Ozymandias vs Captain America

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
Cap has never shown any combat knowledge other than brute strength which won't matter here considering hes not that much stronger than Ozy in the first place...

Showing and Having are 2 different things.

Anyone who thinks Captain America, who is a Super Soldier and going to be an agent of Shield in the sequel, can't fight is just kidding themselves.

Going by showings Ozy has zero durability feats.

And yes Cap is considerably stronger. The most Ozy has lifted is the weight of one human for a couple of seconds. Whilst Cap has lifted a motorcycle plus 3 women for an extended period of time with absolute ease.

The most Ozy has done is throw a person through re-inforced glass, whilst Cap has punched through it.

So Cap is stronger by a margin, but much much more durable. He can probably tank everything Ozy can dish out.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Entire Post...

Really not even worth my time.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Anyone who thinks Captain America, who is a Super Soldier and going to be an agent of Shield in the sequel, can't fight is just kidding themselves.

From what we've seen on film, he's has a few weeks of combat training and what appears to be passable boxing skills.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Really not even worth my time.

I accept your concession.

You'd be wise not to attempt to have a meaningful 'debate' with me. Your entire argument is built upon the premise that this thread is even a legit match.

Originally posted by Robtard
From what we've seen on film, he's has a few weeks of combat training and what appears to be passable boxing skills.

Well we don't know how much time passed tbh.

And it's not like we were shown Ozy went through years of ninja training or anything. Yes his moves looked better. But that's just down to choreography.

But all I'm saying is considering:

1)the fact that Cap is a Soldier in WWII and then
2)a SHIELD agent in the 21st century and
3)the fact the Avengers naturally give charge of the team to him being the most experienced/competent soldier,
4)the fact that Nick Fury himself says "Wars are won by Soldiers" referring to Cap,
5) We see him on the boxing bag in his spare time..

Then I think we can pretty much assume he's a trained fighter.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I accept your concession.

You'd be wise not to attempt to have a meaningful 'debate' with me. Your entire argument is built upon the premise that this thread is even a legit match.

No concession.. Your argument's just not worth a rebuttal..

Giving irrelevant arguments like "he outsmarted a God, and outsmarted the world.."

So I guess Batman would get his ass whooped by Lex Luthor in combat since he's outsmarted Superman and the world on multiple occassions right??

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No concession.. Your argument's just not worth a rebuttal..

Correction: you tried a rebuttal but it was so poorly formed and irrelevant that it was worthless.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Giving irrelevant arguments like "he outsmarted a God, and outsmarted the world.."

Irrelevant if you choose to ignore Ozy's abilities, obviously. Since that won't fly, you can ignore it all you want: you're definitely not getting anywhere in this conversation and you definitely are not being taken seriously.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So I guess Batman would get his ass whooped by Lex Luthor in combat since he's outsmarted Superman and the world on multiple occassions right??

This is not only a strawman argument (it misrepresents mine and then argues against it), it is a red herring (it is irrelevant and detracts from the actual points).

If you wish to actually form a proper and relevant argument, let me know.

To answer your question about whether or not Lex Luthor could defeat Superman and Batman in combat:

Originally posted by dadudemon
Correction: you tried a rebuttal but it was so poorly formed and irrelevant that it was worthless.

No actually if you get your head out of your ass for a second you will see that I'm addressing everyone else's points who are in the Ozzy camp, because they are making points worth addressing.

Just not going to waste my time addressing your pointless arguments. Coming out with crap like "Ozy wins because he wears body armor, and because he's really good at watching more than one TV channel" Lulz!

Not to mention your just outright making crap up like Roscharch and Nite Owl had super powers, and Cap never wore protection.

Just rewatched the Ozy vs Rosch and Night Owl fight.

I forgot just how impressive he was. He is definitely superhuman in the fight. I still don't know if I would put him ahead of Cap in terms of abilities especially if Cap gets his Shield for the fight.

ok Darth you are assuming Cap has some amazing fighting skill (even tho he hasn't shown it) based on "Fury made him the leader" and "he fought in WWII".

you dont see the problem with this? Ozy not only showed he had a sh!t load of skill but made two (three if you count Silk Specter II) people who were ATLEAST peak human and at most low level superhuman (going by feats here not statements)

Comicbook Cap is another story entirely but as far as movie Cap goes he has shown nothing to indicate he can beat Ozy

Originally posted by juggerman
ok Darth you are assuming Cap has some amazing fighting skill (even tho he hasn't shown it) based on "Fury made him the leader" and "he fought in WWII". you dont see the problem with this?

Well I never said "Amazing" fighting skills. I said anyone who thinks Cap can't fight, considering the facts, are kidding themselves.

