Originally posted by NemeBro
That doesn't mean a whole lot considering they are strong enough to tear any character without a blue dong in Watchmen in half.Ozymandias is strong, but he is being wanked. Captain America fights an army of superhumans and wins.
"Hurdur fighting skill" is an idiotic argument used to get around the fact that the opposition is physically far superior to your side. In this case, Cap>>Oz.
Right, which is what happened when he punched normal men in the movie. Oh wait, that isn't what happened!
Captain America hits far harder than Dan.
More than Oz's, yes.
Ah yes, the reaction-time = Untouchable argument.
That argument is ****ing stupid.
Ozymandias was never portrayed as so fast he could easily dodge and avoid every ****ing blow his opponents threw. He had to resort to blocking or parrying throughout much of his showings, something he isn't doing to a character who could frankly manhandle him. Cap is much stronger than Dan, Rorschach, or even Comedian. Hell, Comedian IIRC actually got hits in. Like a badass.
Or he could just power through everything Ozymandias has and beat him into submission. Because that's exactly what will happen. With the shield even more-so.
Captain America's not strong enough to tear a normal person in half, let alone someone like Oxymandias who is shown to be super-human.
Ozymandias' strength isn't being wanked, he's clearly super-human, unless you think peak-humans can kick people like a soccer ball? Captain America never fought an "army of super-humans", so who's being the wankety wanker now?
Fighting skills matter a lot in a fight like this, it's not like Captain America is THAT far about Ozymandias. Now if it was Superman Vs Blade, sure, your point would be valid. Stop trying to marginalize Ozymandias ridiculously superior fighting ability.
Did you not see how Night Owl was breaking bone with simple punches in the alley scene?
Captain America hits harder than Night Owl, agreed. Him being able to hit Ozymandias with a solid blow is unlikely though.
If we're not idiots and do include that Ozymandias' suit is most likely bullet-proof body-armor like his gloves are, the durability might be close. But again, Ozymandias could be nude here and it'd be the same, Cap's likely not landing a solid blow.
You're saying reaction-time is stupid cos you need it to be. But a guy fast enough to catch a thrown knife, evade a gunmen and then catch a bullet, that matters a lot in a fight like this.
Except he was never hit until he allowed himself to be; even when fighting multiple foes with higher skills than Cap. To say that Captain America is going to cripple Ozymandias when he parry's an attack is ridiculous. Ozymandias is super-human himself and Captain America isn't the Hulk.
Again, beat Ozymandias how when Cap's likely not going to land a single blow that matters? Ozymandias is picking him apart, blow after blow.
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
😆I don't if Neme & Darth are joking or not but they're funny as hell
Well to me this is a joke:
Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Nite Owl, Rorschach, and Comedian are all comparable to Cpt. America in combat, and none of them came close to even touching Ozymandias.
How can Nite Owl, Rorschach, and Comedian be compared to Cap in combat where none of them are anywhere near as strong or as fast as Cap??
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
How can Nite Owl, Rorschach, and Comedian be compared to Cap in combat where none of them are anywhere near as strong or as fast as Cap??
Here's your problem: they are about as strong (maybe slightly weaker) and faster in fighting ability that Captain.
That's your disconnect.
Want me to do a frame by frame punch-speed calc for you?
Find me the fastest punch that Cap threw in a combat situation and I'll calc the speed. If it is not over 300 mph, don't bother bringing it up.
How can Nite Owl, Rorschach, and Comedian be compared to Cap in combat where none of them are anywhere near as strong or as fast as Cap??
they were indeed near his strength. nobody is saying they were as strong or stronger than Cap but to say they weren't "anywhere near as strong" is just plain false.
and they were much faster fighters. Cap only really showed great speed in the car chase scene but not much since then. if this were a race then yeah Cap has them licked but in a fight all that running speed won't do anything for Cap. that's like arguing that since and Olympic sprinter is faster than a professional boxer that he'll win in a fight
Originally posted by juggermanThe only Watchmen I believe you could make a strong case for being as strong as Cap is Ozy.
they were indeed near his strength. nobody is saying they were as strong or stronger than Cap but to say they weren't "anywhere near as strong" is just plain false.and they were much faster fighters. Cap only really showed great speed in the car chase scene but not much since then. if this were a race then yeah Cap has them licked but in a fight all that running speed won't do anything for Cap. that's like arguing that since and Olympic sprinter is faster than a professional boxer that he'll win in a fight
None of the other character come close to the feats Cap could pull off.
