Abeloth -vs- Darth Nihilus

Originally posted by Q99
Anyway, we've talked about legendary people he has fought. This is going more to the 'you hold them to different standards' thing. When you hear Bane's legendary foes, you leap to Rastka. When you hear Krayt's, you leap to the ones he took out in an eyeblink and not his actual most powerful and most legendary foes.

During that whole section of the argument we were referring to the guards... At least, that's what I assumed you were referring too the sorta one off characters like Raskta and such. Anyway, the legendary foes Krayt has beat, not lost to, on his own don't really match up to Kas'im.

Originally posted by ares834
Anyway, the legendary foes Krayt has beat, not lost to, on his own don't really match up to Kas'im.

Wyyrlok has lethorns not lekku. And everyone knows that lekku>lethorns.

😠

Whose is longer, though? 😉

Sorta. It's about the feats being impressive. I'm not sure what else one would go on to be honest. Assumptions?

Logically extrapolated power based on feats? "This force user was close to Obi-Wan with a saber, then became, clearly and obviously, several times more powerful and gained a ton of spiffy abilities, some of which require great strength in the force and which only one Sith, Plaguies has even come close to reaching his level in."

Originally posted by ares834
During that whole section of the argument we were referring to the guards... At least, that's what I assumed you were referring too the sorta one off characters like Raskta and such.

I was saying that with Krayt we overall have more information on his foes, not playing a game of 'who can find the foe with the least knowledge about them.'

I'm sure Bane's killed people who we know nothing about, but it'd be silly to bring them up.

Anyway, the legendary foes Krayt has beat, not lost to, on his own don't really match up to Kas'im.

I'll point out we really don't know anyone else Kas'im beat, and while he is incredibly strong with a sword, he's a lot less so outside of it, so who's to say how he'd do against a powerful foe who was highly skilled in force illusion?

And I will note, Kas'im put Bane on the defensive in saber, one on one. Krayt was never put on the defensive with sabers, ever, by anyone, after Obi-wan.

Originally posted by Q99
Logically extrapolated power based on feats? "This force user was close to Obi-Wan with a saber, then became, clearly and obviously, several times more powerful and gained a ton of spiffy abilities, some of which require great strength in the force and which only one Sith, Plaguies has even come close to reaching his level in."

And yet, mastery of dark essence does not translate into greater mastery of the saber.

Originally posted by Q99
I was saying that with Krayt we overall have more information on his foes, not playing a game of 'who can find the foe with the least knowledge about them.'

I'm sure Bane's killed people who we know nothing about, but it'd be silly to bring them up.

I was not the one who brought up the guards way back at the beginning of the argument.

Originally posted by Q99
And I will note, Kas'im put Bane on the defensive in saber, one on one. Krayt was never put on the defensive with sabers, ever, by anyone, after Obi-wan.

Which doesn't translate Krayt into being a greater swordsmen than Bane. Simply being the best in one's era does not mean they can defeat or even match the best in others.

Bane has a weakness to double lightsabers that Kas'im created especially when training him (and all his students) so he could exploit. Outside of that Bane was winning.

This might be an advantage for Krayt though, if we assume that Bane hasn't filling that gap in his ability yet.

Originally posted by ares834
And yet, mastery of dark essence does not translate into greater mastery of the saber.

No, but when one is a master of the saber to begin with, more power in the force does help. As does more training and experience, and shatterpoints, an ability that's directly helpful in saber fights.

I was not the one who brought up the guards way back at the beginning of the argument.

But that wasn't the argument thread being responded to.

See, that's my point- when I respond to one thing, you jump to another. Yea, there's always going to be some incident that doesn't support a particular point, but what's the point in focusing on them instead of the ones which do? Trying to only compare Krayt's weakest feats to Bane's strongest is an exercise in moving around arguments, not really in who's stronger.

Which doesn't translate Krayt into being a greater swordsmen than Bane. Simply being the best in one's era does not mean they can defeat or even match the best in others.

I didn't say he was greater, just that I don't think Bane's necessarily better, not in any way that can be demonstrated from the feats. Krayt dominated pretty much everyone from his era in sabers. He has done nothing that indicates he's weaker (in his most mature form), and has enough saber feats under his belt, most obviously a very high starting line, to indicate he is way up there.

Originally posted by Q99
Logically extrapolated power based on feats? "This force user was close to Obi-Wan with a saber, then became, clearly and obviously, several times more powerful and gained a ton of spiffy abilities, some of which require great strength in the force and which only one Sith, Plaguies has even come close to reaching his level in."

