Originally posted by ares834
He uses that big ass crystal of his. The one that Aleema later uses to destroy a star.
Sounds like the crystals that I believe power his flagship, the Corsair. I recall Kun mentioning that it has the power to fvck up stars, but then I may be imagining things.
Nvm, it's on the Corsair's wiki page: "Here is the power to wrench fire from the stars."
Originally posted by Arhael
[B]So Bane killing a few random Jedi and Sith around 1000 years in past is badass feats.
But Krayt killing, Abeloth, Jedi, Sith and Imperial Knights, which happens maximum 80 years later is a featless example?
Except two of these Jedi are described as legendary swordsmen. Raskta especially is noted for her nearly unparalleled bladeskill. Even more so it's the way the text describes Bane's attacks that make it impressive. It's the difference in mediums that really makes the difference. Bane is given descriptions of incredible skill and speed, something that comics can't do for Krayt. With that said, I'm not inclined to give Krayt the benefit of the doubt.
Originally posted by Q99
Who are those plenty? There was Luke only apart from her. Tahiri nearly got mind dominated, was easily Force pulled into Abeloth's grasp. If not desire to possess Tahiri's body, there would be no chance. And implications about Saba in all books is that she is powerhouse.
And yet, I wouldn't place Saba on Dooku's level. And Tahiri did do damage. By the same token, if it wasn't for Luke, Krayt wouldn't have stood a chance.
Originally posted by Q99
Indeed, however, considering Kol Skywalker's final performance, Cade shouldn't be much weaker, if any.
Kol isn't Cade. And force power doesn't have to translate down bloodlines. I mean Revan's kid isn't even force sensitive.
Originally posted by Q99
Luke was restrainer and defender, while Krayt - damage dealer. It was Krayt, who drained her. It was Krayt, who pierced his arm into her body and, when he pulled his arm out, her energy began rapidly leaching out. Indeed, Luke did final blow but she would probably die anyway
I'm unimpressed. Hurting some one when they are restrained isn't an amazing feat. And your notion that Abeloth would have died from Krayt's wound is laughably unsupported.
Here is the other image of Sadow performing his Supernova technique. Since it is only his hands, its impossible to see whether he's using his ship to aid him, but he is on the Corsair, so odds are that he was.
Originally posted by ares834
Except two of these Jedi are described as legendary swordsmen. Raskta especially is noted for her nearly unparalleled bladeskill. Even more so it's the way the text describes Bane's attacks that make it impressive. It's the difference in mediums that really makes the difference. Bane is given descriptions of incredible skill and speed, something that comics can't do for Krayt. With that said, I'm not inclined to give Krayt the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, well, that much is very obvious. Give both sides equal benefit, and you'll get a more even picture. Give one side more, then of course they'll do better.
I will note Obi-Wan is a legendary warrior. And Abeloth. And Karness Muur. And even Andeddu had legendary power- his fellow sith had to gang up on him, and he's not even as strong as Wyyrlok.
We don't need pure description either- we have quite a few fights.
Also, Jacen feared his rise in his visions, so Jacen considered him a pretty legendary threat as well, enough that he felt his power as a Jedi wouldn't be close to sufficient and that he had to turn to the dark side.
Regardless, A'Sharad may be from the Jedi's Golden Age but that doesn't make him inherently superior to Bane nor does it make his opponents.
But, it does not make them weaker either, which is what you're basing stuff on.
I'm unimpressed. Hurting some one when they are restrained isn't an amazing feat. And your notion that Abeloth would have died from Krayt's wound is laughably unsupported.
Btw, that's Arhael you're responding to, not me.
And one of the big points of the battle is that neither could've beaten Abeloth solo.
Originally posted by vaderdeljisung
Question: what is more powerful, a supernova or a wormhole?
A wormhole (though I'm sure you mean "Black hole"😉 is the result of a supernova.
Depending on the size, I'd consider a blackhole to be more powerful because it casts it's destructive effects over a wide period of time, whereas the Supernova is more comparatively brief.
A wormhole on the other hand is just a tube that connects space and time, and doesn't necessarily destroy things, like a Black Hole does.
Except two of these Jedi are described as legendary swordsmen. Raskta especially is noted for her nearly unparalleled bladeskill. Even more so it's the way the text describes Bane's attacks that make it impressive. It's the difference in mediums that really makes the difference. Bane is given descriptions of incredible skill and speed, something that comics can't do for Krayt. With that said, I'm not inclined to give Krayt the benefit of the doubt.In other words it's all about being impressed. I don't like Krayt myself and didn't read comics. I actually had the same opinion that he sucks before reading Apocalypse. Before I knew that he couldn't kill Cade even with Vonduun Crab armor on, which supposed to give immense advantage like Obralisk. Yet, from Q99 I found that he actually killed Cade in final battle, which is impressive enough for me.
And yet, I wouldn't place Saba on Dooku's level. And Tahiri did do damage. By the same token, if it wasn't for Luke, Krayt wouldn't have stood a chance.I would place Saba on Windu level. To me her desire to hunt and relishing fight goes in parallel with Windu's Vaapad. But as you said it is all about being impressed.