Originally posted by juggerman
Ozy not only showed he had a sh!t load of skill but made two (three if you count Silk Specter II) people who were ATLEAST peak human and at most low level superhuman (going by feats here not statements)

Which means what exactly? Peak human? Cap was squatting human away like flies. Cap took punches from the Red Skull (who could punch through bullet proof shields) and says "I can do this all day.."

What durability feats does Ozy have?

I'm betting Cap with his superior strength and healing abilities can take anything Ozy can dish out.

Well I never said "Amazing" fighting skills. I said anyone who thinks Cap can't fight, considering the facts, are kidding themselves.

well to think he can take Ozy who whooped on two guys WITH amazing fighting skill Cap would really have to have some sweet moves

Which means what exactly? Peak human? Cap was squatting human away like flies. Cap took punches from the Red Skull (who could punch through bullet proof shields) and says "I can do this all day.."

which means they were better fighters than Cap and had some strength feats that put them above peak human imo.

What durability feats does Ozy have?

he caught a bullet. as in the bullet did not go thru his hand. i dont think he had on bullet proof gloves.

plus he willingly took several full power punches from Night Owl who has broken bones with a single punch WITHOUT being KO'd or seriously injured

I'm betting Cap with his superior strength and healing abilities can take anything Ozy can dish out.

but with Cap massively inferior h2h skills and combat speed he will eventually be worn down (as has shown to be possible) without so much as touching Ozy

Originally posted by juggerman
well to think he can take Ozy who whooped on two guys WITH amazing fighting skill Cap would really have to have some sweet moves

Well no because those 2 guys were only peak human.

Cap's >>>> those 2 opponents.

Originally posted by juggerman
which means they were better fighters than Cap and had some strength feats that put them above peak human imo.

Combat skill really won't matter much unless strength and speed is comparable.

Originally posted by juggerman
he caught a bullet. as in the bullet did not go thru his hand. i dont think he had on bullet proof gloves.

Yes that was very impressive. And tbh his speed is his most lethal weapon, and the only weapon of his that would be a major threat to Cap. Of course it might be all he needs, but as mentioned I think Cap can take a good deal of damage.

Originally posted by juggerman
plus he willingly took several full power punches from Night Owl who has broken bones with a single punch WITHOUT being KO'd or seriously injured

Which doesn't really compare to Cap taking full power punches from Red Skull...

Or Cap getting up a few seconds after taking an alien laser blast to the stomach...

Or Cap surviving a plane crash and being frozen for 70 years.

We know Cap is stronger, and we know Cap has a healing ability. And we know Cap has >>> durability feats. So I really don't think durability is even a contest here.

Originally posted by juggerman
but with Cap massively inferior h2h skills and combat speed he will eventually be worn down (as has shown to be possible) without so much as touching Ozy

When was he shown to be worn down? After he took an alien laser blast to the stomach?? Even then he still got up after a few seconds and carried on fighting.

Well no because those 2 guys were only peak human.

Cap's >>>> those 2 opponents.

when did Cap show superior fighting ability to either of those 2 "peak human" guys?

just running in and bull rushing with the shield isnt gonna be too effective here and thats Caps go to move

Combat skill really won't matter much unless strength and speed is comparable.

combat skill most certainly matters here since the two "peak human" guys had WAY more fighting skill than Cap has ever shown yet there were unable to do anything at all to Ozy who was severly holding back

Yes that was very impressive. And tbh his speed is his most lethal weapon, and the only weapon of his that would be a major threat to Cap. Of course it might be all he needs, but as mentioned I think Cap can take a good deal of damage.

yes im sure Caps durabilty is above Ozys i only mentioned those feats cuz you asked for some.

but you are assuming Cap has greater fighting skill than he has actually shown so can i then assume than since Ozy caught a bullet that he is completely bullet proof even tho he hasnt shown it?

Which doesn't really compare to Cap taking full power punches from Red Skull...

Or Cap getting up a few seconds after taking an alien laser blast to the stomach...

Or Cap surviving a plane crash and being frozen for 70 years.

We know Cap is stronger, and we know Cap has a healing ability. And we know Cap has >>> durability feats. So I really don't think durability is even a contest here.

well it was never my point that their durability was comparable just that Ozy has shown to be durable.

When was he shown to be worn down? After he took an alien laser blast to the stomach?? Even then he still got up after a few seconds and carried on fighting.

he has been shown to have limits. not saying his limits are easily reached but they are there. like after the explosion in Avengers and he hit the car he got up very slowly showing he was hurt. the blaster also hurt him. its been awhile since i saw Captain America but im pretty sure there were times when he was hurt.

meaning with enough of an ass whooping he will go down.

also Cap can be killed by things like bullets, fire, sharp objects ect. just like Ozy can. it doesnt just have to come down to "who beats whom to death 1st with their bare hands". and since Ozy is a much faster and better fighter its more likely that he would get the kill well before Cap had the opportunity

Would be an absolutely incredible fight, with as many punches & kicks blocked and parried as made contact. Cap throws the shield at Veidt, that would be a mistake.

