Chaos King vs Lucifer Morningstar

^ There's a reason you have to take LT's name-dropping and multiverse-referencing with a real grain of salt in Chaos War, no mater how richly and specifically defined/established those terms have been in other stories (some even involving the characters in Chaos War.) Because if you have to take it at its full faith and credit, Chaos King absorbing 98.75% of the endless alternate universes that comprise the Marvel Multiverse, necessarily means Supergod Hercules restored same in the climax to Chaos War -- a feat of monumental power rarely seen in comics that involves Earth-211 to Earth-1982 to Earth-616 to Earth-8721435 and countless others...

... in a completely unextraordinary scene, where what we actually see on-panel is Hades being restored with Ares back in chains, Nightmare's realm being restored, the planet Earth and the stars and space around it being fixed, New Yorkers waking up to a repaired Manhattan and... Alpha Flight being resurrected:

http://i.imgur.com/FvpXobR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6u3We4R.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sHVM1Hf.jpg

Somehow, all those countless alternate universes that would necessarily be involved if Chaos King did eat the Multiverse got restored... off-panel. Really? Really??? RLY???????

I mean, if the appearance of the completely irrelevant Alpha Flight didn't clue you in... jebus. Same applies to Lucifer. Even moreso, when you actually look at the scenes in question. Somehow, Lucifer didn't just mold a universe, he molded an endless set of fully-functioning alternate universes -- a feat of monumental power rarely seen in comics...

... in a completely unextraordinary scene, where what we actually see on-panel is Lucifer flying around in space near a single star down to primordial single Earth, flying past a tree, forming his Adam/Eve couple, dictating and informing them of their free will:

Somehow, Lucifer did this across all those countless alternate universes that would necessarily be involved if Lucifer did mold a multiverse... off-panel. And, yknow, when he split the Gate on Earth across God's creation to allow its denizens to choose his creation to live in, this scene actually occurred on countless alternate Earths leading to the countless alternate Earths in Lucifer's creation... and not just this one Earth that we see and deal with, for virtually the entire time until it's converged onto Elaine's creation at story's end.

Really? Really??? RLY???????

Originally posted by Sundipped
WTF is going on in this thread?
You guys gotta be sleep deprived over this.

Originally posted by operator616
Then you're outright ignoring evidence.

Because going by your own standards, Yahweh's creation is a multiverse (we see alternate universes), Lucifer and Michael created it (ive got on panel and bio confirmations for it, so don't try to deny it).

So tell me, based on what are you exactly denying this fact?

I never agreed with you. I believe both CK and Lucifer's feats are multiversal.

I didn't engage you since you made it clear that your standards for being multiversal, is that the comic should actually depict those universes (which Lucifer's creation didn't)

But when you start denying that Yahweh's creation is a multiverse despite the on panel evidence.....then i gotta reply because you're spreading misinformation.

that aside......There are other things indicating that Lucifer is multiversal (and beyond).

We have seen Dream being scared of Lucifer in Sandman #23:

http://i.imgur.com/kBZ62dH.jpg?1

5 issues prior, in Sandman #18, a thousand humans managed to change the whole universe with the power of Dream (From its beginning to the end) in Sandman v2 #18:

http://i.imgur.com/fKDqYQ8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2nIVjD6.jpg

pay attention to this panel:

http://i.imgur.com/g08hjDH.jpg?2

JLA classified #36:

batman says that materioptikon (dreamstone) created multiple realities:

http://i.imgur.com/4yFm2qe.jpg

earlier in the issue it's stated that the Red King created infinite versions of himself (or billion at least), which would mean he created billions of universes given that each version of him is from a different universe:

http://i.imgur.com/YT97H6d.jpg

sandman #7, Dreamstone is part of Dream's power

http://i.imgur.com/2JAKc1p.jpg

That's literally creating billions of realities instantly with a part of Dream's power.

So just imagine how powerful Dream must be? Yet to be literally dwarfed by Lucifer?

Forget the fact that Death (who operates across multiverseS), wasn't able to claim Lucifer.

So you would have me believe that Lucifer is "universal"? Oh please.

Those facts above are also part of the reason i think that Lucifer is above CK.

Eh, your analogy doesn't work here.

It also actually makes perfect sense. Yahweh's creation is a multiverse (i hope we're not denying that are we? because that'd be against your standards, you know) yet, it was called "the universe" on panel time and time again.

Awful? Think again.

Dumby should just take a break from this thread for a couple of days. Get his head together, and then come back and apologize like a good little girl to every Lucifer-fan whose intelligence he insulted with his monkeying around with the evidence posted for Lucifer.

