Baleman vs Black Widow.

Originally posted by Psychotron
People don't fight as well when they're not in their right mind

You have no proof to validate this. At what point was it implied in The Avengers that Hawkeye lost any skill because of his mind control? Matter of fact, he was kicking a lot of ass when he was pwning the Helicarrier.

Matter of fact, the mind control has no affect on their psychological skills at all, as evidenced at the beginning, when Clint, despite being mind-controlled, could still deduce that Fury was trying to stall so he could collapse the building

It seems like you are reaching......

Originally posted by Nephthys
14 is legal? Where do you live, Japan?

A lot of the Slavic countries have really young AoC. Pedos love that.

Technically at that age it would be closer to Ephebophiles, not Pedos, but huh, I didn't know that.

Maybe its just me but I prefer my sex symbols with skin.

Originally posted by ares834
[B]They could have been doesn't cut it.

Bane. Even if it was through ripping apart his mask, Batman beat Bane in H2H.

Show me Bane's screen feats!

Pedos, dude.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Corect. There is no reason to assume that ninjas are amazing fighters just because they're ninjas. Show me their screen feats please!

Did I say they were amazing fighters? No. However, logically they would be greater than mobsters who we have no reason to believe are competent in H2H.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Batman got his back broken by Bane in H2H.

Show me Bane's screen feats!

And then in their re-fight beat Bane.

Originally posted by Nephthys
14 is legal? Where do you live, Japan?

As I recall random professor guy completely shook it off at the end whereas Barton needed an introduction to a railing. Either way, theres no indication that he was impaired, plus he had advantages in that fight anyway. IIRC he used his bow and a knife to try and kill her while she was strictly H2H while only trying to incapacitate him.

Not Japan. Anyway, I was only joking, 15-16 is fine, but 14 is a little too young.

Random professor guy had much more time to resist the effects of the mind-control. Also, isn't Barton supposed to be trained to resist physical and mental torture. It's unlikely he wouldn't resist to at least some degree. And it's not like Barton has any H2H feats either.

You didn't pay attention.

1) That mind-control was magical in nature (ie technology so advanced it seems like magic)

2) Hawkeye does have H2H feats

Batman did take on a S.W.A.T team prior to the Bane fight IIRC. Besides if Ras was able to give Batman a good fight when he was in shape w/o any fancy gadgets, then I'd argue that Natasha could certainly do better.

Also Batman didn't really get the upper hand in that fight until he used the mask weakness. So overall I say Black Widow wins.

Originally posted by ares834

And then in their re-fight beat Bane.

In the refight Batman was still getting his ass handed to him. They locked punches again and Batman was AGAIN overpowered, this time he just head butted him.

The whole fight was him on the defensive getting his ass whopped and swinging for the mask. Bane wasn't even guarding the mask.

On topic Black Widow wins.

No, rewatch the fight. Batman forces Bane's hand away and then uppercuts him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QkAEe6GZh8

Originally posted by Psychotron
Not Japan. Anyway, I was only joking, 15-16 is fine, but 14 is a little too young.

Random professor guy had much more time to resist the effects of the mind-control. Also, isn't Barton supposed to be trained to resist physical and mental torture. It's unlikely he wouldn't resist to at least some degree. And it's not like Barton has any H2H feats either.

Much more time as in.... a few extra hours? Dude, theres nothing showing that Barton was affected by it. Lestov16 is right, you're reaching.

Originally posted by ares834
No, rewatch the fight. Batman forces Bane's hand away and then uppercuts him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QkAEe6GZh8

You can see Bane forcing Batmans hand away right before Batman swings for his mask with his other hand

That's clearly with his left hand.

Originally posted by Robtard
You didn't pay attention.

1) That mind-control was magical in nature (ie technology so advanced it seems like magic)

2) Hawkeye does have H2H feats

Being magical in nature is irrelevant. We know for a fact that he doesn't want to kill her, and we know a normal guy without any training can resist the staff's influence to a degree. 2+2=?

Aside from fighting Widow? Remind me.

Originally posted by ares834
[B]Did I say they were amazing fighters? No. However, logically they would be greater than mobsters who we have no reason to believe are competent in H2H.

Screen feats for the ninja please!

And then in their re-fight beat Bane.

Actually, Catwoman defeated Bane. IIRC Batman was lying on the ground soaking in a puddle of his own blood. I mean, as long as we're ignoring context here.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Being magical in nature is irrelevant.

