Ozymandias vs Captain America

Started by Newjak14 pages

Originally posted by juggerman
Because most of Cap's fighting cosisted of bullrushing opponents and basically bullying them using his superior strength. I don't recall Cap using any actual skill on offense or defense. He basically fought as any untrained person would fight given his serum.

The reason i say his skill is well below those of the Watchmen is because while they were stronger than normal humans they were not super and relied on superior fighting ability to win fights rather than overly superior stats.

Had Cap been of normal human strength (or even slightly above as i consider the Watchmen) he would have had his sh!t pushed in at every turn while the Watchmen were at that level and kicked ass

My point is Cap relied too heavily on his strength while fighting and didn't seem to develop much skill. He would have trouble getting his hands on any of these guys to bully them as he did others. While the Watchmen would have no problem tagging Cap over and over again.

And Ozymandias was head and shoulders above the rest

I can see where you are coming from except,

I've seen Cap disarm two knife guys easily while dodging and using skill to get them away.

He also expertly threw a knife into a guy's back for another skill feat.

He was able to take down squads of advanced Aliens where his stats weren't the be all end all.

Also for someone who just 'bullrushed' through people he didn't get hit a lot which typically happens a lot to bullrushers.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So clearly you missed this:

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Clearly, you missed this:

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And yes Rorschach got subdued by just a few policemen in the end. It was only 2 or 3 holding him when he was unmasked.

Clearly, you said it took 2 or 3 to subdue him and you are differentiating subduing with the unmasking portion. So, nice try, but I just caught you trying to backpeddle just to be right. 🙂

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
LOL Thats your strength feat! HAHAHA.. He kicked him down the stairs.

No...that's not it.

"Rorschach, with a single hit, knocked a police officer about 6 feet into 3 other officers. That cop's inertia was so great that it also knocked back 3 other officers, 3-4 feat, who then, all four, smacked up against the wall (meaning there was further inertia still left over). That was seen in the video, that was screen-shotted for you, and yet, you still deny it. Stop trolling."

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
A hard hit by human standards? Sure. Super human. Nah. Anything even close to Cap's strength feats? Nah.

"Wrong. Rorschach, with a single hit, knocked a police officer about 6 feet into 3 other officers. That cop's inertia was so great that it also knocked back 3 other officers, 3-4 feat, who then, all four, smacked up against the wall (meaning there was further inertia still left over). That was seen in the video, that was screen-shotted for you, and yet, you still deny it. Stop trolling."

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Oh and where's the lifting feat I asked for btw??

"Rorschach, with a single hit, knocked a police officer about 6 feet into 3 other officers. That cop's inertia was so great that it also knocked back 3 other officers, 3-4 feat, who then, all four, smacked up against the wall (meaning there was further inertia still left over). That was seen in the video, that was screen-shotted for you, and yet, you still deny it. Stop trolling."

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Oh that's right.. Doesn't exist.

"Wrong. Rorschach, with a single hit, knocked a police officer about 6 feet into 3 other officers. That cop's inertia was so great that it also knocked back 3 other officers, 3-4 feat, who then, all four, smacked up against the wall (meaning there was further inertia still left over). That was seen in the video, that was screen-shotted for you, and yet, you still deny it. Stop trolling."

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You've lost the feat war here.

"Wrong. Rorschach, with a single hit, knocked a police officer about 6 feet into 3 other officers. That cop's inertia was so great that it also knocked back 3 other officers, 3-4 feat, who then, all four, smacked up against the wall (meaning there was further inertia still left over). That was seen in the video, that was screen-shotted for you, and yet, you still deny it. Stop trolling."

"Wrong. Multiple feats have been listed and you ignored them. Captain America does not have a strength feat that matches kicking someone, into the air and in an arch, from a stand-still, 20-30 feat. Nor does he have a feat of tanking, similar hits. Based on combat strength feats, Captain America is actually inferior, by far, to Ozymandias."

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
As in seriously lost big time.

Wrong.

"It’s very difficult for you to continually deny what was clearly on-screen. You’d have to be absurdly desperate and or just plain dumb to ignore what was onscreen. I’ll give you a hint: you’re desperate. "

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Move on.

"You constantly ignoring feats makes it impossible for you to admit fault and concede."

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Lets get back to Ozy where strength might actually be comparable.