I did warn him after all that he would be opening a Pandora's Box by attempting a "deconstruction" of Lucifer's multiversal creation feat, and he failed to heed my warning. In my experience you reap what you sow, and that is exactly what Dumb's undergoing right now; paying for the awful sin of butthurt/ignorance-induced trolling in this thread.

Originally posted by operator616
Lucifer and Michael created it (ive got on panel and bio confirmations for it, so don't try to deny it).

Originally posted by operator616
Forget the fact that Death (who operates across multiverseS)

Originally posted by zopzop
The only problem with this is, one of those people is missing from this thread.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Lucifer only needs to rely on Michael in so much that he can't create something from nothing. Which Herc can't do either. Not to mention this thread isn't even about Lucifer taking part in a multiverse-buliding competition, it is about Lucifer vs CK.[b] And seeing how Lucifer treats people like the Endless(who are clearly beyond the CK), this thread isn't going to end well for the CK. Your argument is horrible as usual. 👇 [/B]

SG Herc didn't anyone or anything to restore a 98.75% annihilated multiverse. He just had to wait till he was healed from being literally tentacle raped by the guy who destroyed it. He didn't listen to reason AND he didn't want the power and authority anyway. So he went ahead and restored everything even while mortally wounded.

Originally posted by zopzop
That's your opinion.

SG Herc didn't anyone or anything to restore a 98.75% annihilated multiverse. He just had to wait till he was healed from being literally tentacle raped by the guy who destroyed it. He didn't listen to reason AND he didn't want the power and authority anyway. So he went ahead and restored everything even while mortally wounded.

You're wrong. He had to give up his power in order to completely restore the universe to its prior state before it got wrecked by Mikaboshi. Weakened Lucifer also killed Michael and destroyed Fenris along with scaring the crap out of Noema. Near-dead Lucifer also domineered Death of the Endless as if she were his personal hoe. Better feats than what CK achieved combat or hyperbole-wise by far.

^ Remember, Lucifer could also withhold the concept of death(from other beings) for as long as he chose.

Originally posted by operator616
Then you're outright ignoring evidence.

Originally posted by operator616
Eh, your analogy doesn't work here.

Originally posted by operator616
It also actually makes perfect sense. Yahweh's creation is a multiverse (i hope we're not denying that are we? because that'd be against your standards, you know) yet, it was called "the universe" on panel time and time again.

Awful? Think again.

And the sheer number of times we see only three Earths being involved for the majority of the arc, and number of times that the term "universe" is used, and the utter scarcity of clearly multiversal figures and adventures, only brings it beneath Chaos War's claim to multiversality.

Read the comic.

You don't read, "That's a whole f@cking universe out there!" by putting on fanboy goggles and butcher it to mean, "That's a whole f@cking universe endless set of alternate universes, a true multiverse out there based on that one time a loaded term was dropped in passing in a completely different issue you probably haven't read since it hasn't even fugging published yet!"

Originally posted by Epicurus
👆

Dumby should just take a break from this thread for a couple of days. Get his head together, and then come back and apologize like a good little girl to every Lucifer-fan whose intelligence he insulted with his monkeying around with the evidence posted for Lucifer.

I did warn him after all that he would be opening a Pandora's Box by attempting a "deconstruction" of Lucifer's multiversal creation feat, and he failed to heed my warning. In my experience you reap what you sow, and that is exactly what Dumb's undergoing right now; paying for the awful sin of butthurt/ignorance-induced trolling in this thread.

Your yammering insults and inability to accept the absurdities of your assertions as applied to the scenes in question are duly noted and dismissed.

Originally posted by ODG
You should learn to read comics for what they are. Not what you can twist them into to suit your own personal agenda.

Originally posted by ODG
Your yammering insults and inability to accept the absurdities of your assertions as applied to the scenes in question are duly noted and dismissed.

Originally posted by zopzop
The only problem with this is, one of those people is missing from this thread.

Originally posted by ODG
They're not going to get over that. The Michael-sized hole has become too big for them to see.

Thing is, we saw Lucifer manipulate infinite energy--God's energy--on panel. In fact, he was gifted with God's willpower in order to do this(it takes infinite will to mold infinite power, after all.) So if we already know he can manipulate infinite energy(because he has), why wouldn't he be able to manipulate energy that is less than infinite? Again, if I can lift 100lbs, I can probably lift 50lbs as well.

Aside from even that, what's stopping Lucifer from winning via simply BFR'ing CK into a void? This is not a 'universe-off'. This is a battle.

Originally posted by ODG
They're not going to get over that. The Michael-sized hole has become too big for them to see.

Originally posted by zopzop
That's why I've all but given up on this thread. At this point it's just people talking past each other.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Irony definitely suits your next username.

