Originally posted by Newjak
He actually took down three of them on the Cop Car.
You sure it wasn't two on each side?
Originally posted by Newjak
Took down a whole group (5-6) of them easily when he stopped them from throwing a grenade on a crowd.
He was even able to jump up and place himself completely behind his shield before the Gernade went off.
I don't see such a feat helping in regards to this particular fight.
Originally posted by Newjak He was skilled and acrobatic in the Avengers.
Just because Cap wasn't flashy doesn't mean he was terrible. He was obviously meant to be a great fighter which is what he showed.[/B]
He ran. explosions happened around him. And even an explosion resulted in a car lifting up beneath him so he could do a somersault.
Yes acrobatic but stunt work that won't help here.
Originally posted by Newjak Also it wasn't like Loki was an unskilled fighter. We see in Thor/Avengers he is very capable in H2H/Melee/Range combat.Add to the fact that he is bullet proof and much stronger than a normal being then it's not exactly a bad showing for Cap to be losing to someone like that.
Loki would have torn the entire cast of Watchmen, Minus Dr. M, apart.[/B]
I agree Loki would've killed the Watchmen. But it was his skill in the fight I was referring to. Ozy would easily avoid a thrown shield and showed the strength and agility to jump and kick it aside off it's trajectory like Loki did with a casual staff swipe.
Originally posted by Newjak
Normal Human beings can break Bone and I've seen the video it wasn't brick that Comedian broke through. And even if it was it's still something a normal human being could do.[/B]
What do you think it was? Tile and plaster? And in regards to the bone snapping and the other Watchmen's feats. the best MAers of today would have a hard time replicating such feats.
Originally posted by Newjak Obviously they are better than humans but not by much and definitely not to the same extent Cap was. Or are you forgetting that Rosharch got taken by a police force something that would have never happened to Cap in the same Scenario.[/B]
An unarmed Cap? Rorschach didn't want to kill cops. But he was willing to hurt them to escape. But once overwhelmed by a whole squad of guys he got pelted down. Cap surrounded by such cops would eventually be forced into capture as well. That is without the shield. With the shield he would've had to give up regardless. It would have eventuated into the same situation he was in when caught between the HYDRA flamethrowers.
Originally posted by Newjak They aren't comparable to any degree to what Cap has shown in terms of physical stats. The only person who has is Ozy. [/B]
And Ozy, is who he is fighting. Ozy would've eventually been captured by so many cops as well. Some armed, many with clubs. Ozy wouldn't kill/break cops just to escape a surrounded building. And eventually a street situation surrounded by police. It was a trap!
Originally posted by the ninjakIt could have been two one each side, but I definitely know Cap took down more than two when he was on top of the cop car.
You sure it wasn't two on each side?I don't see such a feat helping in regards to this particular fight.
He ran. explosions happened around him. And even an explosion resulted in a car lifting up beneath him so he could do a somersault.
Yes acrobatic but stunt work that won't help here.I agree Loki would've killed the Watchmen. But it was his skill in the fight I was referring to. Ozy would easily avoid a thrown shield and showed the strength and agility to jump and kick it aside off it's trajectory like Loki did with a casual staff swipe.
What do you think it was? Tile and plaster? And in regards to the bone snapping and the other Watchmen's feats. the best MAers of today would have a hard time replicating such feats.
An unarmed Cap? Rorschach didn't want to kill cops. But he was willing to hurt them to escape. But once overwhelmed by a whole squad of guys he got pelted down. Cap surrounded by such cops would eventually be forced into capture as well. That is without the shield. With the shield he would've had to give up regardless. It would have eventuated into the same situation he was in when caught between the HYDRA flamethrowers.
And Ozy, is who he is fighting. Ozy would've eventually been captured by so many cops as well. Some armed, many with clubs. Ozy wouldn't kill/break cops just to escape a surrounded building. And eventually a street situation surrounded by police. It was a trap!
He took down a group of Aliens with H2H skill and showed his quickness and agility something people have talked about in this fight acting like Cap is slow.
Cap's skill was fine with Loki, he was taking a on a much physically superior opponent who was also extremely skilled as shown multiple times. The fact Cap could hang with him at all is a testament to his skill.
It definitely didn't look like brick. The point is a normal human being could cause the same damage as what the Watchmen did without the need of Superhuman Strength. On the other hand besides OZy none of them actually showed any feats that show them in Cap's Strength range or close to it.
You do realize Cap wanted to get captured at the Hydra Base. Cap would have totally been able to not get captured like Rorsh did. He was handling squads of guys in his movie and squads of Aliens, with much better firepower than cops, in the Avengers. A squad of Cops would have been a plaything to him.
I know the thread is Cap vs Ozy but people keep acting like the other three Watchmen would be able to Match Cap. They wouldn't Cap was just as skilled is not more as what those guys were showing plus a hell of a lot better in physical stats. I don't see the night owl, rorsh, comedian pulling off the same feats Cap did or even close to it.
Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
No its not ridiculous.
only reason comedian lasted as long as he did was because he himself was an amazing fighter also farrrr better than cap & was still viciously beaten
So now Comedian's > Cap???