"Multiple feats have been listed and you ignored them. Captain America does not have a strength feat that matches kicking someone, into the air and in an arch, from a stand-still, 20-30 feat. Nor does he have a feat of tanking, similar hits. Based on combat strength feats, Captain America is actually inferior, by far, to Ozymandias."

Uh-oh, it looks like dadudemon has got stuck on repeat. Quick, someone give him a few sharp whacks! That always fixes the problem.

I've seen Cap disarm two knife guys easily while dodging and using skill to get them away.

i do not recall this as i've only seen Captain America once and it was on opening night. If you could post a clip that would be helpful. I can search it tonight if not

He also expertly threw a knife into a guy's back for another skill feat.

Not a h2h skill feat. And i wouldn't say it was a skill feat at all seeing as how the serum increased his senses (including sight) which im guessing increases his accuracy and the throw itself was enhanced by his strength. All given to him by the serum. No actual skill required

He was able to take down squads of advanced Aliens where his stats weren't the be all end all.

He was still physically superior to the aliens. And let's be honest these aliens were getting beat down by Black Widow and Hawkeye fairly easily. It would only make sense that Cap would thrash them

Also for someone who just 'bullrushed' through people he didn't get hit a lot which typically happens a lot to bullrushers.

You saying he didn't bullrush? Really? And you are right he didn't get hit much but CIS soldiers he fought against really weren't the best of fighters either.

Point is the only people that he fought that were near, on or above his level he didn't beat so easily or at all. When his "I hit you and you go flying never to be seen again" isn't in effect he gets a beating.

Ozymandias fought 4 people near/on his strength level (2 of them at the same time mind you) and didn't even break a sweat. He effortlessly killed Comedian and gave a speech while schooling Danny and Walter.

BTW i only said "4" due to the fact Specter was there and tried to kill him which failed horribly

Originally posted by Newjak
So you just compared trained soldiers to tic-tac-toe???? And Swat members to Chess???

You really think there is that big a difference???

Oh really?

"towards the end of the war, many of these divisions were either incomplete or poorly equipped"

"the ill-equipped German soldiers began stealing winter clothes and boots from POWs (also from civilians)"

And even as far back as 1939:

"The German troops were unprepared, poorly equipped and had orders to retreat if the French offered any resistance."

Despite Germany's prolific war-machine even up to 1945, they were plagued with poorly trained soldiers, lack of equipment, and lack of supplies.

Contrast this with highly trained and heavily equipped SWAT Teams that built their tactics and equipment off of the results of thousands of battles and knowledge from thousands to tens of thousands of commanding officers. SWAT Teams are pretty badass.

Originally posted by Newjak
Now while I do agree that Swat members do train for urban style tactics more Soldiers are trained for Urban combat as well. Acting like there is such a large disparity in ability based solely on setting by profession is incorrect.

That's not true. The soldiers in Captain America were pretty dumb. They seem much closer to the idiocy seen in the real German ranks. The SWAT personnel acted quite professionally. Even when they were taking down Rorschach, they still had at least 3 individuals with guns pointed directly at ol' Rory. Even the approach to the apartment was rather standard SWAT Procedure (minus the use of a sledge hammer...that was an injection of movie props for coolness).

Fact is, there is quite a bit of difference between the fodder Captain America beat down and the SWAT Team Rorschach beat upon.

Originally posted by Newjak
Also the mentality of the Hydra agents only displayed point and shoot tactics is in itself a bad idea. We know for a fact that those same Hydra Agents were able to capture many US men.

Poorly equipped and ill-trained US men. It is no secret that the US had many blunders in the Pacific Campaign.

Originally posted by Newjak
Also the Swat team in essence showed the same 'point and shoot' tactics as the hydra agents.

Not true, even slightly. They had all exits guarded. They brought body armor and face masks. They all had their guns aimed at the door. Rorschach anticipated their approach (classic SWAT tactics). Generally, it is a "bust open the door and then clear the entrance." But Rorschach knew the tactic and opened the door forcing their dude to get his hammer stuck in the ground (for dramatic effect...that's why the use battering rams or shotgun blasts to the hinges). They also kept him surrounded at all times (as possible) and always had people with guns trained on him. They were highly coordinated in their efforts against Rorschach: hardly the coordination we saw from Nazi soldiers and Hydra.

Originally posted by Newjak
Basically all they did was line up and attempt to shoot Rorsh until Rorsh was in plain view then I they just threw themselves at him until they overpowered him. Not exactly expertly executed and planned maneuvers.