Kol isn't Cade. And force power doesn't have to translate down bloodlines. I mean Revan's kid isn't even force sensitive.I don't remember book stating that Revan's son wasn't sensitive. I thought Bastilla simply didn't want him to be Jedi. Also, to me Cade's unique ability to heal and the fact that he is the only Jedi, who was able to resist Muur's talisman and destroy it impressed me enough. 😄
I'm unimpressed. Hurting some one when they are restrained isn't an amazing feat. And your notion that Abeloth would have died from Krayt's wound is laughably unsupported.The mere fact that he was able to hurt her at all is already merit of immense power. And as I said he survived her lightning and it went right through him at the beginning of the fight.
My notion is supported by the book:
"Luke left the sentence unfinished as a fountain of oily black Force energy erupted from the protruding wrist. Abeloth's mouth gaped open, and her piercing shriek broke over the lake, reverberating across the water like a clap of thunder. Luke glanced over and saw the stranger standing beside him, pointing in her direction, using the Force to draw his missing hand back toward its stump.
Abeloth did not come dancing in to counterattack, did not even try to stand off defensively and weaken them with a blast of Force lightning. She did not have time for such tactics. Luke doubted she would have fled the battle in the first place if she were not already dying, and with her Force essence gushing out of her like a geyser, she had to attack now.
And she did."
To me it clearly shows that she is already dying. But you of course can pull up trick of dismissing character's opinion and doubts as wrong. 🙂
Originally posted by Q99
Yes, well, that much is very obvious. Give both sides equal benefit, and you'll get a more even picture. Give one side more, then of course they'll do better.
I am giving them the same. Rastka is made out to be a legendary sword master... Those guards Krayt kills are not.
Originally posted by Q99
We don't need pure description either- we have quite a few fights.
It helps though. Descriptions give us examples of speed and strength something comics hardly do.
Originally posted by Q99
Also, Jacen feared his rise in his visions, so Jacen considered him a pretty legendary threat as well, enough that he felt his power as a Jedi wouldn't be close to sufficient and that he had to turn to the dark side.
According to Jacen, Krayt had nothing to do with his decision. It was because he saw Allana allied with Krayt that he chose to embrace the darkness.
Originally posted by Q99
But, it does not make them weaker either, which is what you're basing stuff on.
True. However, we don't know how skilled they are so to use it as an example of Krayt's blade skill is flawed.
Originally posted by Q99
And one of the big points of the battle is that neither could've beaten Abeloth solo.
True. But Luke was pretty much her equal in one of the earlier FotJ books. And he manged to kill her body once on his own (a second one came soon afterwards and overpowered Luke) and later on defeated Abeloth on his own again by ripping Callista from her grasp.
Originally posted by Arhael
Luke was restrainer and defender, while Krayt - damage dealer. It was Krayt, who drained her. It was Krayt, who pierced his arm into her body and, when he pulled his arm out, her energy began rapidly leaching out. Indeed, Luke did final blow but she would probably die anyway
I haven't read any of the novels containing Abeloth, nor do I plan to. But if Luke was the restrainer and defender, wouldn't that mean most of Abeloth's attacks were directed at him? Or how did that fight go down exactly?
Originally posted by Arhael
In other words it's all about being impressed.
Sorta. It's about the feats being impressive. I'm not sure what else one would go on to be honest. Assumptions?
Originally posted by Arhael
The mere fact that he was able to hurt her at all is already merit of immense power. And as I said he survived her lightning and it went right through him at the beginning of the fight.Luke doubted she would have fled the battle in the first place if she were not already dying, and with her Force essence gushing out of her like a geyser, she had to attack now.
To me it clearly shows that she is already dying. But you of course can pull up trick of dismissing character's opinion and doubts as wrong. 🙂
Ah, yes. Still, even if we assume Krayt did give her a mortal blow so to did Saba (who has done nothing compared to Mace "I can match Palpa" Windu) and Tahiri. It's not incredibly impressive.
Originally posted by ares834
Ah, yes. Still, even if we assume Krayt did give her a mortal blow so to did Saba (who has done nothing compared to Mace "I can match Palpa" Windu) and Tahiri. It's not incredibly impressive.
Before I knew that he couldn't kill Cade even with Vonduun Crab armor on, which supposed to give immense advantage like Obralisk.
On that fight, Krayt wanted Cade alive, definitely outmatched him, and Cade only escaped because his mom shot Krayt in the back.
ares834
I am giving them the same. Rastka is made out to be a legendary sword master... Those guards Krayt kills are not.
No, but those were hardly his biggest foes. He's fought plenty of strong people.
Those guards were impressive because of how he did it, he overwhelmed them trivially despite all being full Knights (who tend to be fairly badass) including the Emperor's cousin Mohrgan who was head of the bodyguards and who Roan Fel (a master force user in his own right) thought was strong enough to escape or possibly even win (not knowing Krayt's power specifically but knowing other Sith and such). So three Knights and a Master, and it took Krayt maybe two seconds. Maybe. That'd be generous to them, and 2/3rds the time was just Mohrgan, the other three definitely lasted less than a second despite not being surprised, not having their guard down, and not being in a disadvantaged position.
Anyway, we've talked about legendary people he has fought. This is going more to the 'you hold them to different standards' thing. When you heard Bane's legendary foes, you leap to Rastka. When you heard Krayt's, you leap to the ones he took out in an eyeblink and not his actual most powerful and most legendary foes.