Madara Uchiha vs Monster Aizen

Originally posted by yungz22
You literally argue yourself into circles first you say were supposed to make assumptions about things the you say we have to have evidence which one is more important?

You didnt even read what i said i didnt even ask any questions.

Also ive made no assumptions im going by exact words stated about both techniques in both manga.

And again your logic goes both ways because you have yet to show any evidence that aizen does what YOU assume it does. We have more evidence than you because chasedown showed exact words stated by aizen himself from the source material.

Read my earlier post which you so quickly looked over and you will see why your made up similarity rule doesnt work.

Again, you're misinterpreting scans. The demonstration Aizen gave to the lieutenants was admittedly a sham. Either way, they still need energy/reiatsu to use sword techniques. That is fact.

I gave evidence. The fact that Aizen's sword ability uses reiatsu, and that any sword ability can be negated by overwhelming reiatsu. This amounts to indisputable similarities in Kyoka's hypnosis and genjutsu. Now, we can safely assume that Kyoka can be negated by sharingan because of the simple fact that it is hypnosis just the same as genjutsu. It's not my fault you're too stupid to know what a hypothesis is.

I'm going to say this one more time. Show me Aizen saying his sword doesn't use reiatsu to activate, otherwise it falls into the category that all swords do, which DOES use reiatsu. If you can't, which you can't, then you're wrong, and this argument is through. Simple as that.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Again, you're misinterpreting scans. The demonstration Aizen gave to the lieutenants was admittedly a sham. Either way, they still need energy/reiatsu to use sword techniques. That is fact.

I gave evidence. The fact that Aizen's sword ability uses reiatsu, and that any sword ability can be negated by overwhelming reiatsu. This amounts to indisputable similarities in Kyoka's hypnosis and genjutsu. Now, we can safely assume that Kyoka can be negated by sharingan because of the simple fact that it is hypnosis just the same as genjutsu. It's not my fault you're too stupid to know what a hypothesis is.

I'm going to say this one more time. Show me Aizen saying his sword doesn't use reiatsu to activate, otherwise it falls into the category that all swords do, which DOES use reiatsu. If you can't, which you can't, then you're wrong, and this argument is through. Simple as that.

He lied to the liutenants saying it was a water type zanpaktou but he revealed the true nature of his zanpaktou because he knew that there was nothing they could do.which is what chasedown showed earlier. "Kyoka suigetsu is absolutely flawless."

Just because aizen's sword uses reatsu to release doesnt mean he inserts his energy into other opponents cmon gogeta.

And yamamoto is stronger than aizen. Matter of fact ges the strongest being in soul society."in over a millenia no shinigami within the sereitei is stronger than me." This statement has been backed up countless times by other characters including to extremely strong main villians. so that is debunked. Its already been stated within the manga on more than one occasion.

Even you said the vizards are stronger than yamajii(you must be crazy but for the sake of argument) and they havent seen through kyoka.

They are both hypnosis but the difference is the way they work. Genjutsu manipulates the opponents energy in order to work while kyoka is more along the lines of a geass because it is sensory manipulation. That is why sharingan can not see through kyoka because it only has the ability to see through energy manipulation.

This is the reason why people say kyoka is so hax.

Energy manipulation and sensory manipulation are not the same.

The sharingan is not absolute madara has been fooled by clones.
Genjutsu is not absolute either because there are plenty of ways to get through it

Originally posted by yungz22
He lied to the liutenants saying it was a water type zanpaktou but he revealed the true nature of his zanpaktou because he knew that there was nothing they could do.which is what chasedown showed earlier. "Kyoka suigetsu is absolutely flawless."

Just because aizen's sword uses reatsu to release doesnt mean he inserts his energy into other opponents cmon gogeta.

And yamamoto is stronger than aizen. Matter of fact ges the strongest being in soul society."in over a millenia no shinigami within the sereitei is stronger than me." This statement has been backed up countless times by other characters including to extremely strong main villians. so that is debunked. Its already been stated within the manga on more than one occasion.

Even you said the vizards are stronger than yamajii(you must be crazy but for the sake of argument) and they havent seen through kyoka.

They are both hypnosis but the difference is the way they work. Genjutsu manipulates the opponents energy in order to work while kyoka is more along the lines of a geass because it is sensory manipulation. That is why sharingan can not see through kyoka because it only has the ability to see through energy manipulation.

This is the reason why people say kyoka is so hax.

Energy manipulation and sensory manipulation are not the same.

The sharingan is not absolute madara has been fooled by clones.
Genjutsu is not absolute either because there are plenty of ways to get through it

Your entire argument is based on the false premise that, for some reason, all genjutsu does is manipulate someone's energy. Why do you think they are called illusions in the first place? Puppet jutsu is completely different. I mean, just look at Itachi's explanation of tsukiyomi. He can control an opponents senses, but also THEIR LITERAL PERCEPTION OF REALITY.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu

Since you put so much emphasis on wiki's, let me throw one at ya. Again, Kyoka manipulates someones senses through reiatsu, and genjutsu does it through chakra. The energy equivalency rule ties in, therefor, and they both control senses through the use of energy, meaning they are BOTH THE SAME THING.