That's not what happened, though, so there's no problem, there. 🙂

Originally posted by Newjak
Also when you say 1-2 lifter you mean tons? So I will ask you to think of an animal than can move and lift 1-2 tons and ask you to think about how 2-4 humans could overpower said animal.

YouTube video

And yet, we wrestle these gentle-looking beasts through leverage techniques. Hint: by pulling out Rorschach's arms, like he was on a crucifix (hint, that was supposed to be symbolic of what Rorschach represents in the movie), he lost all of his leverage in his arms: your arms are at their weakest when stretched out like that. Also, by keeping him seated, he loses all leverage in his legs.

Similar to a "cowboy" torquing the horns to force a steer over.

YouTube video

Originally posted by Newjak
The animal I can think as close would probably be a bear and a full grown bear with that kind of strength is not getting overpowered by 4 humans.

I think 4 humans, armed with batons, automatic rifles, and body armor, could easily take down a bear. I think it would only take one, really. 🙂

Originally posted by Newjak
Anyways based on what I've seen I still don't think the 3 Watchmen we are discussing Night Owl, Rorsh, Comedian should be considered Superhuman at least not in the same vein as Captain America.

I disagree based on movie feats. They not only have superhuman strength, they have superhuman durability.

If you can find me a single human that can kick another, from standing still, so hard that they fly 20-30 feet and then smack a marble wall (and break some of the marble like a sledge hitting it), then I'll admit I am wrong about the superhuman qualities.

However, I know it is impossible for both the strength portion and the durability portion for any human to do that. Our heads/bodies would splatter against the marble/rock before it would shatter like that.

Originally posted by Newjak
Everything they did a well built well trained Human being could do. Now I will admit there is a certain oomph they posses that would be hard for a normal human to duplicate but the feats themselves are still squarely with human range.

Originally posted by Newjak
Let's actually break it down by their best feats.

Rorsh: Kicking the man back into the other cops
-A good feet but you could hit a man into a group of people causing them to fall backwards into a wall. I've seen it happen before where someone goes flying into a group of people after being being pushed and everyone kind of falls over.

"Rorschach, with a single hit, knocked a police officer about 6 feet into 3 other officers. That cop's inertia was so great that it also knocked back 3 other officers, 3-4 feat, who then, all four, smacked up against the wall (meaning there was further inertia still left over)."

That feat, alone, puts him comfortably in the 1-2 ton class.

Originally posted by Newjak
Night Owl: Breaking a person's bone.
-I've already pointed out how a normal human being has broken his own leg by kicking someone else, I'm sure you can find other examples as well.

And I pointed out (I believe) that breaking bones in the manner they did is just not possible.

I rewatched the scene and at one point, Dan punches a dude so hard in the shin that it breaks the dude's shit backwards. That's just not possible by even peak human standards of punching because the due was standing up with his knee bent towards Dan.

Originally posted by Newjak
Comedian: Punching through a tile wall
-I don't know why this keeps getting brought. Honestly out of the three feats mentioned this is the least impressive. I don't know how you get the idea tile is so durable but human beings can punch through cinder blocks and bricks and wooden boards. Tile is not out of that range. Plus we can clearly see that when the Comedian Punches through the wall it's basically dry-wall and plaster. I've punched through a wall like that.

Where did I get the idea? heh

Mostly because I have punched tile, myself. There is no way a human is sending a fist through and shattering tile like it's chalk like Comedian did. Your fist would shatter long before the tile. That smaller tile is even harder to break. Once it is in place, like it was on film, cracking it with your bare fists right on the edge, much less pulverizing it into powder like Comedian did, would be difficult with a decent swing with a hammer. I just got done busting up 900 square feat of tile: trust me, I know. I promise you that at no point, even with a sledge, did I pulverize the tile into a fine powder/dust like Comedian did. Using the sledge I was already 'superhuman' in what I was doing. Using my fist to do that? That's just stupid ridiculous. It is probably the single greatest strength feat in the film. The durability, alone, required to accomplish that punch, is many times greater than a humans: much less the pascals required to accomplish what it did.

Originally posted by Newjak
Now once again the oomph and ease they did it with was impressive, but not out of the range of what a human being can do.

I agree on the first part but the second part is factually incorrect.

Originally posted by Newjak
Let's compare it to one of Captain America's feats though, I wouldn't call it his best feat either.