Of course I'm not counting Dr. M in this statement
Originally posted by juggerman
and they were much faster fighters. Cap only really showed great speed in the car chase scene but not much since then. if this were a race then yeah Cap has them licked but in a fight all that running speed won't do anything for Cap. that's like arguing that since and Olympic sprinter is faster than a professional boxer that he'll win in a fight
Glad to you see you posting around these parts, duuuuude! Welcome to the MvF.
But, yes, I agree with your point and it was aptly put.
Originally posted by Newjak
The only Watchmen I believe you could make a strong case for being as strong as Cap is Ozy.
And Comedian even at 67.
Edit - In fact, just re-watched Comedian punch through wall tile. I did not catch that, before. He punches through it like broken chalk.
Originally posted by juggerman
Just noticed me? dunno if i should be offended 😛
Originally posted by juggerman
but thank you for the backing here. i always enjoy having the donut man on my team! 🙂
😆
Wooo woooot! Donut Man is a good name. 😄
Originally posted by dadudemonFind me the fastest punch that Cap threw in a combat situation and I'll calc the speed. If it is not over 300 mph, don't bother bringing it up.
Your crazy dude..
Wait you the same guy who was saying Movie Superman is slow and weak becase we didn't see him punch at super speed and because the Bus hit him really slowly? Lol
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Nah it's not close. Cap didn't throw an object through glass. He punched through the glass cover of a submarine himself.He threw a man Vertically upwards from underwater a good 20 feet.
He was lifting 3 women on a motorcycle for an undefined amount of time with the up most of ease.
So Ozy's strength feats do not come close to Cap's (and Ozy's durability feats are nil which I will get to in a sec). Cap would throw around the guys that Ozzy did with utter ease considering his feats.
How are they not comparable? Ozy threw Comedian through a re-inforced plate glass window. The inspector at the scene afterwards said "you'd have to step on the gas just to put a crack in it." Stepping on the gas, in a car, would merely leave a crack in it. Yet Ozy shattered it like a sheet of paper-thin ice by tossing a 225lb man into it. Also, Comedian's build like a football player, the other guy looked very thin in comparison. Stands to reason that Ozy threw the much heavier man as well.
Look, even the Ozy supporters for the most part agree that Cap is stronger, but don't act like Cap has Hulk-like strength compared to Ozy. The difference isn't -that- big.
Cap's clearly much faster than the opponents Ozzy has fought, so it would be silly to assume he would blitz Cap the way he blitzed those none super powered opponents.
Uh I fail to see how Cap was so much faster than Rorschach and Nite Owl. Rorschach was evading bullets IIRC in the police frame-up scene, while Nite Owl was fending off hordes of prisoners and gangsters in his two fight scenes without even being touched before the fight with Ozy.
And if we're going by the "if we don't have feats we assume he can't do it" line of thought, then Ozzy has literally zero durability feats.
It took several hard punches from Nite Owl to merely give Ozy a bloody lip. Keep in mind Nite Owl was breaking limbs and causing compound fractures with casual blows to normal humans. I will give Cap the durability edge though, as IIRC, he did tank more in his movies.
So chances are one good punch from Cap could take him down. And if not, then it's pretty certain a good hit from Cap's shiled would.On the other hand Cap has taken punches from the Red Skull (who punches holes in bullet proof shields) responding "I can do this all day.." and has taken an alien laser blast to the stomach, yet got up a few seconds later to carry on fighting.
So bearing in mind that, his strength, his apparent healing abilities and of course having his shield for protection, chances are he could take a good punishment from Ozzy, whilst the reverse can not be said.
Once again, you are ignoring the massive speed and skill advantage that Ozy possesses over Cap. Cap is stronger and more durable, but that alone isn't enough to give him a win. The Comedian was punching holes through sheet rock (not just shattering, literally holes, his fist went straight into the adjacent room), and Ozy was blocking and countering without any problems whatsoever. If Cap lands a blow, it will hurt Ozy, I agree, but it won't put him down, as Ozy has his own degree of durability as well. And he's going to have a hard time landing a hit against a much faster and more skilled opponent with comparable strength.
People also argue that Cap gains an advantage with the shield. In his fight against Loki he got frustrated quickly once he realised he was fighting a non-jobber.
He threw his shield in frustration and Loki smacked it aside.
I see the same happening here.
Cap throws his shield and Ozy's Slo-mo power kicks in and he jump kicks the shield off its trajectory and it lands aside.
Ozy blocks Cap from the downed shield and himself and proceeds to dismantle him.
Cap may have durability and slight strength advantage. But against an elite tactical fighter with slo-mo capability. He gets his throat kicked in. Then it's just a matter of time before Ozy kills the man he has no history of friendship with.
He didn't kill his ex-teammates because of history and respect. Cap is just some punk off the street to Ozy. He will show no remorse nor restraint/