos King's story by having TOAA as the one who brought him down in the cosmic hierarchy.Here's the original mythological story line according to Mikaboshi worshipers.http://stevenscamwiki.wikispaces.com/Ama-no-Kagaseo
Here's Marvel's version according to the tie-in Chaos War:Chaos King.TOAA started creation that reduced Chaos King into being a Godling.
And if my understanding about Gods is correct, Gods fall on the public domain category.Which means you can make a story about a God from any Mythological Pantheon.You can make your own version of Hercules or Thor.As long as the back story isn't the same as Marvel.
Also you're describing the original Mikaboshi and he was nothing more than your run of the mill evil God, it was only later he became Nekron......... I mean CK.
Originally posted by CortSether
98% of abstracts under DC are awful. Lucifer is one of them.
I'm willing to bet you haven't read 98% of issues with DC abstracts in them. Lucifer is one of them.
I dare you to prove me wrong.
Originally posted by operator616
I don't think so. Because resurrecting the dead comes as a side effect of recreating existence.He'd have no problem recreating approximately the entire multiverse but "resurrecting the slain" caused him to lose all his divine powers? ....... Come on.
If anything, a retelling from Herc 06.1, attributes Herc losing his powers, at least in part, due to him restoring Mount Olympus (which can't exactly be classified among the slain, no?) and returning the other gods to their rightful places:
http://i.imgur.com/bFCyqbN.jpg
If the handbook contradicts what was stated/shown on panel, then yes, we do take the on panel account instead of the handbook. But if the handbook merely adds additional info (and doesn't contradict anything) which was left ambiguous in the on-panel scene (like in this case), then we should acknowledge the handbook, imo.
Not only restoring them to life, but also restoring their power, is what drained him. That's 100% how I interpret that handbook scan. He couldn't keep his power and give everyone else power at the same time.
On the other hand, Lucifer's power is by definition as infinite as God's.
Originally posted by Galan007
Lucifer is easily the best-written abstructual character in comics. The only thing(s) that come close are Sandman and the Endless.Anyone who says that Lucifer is 'awful' either hasn't read the series, or is hating just to hate. It's that simple.
Sorry if I don't find stories about Lucifer getting mad about people's notions of Hell and deciding to leave and run a bar in LA super exciting.
Originally posted by zopzop
Cort is right, CK is a blatant rip off of a character but it's not Shuma Gorath, it's Nekron.If was DC, as soon as I saw the solicits for Chaos War, I would have had my lawyers on Marvel's @$$.
Rip-off not in design, but more so in concept. I mean Shuma would have fit great in the whole Chaos War story. Shuma-Gorath was called the master of the lords of chaos, has an unknown age that is extremely old even among gods, and is said to be a 'void made flesh'. Would have made more sense to me to have Shuma-Gorath as the "Chaos King" than Mikaboshi. Everything fits with showings of the character. I do wonder if Shuma is possibly an aspect of Oblivion based on all that.