When he lifts the motor cycle over his head with the 3-4 woman sitting on it. That's probably at least 900 pounds maybe up to 1100 pounds he is doing that with. Even if you want to be conservative and say that it was only 700 pounds, that's being very conservative to, it's extremely impressive.

Based on how it was wobbling, it looked like it was being held in place and he was just putting his hands underneath a prop on a set (I am referring to the in-universe setting, not describing how they pulled that off on a real set). I am more inclined to pay attention to his metal bar bending feat because it wasn't on a stage.

Originally posted by Newjak
How impressive? Well every time I tried to find an overhead press record it generally falls into the realm of 550 plus pounds being the biggest numbers I find. We're talking the strongest men in the world using items made for lifting struggling to keep the weight above the head for a full one second lockout.

I agree that if that feat is real (and not a stage thing they were doing as part of their traveling show), it is quite strong. But, honestly, it is not nearly as strong as the cop-kicking feat from Rorschach or the shin busting punching from Dan. Those do not even come close to the kicking brought by Ozymandias against Rorschach, however.

Originally posted by Newjak
While Captain America could have been doing roughly twice as much weight, using items that are harder to lift and maintain balance, and doing it without breaking a sweat.

That's the big difference between Captain America and the three from Watchmen everything they did in the Watchmen could have been done by a human being even if it would have been difficult while Captain America did things no human being has even come close to doing much less with the ease he did it with.

I agree: the big difference is that the Watcman have far more powerful feats.

However, I just say that they are "roughly the same" to be nice to the Captain American fanboys: their jimmies get quite rustled if I bring up the actual physics of what is going on.

Originally posted by Newjak
IMO the difference in strength isn't close between Cap and the rest of the Watchmen based on that.

I agree. But for the exact opposite reasons.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh-oh, it looks like dadudemon has got stuck on repeat. Quick, someone give him a few sharp whacks! That always fixes the problem.

You mean Darth is stuck on repeat so I only have to copy-pasta my replies. 🙂

But you're more than welcome to give me a few "whacks". Rawr. It will be like Niagara Falls: bring towels.

Yeah because the Hydra Soldiers were so obviously ill equipped, considering they had laser rifles I'm going to go with that wiki paragraph you posted has no bearing on it.

You keep acting like the soldiers were dumb the soldiers were dumb, yet the SWAT team who was literally counting out their breach timing to Rorsh is considered efficient? Since they came with Body armor that's what makes them better, some of the heavier Hydra soldiers had bullet proof armor on.

You do realize that the bull in the car lifting video is much bigger than steer in the cowboy video who don't even look fully grown considering a full grown steer can weigh up to 1200 pounds and those things as listed in a steer wrestling article typically weight between 450 - 650 pounds.

You really think 4 humans can hold down a grizzyly bear like they were doing to Rorsh? A grizzy would kill them.

As for the feats you are over exaggerating them. Rorsh caught an unaware swat member kicked him back into his team mates. Something I've seen before.

I human being has broken his shin bone just by kicking another human before so your idea that a human can not generate enough force to do it is wrong because it has happened.

And I've done the Comedian punch through a wall. Yeah my hand was bruised and swelled up and bleed a little but I was able to do it. Not trying to say I'm some bad ass superman athlete. What I'm trying to say is if I can do it I guarantee there are plenty of other people in the world who can also do it.

Also some of that powder wasn't the tile it was the plaster/dry-wall behind the tile.

Like I said that isn't even Cap's best feat. Holding unto the wing of a plane while it is speeding along is better, throwing a man from the water up 15 feet in the air without a foothold is better, bending the metal bar. I did the motorcycle one because it was the easiest to come up with actually numbers for to drive the point home, and no I don't think he was just holding a prop up.

Those feats happened and those are feats that no human can do. Everything the watchmen did minus Ozy human beings can do because I've seen the rough equivalent of human beings doing it.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think 4 humans, armed with batons, automatic rifles, and body armor, could easily take down a bear. I think it would only take one, really. 🙂

Wouldn't that depend on the type of bear though? For example, the San Francisco bear. While smaller than most other members of his genus, he is more intelligent and agile:

Was watching Batman Begins again last night (catching up on the first 2 again before TDKR this wknd) and honestly Batman has better strength and speed feats than Rorschach and NiteOwl.

He lifts Laim Neeson with one arm in a bicep curl motion. The watchmen don't have any lifting feats like that.

And he actually does fight multiple opponents simultaneously. While surrounded and you hardly see him move he's so fast.