Only edge for Cap I can see is his stamina would be greater, thanks to the serum. That's how he could outlast Veidt...possibly.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No actually if you get your head out of your ass for a second

I can't get it out: it has to be there first for me to take it out.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
you will see that I'm addressing everyone else's points who are in the Ozzy camp, because they are making points worth addressing.

Incorrect: you are failing to address their points and, instead, your just posting words at people.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Just not going to waste my time addressing your pointless arguments.

In other words, you are saying this to me: "You obviously would put me to shame so I dare not attempt to actually engage you in a debate. I concede, man. UNCLE! UNNNCLE!"

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Coming out with crap like "Ozy wins because he wears body armor, and because he's really good at watching more than one TV channel" Lulz!

Yeah, having body armor and the ability to focus on dozens of things at once in no way would help in a fight, at all! HAHA! Oh boy, you got me!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Not to mention your just outright making crap up like Roscharch and Nite Owl had super powers,

Did I say they had "super powers"? Did I? Hmm?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
and Cap never wore protection.

Did I say Steve never work protection? Hmm?

Darth: give it up, I am too awesome for you.

Edit - And why did you ignore my Lex Luthor scan! It was hilariously awesome against your point. I laughed, man. I laughed! 😄

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well we don't know how much time passed tbh.

And it's not like we were shown Ozy went through years of ninja training or anything. Yes his moves looked better. But that's just down to choreography.

But all I'm saying is considering:

1)the fact that Cap is a Soldier in WWII and then
2)a SHIELD agent in the 21st century and
3)the fact the Avengers naturally give charge of the team to him being the most experienced/competent soldier,
4)the fact that Nick Fury himself says "Wars are won by Soldiers" referring to Cap,
5) We see him on the boxing bag in his spare time..

Then I think we can pretty much assume he's a trained fighter.

It was implied that the government was in a hurry to get the super-soldier program started and from screen time, it didn't seem that long. So it's safe to say at most he went through what amounted to was basic training. 6-8 weeks, iirc.

We have no idea how much training Ozymandias went through, but we do know he was an active crime fighter for a couple decades or so, iirc.

It's jut not the level of choreography in Watchmen Vs CA/Avengers, as we see Black Widow doing fancy flips and such. Ozymandias showed far superior fighting skills; this is just a fact we see. Night Owl showed better skills than Captain America and he got his ass along with Rorschach's handed to him by a guy who was actively not trying to overly harm them and having a conversation. That's two asses.

1) Being a soldier doesn't mean you're some skilled H2H combatant on that merit alone
2) If SHIELD trained him, we didn't see the fruits of their labor. He fought in the same basic-manner as he did in Captain America
3) Means he's a natural leader or a good leader
4) No one is arguing that Captain America isn't a soldier
5) Yes, what I said, he showed "passable boxing skills"

Again, don't think I ever implied he was just some average dope and in the end we can argue 'levels of training' until we shit our diapers, but what counts is what was shown; Ozymandias is far superior in fighting skill and he's ridiculously faster.

Ozymandias took on two above peak human fighters easily.

Captain America was beating the shit out of hundreds of superhuman warriors with high-tech weaponry who could fall hundreds of feet and had the strength to grapple onto buildings without their limbs shattering.

When Dan's punches actually landed, Ozymandia's face was bruised and bloodied up.

Captain America took hits from Loki without much complaint, and was blown out of the second or third floor of a building by an explosion, and proceeded to land on a car. He got up and continued fighting.

Captain America wins.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ozymandias took on two above peak human fighters easily.

Captain America was beating the shit out of hundreds of superhuman warriors with high-tech weaponry who could fall hundreds of feet and had the strength to grapple onto buildings without their limbs shattering.

When Dan's punches actually landed, Ozymandia's face was bruised and bloodied up.

Captain America took hits from Loki without much complaint, and was blown out of the second or third floor of a building by an explosion, and proceeded to land on a car. He got up and continued fighting.

Captain America wins.

He did and then some.

His attacks were basic swings and such for the most part and I don't recall the Chitauri foot troops showing any fighting skills besides firing their guns and charging head-long like morons.

When Ozymandias allowed himself to be beaten and didn't bother to move in an attempt to deflect some of the force. Night Owl also showed extreme strength, he would have caved in a normal human's face.

Yes, Captain America has super-human durability.