Originally posted by Q99
No, but when one is a master of the saber to begin with, more power in the force does help. As does more training and experience, and shatterpoints, an ability that's directly helpful in saber fights.

I have no doubt that Krayt's saber skills were greater at the end of his rebirth. The problem is we don't know how greater they are.

Originally posted by Q99
But that wasn't the argument thread being responded to.

See, that's my point- when I respond to one thing, you jump to another. Yea, there's always going to be some incident that doesn't support a particular point, but what's the point in focusing on them instead of the ones which do? Trying to only compare Krayt's weakest feats to Bane's strongest is an exercise in moving around arguments, not really in who's stronger.

I'm not comparing his weakest feats to Bane's greatest feats. You claimed that Krayt killed several Jedi, Sith, and Imperial Knights. However, the only ones (I can recall) we actually see him kill in a duel are those Guards and Wyyrlok.

Originally posted by Q99
I didn't say he was greater, just that I don't think Bane's necessarily better, not in any way that can be demonstrated from the feats. Krayt dominated pretty much everyone from his era in sabers. He has done nothing that indicates he's weaker (in his most mature form), and has enough saber feats under his belt, most obviously a very high starting line, to indicate he is way up there.

I'm not saying there is anything that shows he is weaker, but rather nothing that shows he is close to Bane's level. For example, it is said that Bane moves so fast in one duel that it appears he is wielding a dozen lightsaber. Krayt, however, has no feats that give him a considerable speed.

In other words, we don't know. Both of you are impressed by either character. They are both all POWAH, so fight between them would be more or less equal. End of story. 🙂
In any case Lekku with claws (lethorns) are cooler!

No but seriously, Nihilus would easily crush Bane and Krayt. At the same time. While fapping under his robe to his zombified homie choking and beating an old woman.

Any thread that involves Nihilus just turns into people who like him saying how amazing he is nowadays. I mean really, 2 years ago, almost all the same people were on, and yet its now that people want to start going all, "OMG LoOk @t h0w ub3r he iz LULZZZZZZZ"

Tbh, Nihilus threads get stupid after the first opinions are posted.

Troy Denning is the only author I know to portray Force drain. Lomi Plo was another character, her ability to drain energy from devices was obvious, however, to conclude that she was indeed draining Luke took me finding passages of all three fights before Luke got read of his doubts.
He never described it as drain technique, just cold ache, cold weight, chill ache and cold knot in his stomach or chest. Similar to Apocalypse's cold twinge, cold sting and cold void.

Only this quote seems to prove it:
"And there was more, a stillness so fixed it was frozen, a cold hole that seemed to be drawing the Force into it."

Originally posted by Pwned
Any thread that involves Nihilus just turns into people who like him saying how amazing he is nowadays. I mean really, 2 years ago, almost all the same people were on, and yet its now that people want to start going all, "OMG LoOk @t h0w ub3r he iz LULZZZZZZZ"

Tbh, Nihilus threads get stupid after the first opinions are posted.

Originally posted by Pwned
Any thread that involves Nihilus just turns into people who like him saying how amazing he is nowadays. I mean really, 2 years ago, almost all the same people were on, and yet its now that people want to start going all, "OMG LoOk @t h0w ub3r he iz LULZZZZZZZ"

Tbh, Nihilus threads get stupid after the first opinions are posted.

Basically, without Gideon counterspellingchanting against the Ravager feat, he does get to look pretty good.

That said, there isn't a lot of value to be gained from pitting him against every single character ever; even I'm starting to get bored by N. threads.

I'm more interested in figuring out how powerful Krayt is atm. Since it isn't just redoing the same argument over and over.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Here is the other image of Sadow performing his Supernova technique. Since it is only his hands, its impossible to see whether he's using his ship to aid him, but he is on the Corsair, so odds are that he was.

But we know that when he sues the ship he used the crytals and energy channeled between both his hands and the crystals whereas here it is purely just his hands closing. The artost makes no effort to convey that he is using his ship or a crystal or anything, so I am inclined to think that he can do it without the ship.

So Naga Sadow could possibly very well be the most powerful Force User ever when you think about it... if making a sun go supernova really is all that powerful.

Nope, both pics are referring to the same exact event. Notice, that in the one you are referring the stars he blows up are the Denarii Stars. Guess which stars he destabilizes in GoaTS when he is clearly tapping into the power of the crystal... Yep, the Denarii Stars.

Well then in the case of two sources contradicting the newer one takes president and so in this case DLotS retcons FotSE.