Omg so now forget Ozzy but we're dicussing Rorsh, Night Owl, and Comedian vs Cap???
You guys really think 3 peak humans can match Cap.
None of those 3 could move fast enough to chase cars and planes.
And strength isn't even a comparison.
And yes Cap can fight. Don't be so foolish to think he can't.
Originally posted by RobtardWow an extreme statement to make a point.
Okay, I'm convinced now, Captain America hit Ozymandias once and Ozymandias explodes into a ball on rainbow confetti.
Ever since watching the videos I have not said that Ozy will be one shotted cause Ozy is obviously Superhuman. The rest of the bunch not so much.
Breaking human bones is something normal people do sometimes by accident or do you remember a certain ifghter breaking his own leg while kicking someone. Punching through an interior portion of an apartment is not exactly impossible for a decently built human being. Yet these are feats that apparently make them equal or close Cap in strength. And their skill consists of Comedian getting his head pushed in by Ozy, Night Owl and Silk Specter beating a group of thugs which is action star 101. Rorschach beating some more thugs. Of course Rorsh and Night Owl both got their guts beaten to a pulp by the one human shown to have legit no normal human being could pull this off Superhuman feats.
I doubt Comedian, Night Owl, and Rorsh would have been able to beat Ozy together with the way they portrayed him.
Yet I'm supposed to believe Captain America who has better strength feats than Ozy, yes throwing someone out of the water 15 feet into the airwhile only being able to tread water is better, can take on entire squadrons of Aliens with advanced technology with only his shield and H2H ability, and has superhuman agility and reflexes, the guy can run down a speeding car and launch his shield with such precision he can keep a door around a corner from closing by wedging it in something a second difference in timing could have made, yet he could not pull off the same feat Ozy did because you believe Ozy is so much quicker and more skilled because he is flashier and caught a bullet he knew was going to be coming at him.
Yes I believe Cap can beat those three if Ozy can. Even if you don't believe Ozy can I still believe Cap could.
Ozy and Cap would be a tough fight though.
Originally posted by 0mega SpawnChasing down a speeding car on foot. Being able to launch a human being 15 feet into the air while treading water. Taking on Squadrons of Aliens with laser rifles. Lasting more than a minute with Loki in H2H. Jumping something like 40-60 feet across an exploding room. Tearing restraints off with ease like he did with Bucky. Holding unto a plane while it's traveling in the air.
wtf did cap do that the watchmen as you said couldnt come close to?
Ozy could possibly do that but not the others.
Cap not even being able to win 1 out of 1000 is a bit of a stretch IMO. I think this will be a long fight, as Cap's strength and durability will be able to let him hang for a bit. But I still stand by my belief that Ozy would win a clear majority against Cap.
The other street-level Watchmen clearly aren't in the same league as Cap (Comedian could be close), but Ozy is still noticeably higher.
Originally posted by The Silent HeroThe sub was out from the edge by a little bit and on the bottom of the river so unless Cap hauled that back with him, even more impressive than the feat I described, he threw him out of the watir without any foot holds.
What's so remarkable about him throwing that guy out of the water? He probably planted his feet on the mini-sub beneath him.
Even if he did have footholds vertical pressing an average sized guy 15 feet in the air is still pretty epic.
Originally posted by DarkNemesisI can respect that.
Cap not even being able to win 1 out of 1000 is a bit of a stretch IMO. I think this will be a long fight, as Cap's strength and durability will be able to let him hang for a bit. But I still stand by my belief that Ozy would win a clear majority against Cap.The other street-level Watchmen clearly aren't in the same league as Cap (Comedian could be close), but Ozy is still noticeably higher.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That's a pretty ridiculous assessment.
No, contradicting what I have stated is ridiculous.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Ozy was never shown to be an untouchable speedster.
I would not word it as an "untouchable speedster".
I would word it more like, "Ozy has shown to be fast and skilled enough that the likes of Steve Rogers will never be able to land a hit."
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Is Ozy faster based on movie feats and portrayals? Yes of course he is.
Finally, a concession.
But Ozy is not just "faster". He's much faster. To the tune of multiple times faster, based on his movie feats. Ozy is not as fast as Quicksilver, from DC, for sure...I cannot think of a comparable character, though.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But claiming Cap doesn't have a hope of even landing one hit and therefore even getting 1 win out of a thousand is over rating the speed factor here to insane levels.
No, saying Captain can land a single hit in 1000 fights is overrating Steve.
Originally posted by juggerman
Night Owl and Rorshach were both breaking bones with punches iirc and Comedian punched a chunk of brick off the wall when fighting Ozy without the least bit of discomfort.These guys are strong as heck and all were very skilled fighters. Comedian imo did better than Dan and Walter against Ozy since it seemed that Ozy focused more and was actually trying to kill him as opposed to talking and holding back like he did against the two and Comedian still lasted a while.
Cap has some fighting skill i think we can all agree on that. But he has not shown any fighting skill comparable to any of the Watchmen. Given that all the Watchmen are much superior fighters and at the very least have some what comparable strength it is a huge strech to say Cap can take more than one at a time let alone 3
Let us also note that Comedian was drinking before Ozy busted in his sh*t. 🙂
Originally posted by Newjak
Just because Cap wasn't flashy doesn't mean he was terrible. He was obviously meant to be a great fighter which is what he showed.