He's not landing a single blow on Ozymandias unless Ozymandias wishes, so how can he win in a fight like this?

Cap's best bet is to strip down, show Ozymandias his defined ass and hope Ozymandias takes the bait. After Ozymandias as blown his load and is tired, Cap can try and capitalize on that.

Originally posted by Robtard
He did and then some.

His attacks were basic swings and such for the most part and I don't recall the Chitauri foot troops showing any fighting skills besides firing their guns and charging head-long like morons.

That doesn't mean a whole lot considering they are strong enough to tear any character without a blue dong in Watchmen in half.

Ozymandias is strong, but he is being wanked. Captain America fights an army of superhumans and wins.

"Hurdur fighting skill" is an idiotic argument used to get around the fact that the opposition is physically far superior to your side. In this case, Cap>>Oz.

When Ozymandias allowed himself to be beaten and didn't bother to move in an attempt to deflect some of the force. Night Owl also showed extreme strength, he would have caved in a normal human's face.

Right, which is what happened when he punched normal men in the movie. Oh wait, that isn't what happened!

Captain America hits far harder than Dan.

Yes, Captain America has super-human durability.

More than Oz's, yes.

He's not landing a single blow on Ozymandias unless Ozymandias wishes, so how can he win in a fight like this?

Ah yes, the reaction-time = Untouchable argument.

That argument is ****ing stupid.

Ozymandias was never portrayed as so fast he could easily dodge and avoid every ****ing blow his opponents threw. He had to resort to blocking or parrying throughout much of his showings, something he isn't doing to a character who could frankly manhandle him. Cap is much stronger than Dan, Rorschach, or even Comedian. Hell, Comedian IIRC actually got hits in. Like a badass.

Cap's best bet is to strip down, show Ozymandias his defined ass and hope Ozymandias takes the bait. After Ozymandias as blown his load and is tired, Cap can try and capitalize on that.

Or he could just power through everything Ozymandias has and beat him into submission. Because that's exactly what will happen. With the shield even more-so.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That doesn't mean a whole lot considering they are strong enough to tear any character without a blue dong in Watchmen in half.

So you'll ignore that fact that they can easily beat the shit of out top-level gangsters and criminals (like they were nothing) just so you can say Steve wins? Gotcha: you're clearly approaching this with an objective mind.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ozymandias is strong, but he is being wanked.

Not really. I estimated, a couple of years back, his strength to be between 1-2 ton class. About where Steve is.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Captain America fights an army of superhumans and wins.

Oh really? And where did he do this? 🙂

Originally posted by NemeBro
"Hurdur fighting skill" is an idiotic argument used to get around the fact that the opposition is physically far superior to your side. In this case, Cap>>Oz.

Okay, let's do it your way: Ozy's much more superior speed and fighting skill no longer matters. Let's just ignore Ozy's extreme superhuman ability to focus on dozens of things at once. Let us also ignore that he caught a bullet. Now, let's also pretend that they just haymaker punch each other the whole time.

HOORAY! Steve might win, now!

Originally posted by NemeBro
Captain America hits far harder than Dan..

I disagree with this statement.

Originally posted by NemeBro
More than Oz's, yes.

I disagree with this statement, as well. Consider that Ozy has high durability (just his body, alone). Then consider he is wearing body armor. Then consider that Steve has a shield and has comparable "naked" durability to Ozy. Who wins in durability? Tough to say, for me.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ah yes, the reaction-time = Untouchable argument.

That argument is ****ing stupid.

Wait, so you're mad because Steve literally could not touch Ozy unless Ozy allowed Steve to? haermm

GTFO.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Ozymandias was never portrayed as so fast he could easily dodge and avoid every ****ing blow his opponents threw.

That's just too bad: he really did. He was shown to have the ability to block, dodge, and parry every move thrown at him by opponents who are comparable to Steve Rogers.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He had to resort to blocking or parrying throughout much of his showings, something he isn't doing to a character who could frankly manhandle him. Cap is much stronger than Dan, Rorschach, or even Comedian. Hell, Comedian IIRC actually got hits in. Like a badass.

Wait...let's back up.

Dan and Rorscach are both superior fighters to Captain America. Both are around or above Steve's durability. So your argument really does fail to hold any weight.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Or he could just power through everything Ozymandias has and beat him into submission. Because that's exactly what will happen. With the shield even more-so.

No, what will happen is Ozy will treat Steve Rogers just like he did Dan: with ease. It will be even worse because Dan is a better fighter, by far, than Steve. Steve's only saving grace is his shield. However, Steve will be disarmed so quickly that he will be shitting himself, while on his back, as Ozy gayly struts away.

😆

I don't if Neme & Darth are joking or not but they're funny as hell