Now since you've failed for the umpteenth time now, to post something saying that Aizen 1. Doesn't use reiatsu to use kyoka, or 2. Uses it in a way completely different to genjutsu, this argument is over.

Anyone with sharingan can shit out of kyoka. Get over it.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Your entire argument is based on the false premise that, for some reason, all genjutsu does is manipulate someone's energy. Why do you think they are called illusions in the first place? Puppet jutsu is completely different. I mean, just look at Itachi's explanation of tsukiyomi. He can control an opponents senses, but also THEIR LITERAL PERCEPTION OF REALITY.

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu

Since you put so much emphasis on wiki's, let me throw one at ya. Again, Kyoka manipulates someones senses through reiatsu, and genjutsu does it through chakra. The energy equivalency rule ties in, therefor, and they both control senses through the use of energy, meaning they are BOTH THE SAME THING.

Now since you've failed for the umpteenth time now, to post something saying that Aizen 1. Doesn't use reiatsu to use kyoka, or 2. Uses it in a way completely different to genjutsu, this argument is over.

Anyone with sharingan can shit out of kyoka. Get over it.

False premise?
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-264-10/naruto/chapter-259.html

http://www.mangapanda.com/93-264-9/naruto/chapter-259.html

The kyoka explanation is totally different then that. Kyoka is like geass. Both control sensory and dont insert there energy.

Nowhere does aizen say what you say it does. You cant add stuff on to kyoka that wasnt stated in the manga. Nowhere does aizen say i insert my energy into my opponents. If it did that then he would have said it. Aizen is a very cocky and confident individual who is the wielder of kyoka knows its workings and believes it is absolute

Madara has been fooled by clones before and kyoka is way more advanced then a clone. Kyoka will fool him too

kyoka suigetsu....... madara has way more dc capabilities but kyoka gives aizen the edge. total sensory manipulation

Originally posted by socool8520
Mu is able to dodge better than most because he is a sensory type. He doesn't really have to be that fast because he senses it coming. These scans only prove that he can sense things better than the other kages. Same with the Naruto feat. Even Oonoki inferred it was because he was a sensor. As for the Madara and Muu movement thing, I don't really see how that equates to Madara being faster. They jumped in oppsite directions.

This doesn't prove much. A was moving downwards. So he was coming down as fast as gravity allows. That's shit compared to most speed feat in the Manga. i would have been more impressed with the sand blocking Gaara from being hit with a kick from 5 gates Lee.

I find this example to be much different than what you are comparing with Madara. This guy is moving so fast they can't react at all.

Originally posted by socool8520
Mu is able to dodge better than most because he is a sensory type. He doesn't really have to be that fast because he senses it coming. These scans only prove that he can sense things better than the other kages. Same with the Naruto feat. Even Oonoki inferred it was because he was a sensor. As for the Madara and Muu movement thing, I don't really see how that equates to Madara being faster. They jumped in oppsite directions.

This doesn't prove much. A was moving downwards. So he was coming down as fast as gravity allows. That's shit compared to most speed feat in the Manga. i would have been more impressed with the sand blocking Gaara from being hit with a kick from 5 gates Lee.

I find this example to be much different than what you are comparing with Madara. This guy is moving so fast they can't react at all.

Originally posted by naurtoisbeast
i think madara will win here

lol you never input anything your self to back up your claims

Is he a bot or troll or something? I'm surprised he didn't double quote this one. Guess it was too long.

Monster Aizen didn't have his sword...

Do people seriously believes Aizen last less than a second?

Madara has Aizen beat in all stats, period.

Also the whole Madara being fooled by clones things only happened with Naruto. Its specifically explained that the Kage Bushin divides the users chakra evenly. That's why he wae fouled by Naruto.

It was proven correct when he fought Harashima , he was able to tell the difference.

Originally posted by SquallX
Do people seriously believes Aizen last less than a second?

Madara has Aizen beat in all stats, period.

Also the whole Madara being fooled by clones things only happened with Naruto. Its specifically explained that the Kage Bushin divides the users chakra evenly. That's why he wae fouled by Naruto.

It was proven correct when he fought Harashima , he was able to tell the difference.

regardless he was fooled by a clone lol what you just said is irrelavant do you honestly think a clone is more effective than kyoka suigetsu....

also question how will madara get out of kyoka?

For the same reason Nigeki Kessatsu doesn't work on Aizen--a battle between Shinigami is one of power, the gap between Madara and he is entirely too vast. Not to mention how Aizen never seems to use it against Ichigo.