And he was actually surrounded while fighting them all off simultaneosuly. They wernt one behind the other.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yeah because the Hydra Soldiers were so obviously ill equipped, considering they had laser rifles I'm going to go with that wiki paragraph you posted has no bearing on it.

Wiki paragraph? What Wiki paragraph?
And “ill-equipped” was not my original argument. Just to make sure, do you know what my original argument was?

Originally posted by Newjak
You keep acting like the soldiers were dumb the soldiers were dumb,

Cause they were. They were cannon fodder. 🙂 That was their purpose in the film.

Originally posted by Newjak
yet the SWAT team who was literally counting out their breach timing to Rorsh is considered efficient?

And they were to know that Rorschach was right at the door listening? You're looking at that scene from an outsider's perspective: not the in-character's perspective. You really can’t do that. Also, real SWAT teams do the countdown, as well. That is partially to function as a warning to the occupants to “GTFO” or at least get away from the door. They were responding to a 187 and 419. They were also following up on a string of supposed murders/criminal activity.

Originally posted by Newjak
Since they came with Body armor that's what makes them better, some of the heavier Hydra soldiers had bullet proof armor on.

Yes, that makes them better. The hydra he fought H2H did not have bullet proof armor on their bodies. You’re more than welcome to prove me wrong with proof-positive evidence. This would be something I would love to be proved wrong on: I cannot find videos.

Originally posted by Newjak
You do realize that the bull in the car lifting video is much bigger than steer in the cowboy video who don't even look fully grown considering a full grown steer can weigh up to 1200 pounds and those things as listed in a steer wrestling article typically weight between 450 - 650 pounds.

Ummmm…I think you missed the point. There is also Steer saddling and those events routinely have steers over 1000lbs (which includes wrestling the Steer). That’s not the point, however. The point was to illustrate the leverage that can be used against that type of animal. I think you had to actually go out of your way to miss my point.

Originally posted by Newjak
You really think 4 humans can hold down a grizzyly bear like they were doing to Rorsh? A grizzy would kill them.

Did you say “grizzly” bear? No. You said “…full grown bear.” Why change the scenario? I was assuming you meant the most common North American Bear: the America Black Bear. It is a middle of the road bear...so seems like a logical choice.

Originally posted by Newjak
As for the feats you are over exaggerating them. Rorsh caught an unaware swat member kicked him back into his team mates. Something I've seen before.

Really? You’ve seen the following:
“Rorschach, with a single hit, knocked a police officer about 6 feet into 3 other officers. That cop's inertia was so great that it also knocked back 3 other officers, 3-4 feat, who then, all four, smacked up against the wall (meaning there was further inertia still left over).” Cause, if you have, that would be a superhuman feat you witnessed. You, my friend, have witnessed a superhuman if you have seen that.
Originally posted by Newjak
I human being has broken his shin bone just by kicking another human before so your idea that a human can not generate enough force to do it is wrong because it has happened.

You missed the point entirely: unless they have a bone density problem (a legit medical issue), a human’s metacarpals are not even near thick enough to snap shin bones with a punch: especially when the person is leaning forward with their knee bent. The angle was also front on, not to the side where it would be easiest to snap the shin bones. I could see a human pulling this off if they were a 145 Kg professional boxer punching the shins of a skinny 1.6 meter tall male.

Originally posted by Newjak
And I've done the Comedian punch through a wall.

So have I. I could do it through 2 layers of sheet rock no problem. But that siding stuff he has on the wall (it looked like braided reed stuff) would make it nearly impossible for me to punch through even a layer. The fact that he punched through two layers and that braided reed stuff is quite impressive, but that alone does not make him superhuman. The ease at which he did it (he did not have very good punching leverage when he threw those punches) and the method with which he threw those punches, however, is superhuman.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yeah my hand was bruised and swelled up and bleed a little but I was able to do it.

My don’t swell, bruise, or bleed when I do it. I’m not peak human, either. You’re just weak. uhuh

Originally posted by Newjak
Not trying to say I'm some bad ass superman athlete. What I'm trying to say is if I can do it I guarantee there are plenty of other people in the world who can also do it.

I agree. But punching through sheetrock and punching through 2 layers of braided reeds and sheetrock at a crappy angle without much punching leverage is quite impressive. Punching though small tile, at the corner, like he did, however, is literally impossible for a human.

Originally posted by Newjak
Also some of that powder wasn't the tile it was the plaster/dry-wall behind the tile.