Lol. No. No it isn't. It's VERY relevant. It means that we can not discern it's nature, and are unable to determine whether it's effects dampen neurological processes. However, given how much ass Hawkeye kicked while under mind-control, it's not likely

Originally posted by Psychotron
We know for a fact that he doesn't want to kill her,

Mind control does that...

Originally posted by Psychotron
and we know a normal guy without any training can resist the staff's influence to a degree.

He didn't resist the staff. IIRC he got knocked the phuck out when Tony tried to shoot the tesseract

Originally posted by Psychotron
2+2=?

Fish.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Aside from fighting Widow? Remind me.

WTFpwning the helicarrier. If your supposed "Mind Control Malfunction" was true, then Hawkeye should not have had the skill to make that nigh-impossible shot he made to the Helicarrier. Just like he wouldn't have been able to deduce Fury's stalling.

Originally posted by Psychotron
Also, isn't Barton supposed to be trained to resist physical and mental torture. It's unlikely he wouldn't resist to at least some degree.

lol at you for trying to strawman the interrogation techniques of earth when it's clearly not comparable to extraterrestrial technology

Originally posted by Psychotron
And it's not like Barton has any H2H feats either.

He had the fight scene with Widow, which was wayyy better choreographed than any in the DK trilogy

The mind control has no affect on the character's physical or psychological abilities, and you are trying to use it as a strawman to downplay Hawkeye, so you can use that as a strawman to downplay Widow.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Lol. No. No it isn't. It's VERY relevant. It means that we can not discern it's nature, and are unable to determine whether it's effects dampen neurological processes. However, given how much ass Hawkeye kicked while under mind-control, it's not likely

Mind control does that...

He didn't resist the staff. IIRC he got knocked the phuck out when Tony tried to shoot the tesseract

Fish.

WTFpwning the helicarrier. If your supposed "Mind Control Malfunction" was true, then Hawkeye should not have had the skill to make that nigh-impossible shot he made to the Helicarrier. Just like he wouldn't have been able to deduce Fury's stalling.

lol at you for trying to strawman the interrogation techniques of earth when it's clearly not comparable to [b] extraterrestrial technology

He had the fight scene with Widow, which was wayyy better choreographed than any in the DK trilogy

The mind control has no affect on the character's physical or psychological abilities, and you are trying to use it as a strawman to downplay Hawkeye, so you can use that as a strawman to downplay Widow. [/B]

He didn't want to kill her subconsciously is what I mean.

He'd been building a plot device button the whole time he was working for Loki.

I'm not saying Hawkeye was completely inept, but there's no way he was 100%.

Oh, yeah. Super-advanced alien tech - cured by a bump on the head.

I know you're joking now. Widow's fight scenes are easily among the worst in all of superhero movies. Women are never going to be taken seriously as on-screen fighters as long as they keep hiring actresses with no skill like ScarJo. And what are you trying to prove here? Widow can fight Hawkeye so she's good, we know Hawkeye's good because he can fight Widow?

Originally posted by Psychotron
He didn't want to kill her subconsciously is what I mean.

But he got damn near close....

Originally posted by Psychotron
He'd been building a plot device button the whole time he was working for Loki.

I thought he built it already for Loki, and was just able to utilize it because he wasn't mind-controlled anymore

Originally posted by Psychotron
I'm not saying Hawkeye was completely inept, but there's no way he was 100%.

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that. Other than following Loki's orders, I did not see Clint impaired any way, physically or psychologically

Originally posted by Psychotron
Oh, yeah. Super-advanced alien tech - cured by a bump on the head.

So?

Originally posted by Psychotron
Widow's fight scenes are easily among the worst in all of superhero movies.

I know you're joking now 😂

You mean to tell me that this

YouTube video

is better choreographed than this?

lol no

Originally posted by Psychotron
Women are never going to be taken seriously as on-screen fighters as long as they keep hiring actresses with no skill like ScarJo.

Blame the fight choreographer. Not the actress. And her fight scenes were a shit load more entertaining than Baleman's

Originally posted by Psychotron
And what are you trying to prove here? Widow can fight Hawkeye so she's good, we know Hawkeye's good because he can fight Widow?

I've already proven that Widow (and Hawkeye) are far better combatants than Baleman and his unagile slowness