Madara drops a meteor on him.

Madara wins ima fan of both but.....man aizen gets rekt.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
For the same reason Nigeki Kessatsu doesn't work on Aizen--a battle between Shinigami is one of power, the gap between Madara and he is entirely too vast. Not to mention how Aizen never seems to use it against Ichigo.

Madara drops a meteor on him.

ichigo is person aizen manipulated all of soul society for hundreds of years.

honestly we all know the reason he never used it on ichigo is a combination of pis and that every time ichigo and aizen fought except that last time aizen was vastly stronger than him he didnt need kyoka to beat ichigo at the time

also kyoka cant be powered out of yama ji(the strongest being in soul society) is stronger than aizen admitted by aizen himself and yama didnt power put of it.

Originally posted by chasedown
regardless he was fooled by a clone lol what you just said is irrelavant do you honestly think a clone is more effective than kyoka suigetsu....

also question how will madara get out of kyoka?

Statement from Zetsu, proven by genjutsu battle:

A pro with a stone can beat a novice with a shuriken.

In short, the tools don't matter. Even when it comes to illusion, if someone is stronger than the caster, they can shrug it off.

You don't seriously believe that Aizen could cast Kyoka on someone like Galactus or the Beyonder, do you?

Originally posted by chasedown
ichigo is person aizen manipulated all of soul society for hundreds of years.

honestly we all know the reason he never used it on ichigo is a combination of pis and that every time ichigo and aizen fought except that last time aizen was vastly stronger than him he didnt need kyoka to beat ichigo at the time

also kyoka cant be powered out of yama ji(the strongest being in soul society) is stronger than aizen admitted by aizen himself and yama didnt power put of it.

Kyoka can't be powered out of by Yamamoto. He's not even comparable to a zero division captain, making that irrelevant. If you think that Ichibe Hiyosei, who overpowered the technique of Juha Bach, can't overpower Kyoka, then you're even dumber than we all think you are.

Originally posted by socool8520
Mu is able to dodge better than most because he is a sensory type. He doesn't really have to be that fast because he senses it coming. These scans only prove that he can sense things better than the other kages. Same with the Naruto feat. Even Oonoki inferred it was because he was a sensor. As for the Madara and Muu movement thing, I don't really see how that equates to Madara being faster. They jumped in oppsite directions.

This doesn't prove much. A was moving downwards. So he was coming down as fast as gravity allows. That's shit compared to most speed feat in the Manga. i would have been more impressed with the sand blocking Gaara from being hit with a kick from 5 gates Lee.

I find this example to be much different than what you are comparing with Madara. This guy is moving so fast they can't react at all.

Originally posted by socool8520
Mu is able to dodge better than most because he is a sensory type. He doesn't really have to be that fast because he senses it coming. These scans only prove that he can sense things better than the other kages. Same with the Naruto feat. Even Oonoki inferred it was because he was a sensor. As for the Madara and Muu movement thing, I don't really see how that equates to Madara being faster. They jumped in oppsite directions.

This doesn't prove much. A was moving downwards. So he was coming down as fast as gravity allows. That's shit compared to most speed feat in the Manga. i would have been more impressed with the sand blocking Gaara from being hit with a kick from 5 gates Lee.

I find this example to be much different than what you are comparing with Madara. This guy is moving so fast they can't react at all.

Madara summons a meteor and kills Aizen. .-.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Madara summons a meteor and kills Aizen. .-.

👆

Originally posted by socool8520
Mu is able to dodge better than most because he is a sensory type. He doesn't really have to be that fast because he senses it coming. These scans only prove that he can sense things better than the other kages. Same with the Naruto feat. Even Oonoki inferred it was because he was a sensor. As for the Madara and Muu movement thing, I don't really see how that equates to Madara being faster. They jumped in oppsite directions.

This doesn't prove much. A was moving downwards. So he was coming down as fast as gravity allows. That's shit compared to most speed feat in the Manga. i would have been more impressed with the sand blocking Gaara from being hit with a kick from 5 gates Lee.

I find this example to be much different than what you are comparing with Madara. This guy is moving so fast they can't react at all.

Originally posted by socool8520
Mu is able to dodge better than most because he is a sensory type. He doesn't really have to be that fast because he senses it coming. These scans only prove that he can sense things better than the other kages. Same with the Naruto feat. Even Oonoki inferred it was because he was a sensor. As for the Madara and Muu movement thing, I don't really see how that equates to Madara being faster. They jumped in oppsite directions.

This doesn't prove much. A was moving downwards. So he was coming down as fast as gravity allows. That's shit compared to most speed feat in the Manga. i would have been more impressed with the sand blocking Gaara from being hit with a kick from 5 gates Lee.

I find this example to be much different than what you are comparing with Madara. This guy is moving so fast they can't react at all.