I agree, here. I do not think Steve is a slouch. That would be dumb.
Originally posted by Newjak
Normal Human beings can break Bone
But not in the way that was portrayed in the film, of course.
Originally posted by Newjak
and I've seen the video it wasn't brick that Comedian broke through.
I believe it was tile. It may have been brick. I would have to rewatch it. It does not matter, though: it's still on par with what Agent Smith was doing in the first Matrix Film.
Originally posted by Newjak
And even if it was it's still something a normal human being could do.
LOL!
No.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
None of those 3 could move fast enough to chase cars and planes.
I have destroyed this fail attempt from you, already: they are 3 superhumans, not peak humans. 🙂
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And strength isn't even a comparison.
It is. Comedian, Ozy, Rorscach, Nightowl...they are all in the ballpark of Steve's strength.
Originally posted by dadudemonI have destroyed this fail attempt from you, already: they are 3 superhumans, not peak humans. 🙂
When? Show me once when those 3 move fast enough to chase cars and planes?!
Originally posted by dadudemon
It is. Comedian, Ozy, Rorscach, Nightowl...they are all in the ballpark of Steve's strength.
For God's sakes whats wrong with you?! Rorscach got subdued by a few policemen. NightOwl never showed any superhuman strength. Let alone strength that even comes close to Caps.
And didn't you already admit Cap is stronger than Ozy?? So how now do the much less powerful 3 come close to Cap's strength. You have absolutely zero feats to base such a ridiculous assumption on.
Here for the hundreth time:
Cap lifts a motorbike and 3 women easily for an extended period of time. Cap punches through a Submarine. Cap sends people flying with a slight hit. Where on Earth did Comedian, Ozy, Rorscach, Nightowl show strength even close to that. And where did any of them show movement fast enough to chase cars and even planes??
Your arguments have gone from bad to just total lunacy now.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
When? Show me once when those 3 move fast enough to chase cars and planes?!
Go back through the thread that you have been posting in for ages: do not ask troll questions like this one because I'm not playing your troll games. Find it yourself if you have already forgotten: why ask me to do you work for you again? 😐
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
For God's sakes whats wrong with you?! Rorscach got subdued by a few policemen.
HAHAHAHA!
"just a few" huh?
hahahahaha
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
NightOwl never showed any superhuman strength. Let alone strength that even comes close to Caps.
He sure did. Please read the thread before you continue to make dumb comments like these.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And didn't you already admit Cap is stronger than Ozy??
Let's see what I said:
Originally posted by dadudemon
I also do not think Ozy is very far off from Cap's strength level.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I estimated, a couple of years back, his strength to be between 1-2 ton class. About where Steve is.
And here's my final say on the matter:
Originally posted by dadudemon
I cannot conclude that the Captain is stronger. I can debate both sides.Just to give the Captain fanboys SOMETHING, I'll give them the edge in strength.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So how now do the much less powerful 3 come close to Cap's strength. You have absolutely zero feats to base such a ridiculous assumption on.
Correction: how do 3 characters, all 3 of which are around the same strength as Steve Rogers but vastly outclass Steve's fighting ability, come close to Steve's strength? By being about his strength, of course. 😐
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Here for the hundreth time:Cap lifts a motorbike and 3 women easily for an extended period of time. Cap punches through a Submarine. Cap sends people flying with a slight hit. Where on Earth did Comedian, Ozy, Rorscach, Nightowl show strength even close to that. And where did any of them show movement fast enough to chase cars and even planes??
hmm. If you would have been paying attention, you would see strength feats that put Nightowl, Comedian, and Rorschach all on the same level...and some with very similar feats to Steve. 😐
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Your arguments have gone from bad to just total lunacy now.
Your arguments have gone from bad arguments to recycled bad arguments with a dash of "oops, I forgot everything talked about in this thread!"
Originally posted by dadudemon
Correction: how do 3 characters, all 3 of which are around the same strength as Steve Rogers but vastly outclass Steve's fighting ability, come close to Steve's strength? By being about his strength, of course. 😐hmm. If you would have been paying attention, you would see strength feats that put Nightowl, Comedian, and Rorschach all on the same level...and some with very similar feats to Steve. 😐
Your arguments have gone from bad arguments to recycled bad arguments with a dash of "oops, I forgot everything talked about in this thread!"
There haven't been any strength feats from those 3 that even approach Caps.
What's their greatest lifting feat? When did they send guys flying all over the place.
Don't give me that I haven't been paying attention crap. Tell me what's their greatest lifting feat. And yes Rorschach got subdued by just a few policemen in the end. It was only 2 or 3 holding him when he was unmasked. And when he hit them they didn't exactly go flying. Cap would have been throwing those guys all over the place.
Jeez the Watchmen wanking has gone into overdrive now. If Batman was in Watchmen you'd be telling me he's as strong as Steve too. And btw Nite Owl is just a poor man's Batman.