😆

The infinite magnitude of difference in such power levels necessarily involved should not occur off-panel. Lucifer molding an endless set of alternate universes should not be depicted by him spending an entire issue yutzing around on a single Earth, in a single garden, with a single pair of humans.

Especially in a storyline endlessly littered with the term, "universe," and dealing with, at most, three separate Earths for the vast majority of its arc. Then again, regale us with the notion that when the Basanos invade Lucifer's creation and attacked the inhabitants that migrated across the split gates, the Basanos were attacking simultaneously across all alternate realities in Lucifer's supposed multiverse.

Go ahead and read it that way, you colossal goon. That's your prerogative. Just don't insult us by suggesting that's the reasonable way of reading these comics. You have an argument, sure, with some evidence, yes. It's just a spectactularly inept one, riddled with contradictory evidence that flies in the face of common sense, largely based on a single passing comment several issues removed from the feat itself.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thing is, we saw Lucifer manipulate infinite energy--God's energy--on panel. In fact, he was gifted with God's willpower in order to do this(it takes infinite will to mold infinite power, after all.) So if we already know he can manipulate infinite energy(because he has), why wouldn't he be able to manipulate energy that is less than infinite? Again, if I can lift 100lbs, I can probably lift 50lbs as well.

Aside from even that, what's stopping Lucifer from winning via simply BFR'ing CK into a void? This is not a 'universe-off'. This is a battle.

But yeah, I agree with you. This is Lucifer's only chance of winning : appeasing CK.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Oh look! Dumby and floppy fellating each other in the wake of the brutal anal gangrape they both suffered at the hands of the sociopathic Lucifer-fans in this thread. Never thought I'd ever live to see this Kodak moment. Profiled for obvious reasons. 😂

But this is actually step up for you though.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thing is, we saw Lucifer manipulate infinite energy--God's energy--on panel. In fact, he was gifted with God's willpower in order to do this(it takes infinite will to mold infinite power, after all.) So if we already know he can manipulate infinite energy(because he has), why wouldn't he be able to manipulate energy that is less than infinite? Again, if I can lift 100lbs, I can probably lift 50lbs as well.

Aside from even that, what's stopping Lucifer from winning via simply BFR'ing CK into a void? This is not a 'universe-off'. This is a battle.

The heroes had to do quite a bit to accomplish their BFR of Chaos King. Galactus working with Cho to bridge the infinite gulf that made the Continuum the perfect place to trick the Chaos King into settling in, the assembled heroes and Supergod Hercules falling like flies to distract Chaos King from the trap being sprung, etc.

Even if we fairly and rightly assume Lucifer's crafty enough to trick him on his own, I'm not sure we can just assume in this neutral setting that Lucifer will have his Gate(s) or that Galactus and Cho will be setting up a convenient portal to somewhere far across the gulf of universal/multiversal expansion.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Oh look! Dumby and floppy fellating each other in the wake of the brutal anal gangrape they both suffered at the hands of the sociopathic Lucifer-fans in this thread. Never thought I'd ever live to see this Kodak moment. Profiled for obvious reasons. 😂

How does it feel to be owned by zopzop's perfectly legitimate criticisms? That sh1t must burn. Like acid or something.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thing is, we saw Lucifer manipulate infinite energy--God's energy--on panel. In fact, he was gifted with God's willpower in order to do this(it takes infinite will to mold infinite power, after all.) So if we already know he can manipulate infinite energy(because he has), why wouldn't he be able to manipulate energy that is less than infinite? Again, if I can lift 100lbs, I can probably lift 50lbs as well.

Aside from even that, what's stopping Lucifer from winning via simply BFR'ing CK into a void? This is not a 'universe-off'. This is a battle.

👆

Originally posted by ODG
By all means, I accept that you're stupefied into silence and capable of only the limpest of hollow proclamations when confronted by the exact reason I explicated for why my standard is the way it is and how far below Lucifer comes to it.

Originally posted by ODG

Because the infinite magnitude of difference in such power levels necessarily involved should not occur off-panel.

Originally posted by ODG

Lucifer molding an endless set of alternate universes should not be depicted by him spending an entire issue yutzing around on a single Earth, in a single garden, with a single pair of humans.

Originally posted by ODG

Especially in a storyline endlessly littered with the term, "universe," and dealing with, at most, three separate Earths for the vast majority of its arc. Then again, regale us with the notion that when the Basanos invade Lucifer's creation and attacked the inhabitants that migrated across the split gates, the Basanos were attacking simultaneously across all alternate realities in Lucifer's supposed multiverse.

Originally posted by ODG

Go ahead and read it that way, you colossal goon. That's your prerogative. Just don't insult us by suggesting that the reasonable way of reading these comics. You have an argument, sure, with some evidence, yes. It's just a specactularly inept one, riddled with contradictory evidence that flies in the face of common sense.