I agree. That powder was not just the pulerized tile. It was also comprised of the drywall, grout, and probably some thinset.

Originally posted by Newjak
Like I said that isn't even Cap's best feat.

I think his best strength feat is bending those metal railings.
Originally posted by Newjak
Holding unto the wing of a plane while it is speeding along is better,

No, that’s not even a superhuman feat. I would throw that one out.

Originally posted by Newjak
throwing a man from the water up 15 feet in the air without a foothold is better,

I do not remember him doing that. Maybe 8 feet, but I do not remember a 15 foot throw. That pales, vastly, in comparison to kicking a person; from standing straight up, from a standstill; 20-30 feet and that person hitting solid stone so hard that it pulverizes and crumbles some of the stone.
Originally posted by Newjak
bending the metal bar.

Yes, that was his best strength feat, I believe. Without doing any math, I think that puts him comfortably in the 1-2 ton class.
Originally posted by Newjak
I did the motorcycle one because it was the easiest to come up with actually numbers for to drive the point home, and no I don't think he was just holding a prop up.

Of course you do not think he was just holding a prop up. But it looks like a stage prop, within the movie, and was being done as such. I don’t think (again, within the universe of the movie, not from a ‘literal’ real world assessment) it was intended to show him lifting it up. It was just a pose thing they did as part of their travel.

Originally posted by Newjak
Those feats happened and those are feats that no human can do.

If the throw is 15 feet, that’s probably just outside of peak human strength...depending on how much the dude weighed that he threw. All the others I agree are superhuman.

Originally posted by Newjak
Everything the watchmen did … human beings can do

Incorrect. The punching through the sheetrock: no human can do that from the position he did it. Just like no human could throw those dudes 15 feet from a standstill like Captain America did.

No human could punch through the wall tile like the Comedian did. No human could kick or punch a 90 Kg person 5-6 feet (and carry enough weight to knock 3 other 90 Kg humans back 3 feet with enough momentum to make them smack up against the wall).

No human can punch the shin; from standing straight up, without a leveraged “power-punch” like a boxer, from a straight-on punch; of a person standing forward with their knee bent and break the shin bones like twigs (unless the “victim” has osteoporosis”, lol). No human can kick another human; from a complete stand-still, straight up; 20-30 feet and that victim still has enough speed to crumble solid stone walls. No human has the ability to jump 15-20 feet in the air, from sitting down in a chair, while doing a flip and a turn at the same time. No human has the speed, even if they could anticipate when a bullet was shot and if they had armored gloves on, to catch a bullet: the mythbusters showed us that catching a far slower arrow requires closing the hand more than 5 times faster than a martial arts master. No human can pick up a 240+ pound male, overheard, and toss them out a reinforced plate glass window, with ease, no less.

Originally posted by Newjak
because I've seen the rough equivalent of human beings doing it.

You have not.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Was watching Batman Begins again last night (catching up on the first 2 again before TDKR this wknd) and honestly Batman has better strength and speed feats than Rorschach and NiteOwl.

Possibly. Depends on what you're talking about.

The "one-arm" curl he did in Begins was borderline superhuman.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He lifts Laim Neeson with one arm in a bicep curl motion. The watchmen don't have any lifting feats like that.

Lifting something is not the only measure of strength. I believe this is what you're missing.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And he actually does fight multiple opponents simultaneously. While surrounded and you hardly see him move he's so fast.

lol!

^ In TDK he also bends the end of a rifle.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
^ In TDK he also bends the end of a rifle.
He was using a device to help him do that.

Originally posted by Newjak
He was using a device to help him do that.

Don't tell anyone.

Originally posted by Newjak
He was using a device to help him do that.

Where was that? Looked to me like he just bent it.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Where was that? Looked to me like he just bent it.
It was on his hand. You can clearly see it. It's the same device he uses to slice into the van.

Originally posted by Newjak
It was on his hand. You can clearly see it. It's the same device he uses to slice into the van.

Yeah but how does a cutting device aid in bending something?

if the bending device had a sharp edge....

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah but how does a cutting device aid in bending something?
I don't think it was just a cutting tool. It somehow allowed him to mess with metal something like that.

It was clear he was only able to bend the barrel cause of the device he was using though.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah but how does a cutting device aid in bending something?

It was some sort of powered clamp, you both see and hear it working when he bends the barrel. It also did have an edge along the outer rim (pinky finger area), what he used to stab into and cut the van while hanging on.